I was wondering if a treachery card comes out with surge and a when revealed effect is their an opportunity to use both Eleanor and Minas Tirith Lampwright's response effects?
Eleanor and Minas Tirith Lampwright responses
Yes, there are no rules that limit the amount of effects you can use a turn, at least not that I know of. just to let you know, response comes AFTER when revealed if I remember correctly, so Eleanor would exhaust first, although don't know that that would matter
Edited by SauronTheGreatWhen revealed would come before surge. If Eleanor exhausts to cancel the when revealed, then the card is discarded and another is drawn, since the card would then be in the discard pile would lampwright still be able to respond to the surge?
NM: Something I overlooked the first time reading this FAQ
Q: If Eleanor (CORE 8) is used to cancel the “when
revealed” effects of a treachery card, are any surge or
doomed keywords on that card also canceled?
A: No. Eleanor only cancels the “when revealed”
effects of the treachery card. Any surge or doomed
keywords on the card resolve before the new
(replacement) card is revealed.
Eleanor would cancel the when revealed but before it is discarded lampwright would have a chance to discard the next card from surge (if you guess the type correcly). Then one more card would be revealed for Eleanor's cancel and redraw effect. The wording on Eleanor's card is confusing because it suggests you discard and redraw but still apply the surge. Since the card would be out of play Lampwright I assumed can't target it. But after further review he can as FAQ says card isn't discarded until the surged card is drawn (2nd card) and then finally original card is cancelled discarded and redrawn (3rd card)
Note: Lampwright's ability does NOT cancel the Surge ability. It merely discards the next revealed card if it matches the specified type and is triggered by the appearance of the surge keyword. Essentially it can "treat the symptom" of the surge keyword (get rid of the new card), but doesn't "treat the problem" (prevent the card from being revealed in the first place).
Here's how it would work:
- Treachery Revealed
- Use Lampwright's ability (says " After an encounter card with surge is revealed " and Eleanor says "Exhaust Eleanor to cancel the 'when revealed' effects of a treachery card just revealed ", so I think they have the same timing) and discard him to name a card type.
- Use Eleanor's ability to cancel the When Revealed effect, then draw a card to replace it. If the replacement card matches the specified type, discard it without resolving its effects.
- Surge effect happens, bringing in a new encounter card comes into play unharmed by Eleanor or the Lampwright.
OR
- Treachery Revealed
- Use Eleanor's ability to cancel the When Revealed effect, then draw a card to replace it. Resolve the new card's effects if applicable.
- Use Lampwright's ability, triggered by the now discarded treachery (or the replacement card), to discard him and name a card type.
- Resolve the original surge effect, drawing a new encounter card. If the revealed card matches the named type, discard it without resolving its effects.
- If the replacement card had surge, it resolves now, unhindered.
I actually am not sure which Surge effect would happen first, but the net effect is the same. I prefer the first version. Things can get really complicated if you have 2 Lampwrights and 2 of the resolved cards have surge. With the second set of steps, the two Lampwrights could potentially end up cancelling the same card, so I'd definitely stick with the first set of steps if you have 2 Lampwrights in play.
The FAQ says if Eleanor's ability cancels a treachery's when revealed and that treachery has surge, the surge would be applied before the replacement card so
-Eleanor cancels a when revealed
-Surge is applied and the card is not yet discarded and replaced because more effects (surge) must be resolved
-Lampwright may attempt to discard the next card
-Eleanor's replacement card is revealed after the surged card
Edited by midwestborn86