My PCs are at the level now where it makes less sense for their enemies to send a handful of guys, and more a squad (being Eight or so guys) of their best and deadliest to deal with these Inquisitorial upstarts.

It can make combat a bit of a drag when there enemy presence outweighs the PCs in such a way and I was wondering if there were some more suitable options to deal with this?

My first thought was the Horde rules from Black Crusade. Then I remembered that the Horde Rules exist primarily to challenge Astartes level players and my gang aren't quite up to that calibre yet.

Has anyone ever come up with a toned down version of Horde rules, or some alternative that allows for a relative sized body of NPCs to be dealt with in a shorter space of time?

I haven't played a 40k that required horde rules, so I can't really speak to that.

Edge of the Empire has a good squad system, though. Basically, your group of mooks acts in 1 initiative slot, has wounds equal to the number of mooks times the wound count for whatever they are, and when they attack as a group they get attack bonuses (which roughly translates to +1 damage per mook). Wounds are applied to them as a group, and every time you hit a multiple of the wound count, one of them drops and so do their bonuses (this also allows you to kill multiple mooks in one attack if you hit for a lot of damage).

Or if you actually want to STAY with the 40k system, OW: Enemies of the Imperium has what are called "formation" rules. I think you'll find this is what you're looking for! Hope it helps!

Or if you actually want to STAY with the 40k system, OW: Enemies of the Imperium has what are called "formation" rules. I think you'll find this is what you're looking for! Hope it helps!

I believe that sounds like what I'm looking for. I should've known to check Only War for squad based shenanigans!

I've been trying to whip up some rules for squads slightly more oriented towards replicating the tabletop and its armies' organisation, and come up with a system using a less abstracted method of resolving group combat than vague if versatile Magnitude values and (my personal pet peeve) "magic" d10 damage bonuses.

As of yet, this is still fairly bare-bones and needs playtesting, but if you are looking for something in-between individual enemies and Hordes, maybe you can take a look:

If it is only eight or so guys, I don't see much reason to use squad or horde rules - although they certainly help when up against forty or so trained killers. (The group broke into a black-site-style prison where heretics were interrogated, long story. Moral: do not trust Dowsing to lead directly to the enemies' headquarters every time.)

All joking aside, I would recommend using the squad rules from Enemies of the Imperium to calculate attacks and shooting, thus making the fight faster, but do not make the squad members one-shot-killed minions unless you want a pushover for the group. If the assailants are to appear as dangerous enemies, they need those wounds.

I've been trying to whip up some rules for squads slightly more oriented towards replicating the tabletop and its armies' organisation, and come up with a system using a less abstracted method of resolving group combat than vague if versatile Magnitude values and (my personal pet peeve) "magic" d10 damage bonuses.

As of yet, this is still fairly bare-bones and needs playtesting, but if you are looking for something in-between individual enemies and Hordes, maybe you can take a look:

Basics

A Squad may consist of 5-10 soldiers and must include a Squad Leader. The Squad Leader may be one of the NPCs, or one of the player characters who took command of the unit. If they are a player character or a particularly important NPC, the Squad Leader is treated as an individual character, whereas their Squad always acts as a single entity attached to its leader.

Each Squaddie has a defensive value which is calculated by adding up their Toughness Bonus and the Armour Points of anything the troops may have equipped on their Body location. Normally, Squaddies only have 5 Wounds, whereas NPC Squad Leaders have 10. GMs should feel free to modify this number depending on what kind of enemy their players are facing.

The default Willpower of a Squad is 30, reflecting the human average. Various elite troops, animals, or alien creatures may have a higher Willpower, which the GM should feel free to take into account. Every 4 Squaddies still alive add +10 to a Squad's total Willpower. As long as the Squad Leader is still alive, they add +10 (+20 if having acquired the Halo of Command Talent).

As an option, each squad member may receive an individual name. Whilst less important for enemy Squads, this opportunity may lend a small bit of personality to Squads led by one of the player characters.

Optional: Squad Perks and Experience Levels

• Green: -5 WS/BS, -10 Willpower
• Experienced: n/a
• Veteran: +10 WS/BS, +5 Willpower
• Elite: +15 WS/BS, +10 Willpower

• Melee Specialists: +10 WS
• Marksmen: +10 BS
• Die Hard: +1 TB, +5 Wounds
• Mighty Shot: +2 Damage per ranged hit
• Mighty Blow: +2 Damage per melee hit

Equipment

By default, all regular squad members, henceforth called "Squaddies", share a single simplified weapon profile. To determine this weapon profile, look up the weapon you wish to equip the Squad with and write down 4 points of damage for each d10 that would normally be rolled before adding any additional damage (the value following the plus) and the damage type. Finish by also writing down the weapon's Penetration, if any.

If the equipped armament is a close combat weapon, add 3 points of damage for the Squaddies' average Strength. Various elite troops, animals, or alien creatures may have a higher Strength Bonus, which the GM should feel free to take into account.

Up to two Squaddies may be equipped with a Special or a Heavy Weapon. These optional weapons retain their original profile - simply write down the weapon's name in the "Damage" field and refer to the game's official rules whenever necessary.

Squad Sheet and Example

Squads Attacking

A Squad may move and/or attack once per turn and has a WS/BS score determined by the amount of Squaddies still alive, which is usually the same for both ranged as well as melee combat. Various Squad Perks as well as the Squad's experience level may split and change this value.

The GM (or the player whose character is in command of the squad) rolls a d100 and compares the result to the Attack column. If the Squad has performed a Half Move this turn, the number of hits is automatically reduced by -1. A Squad may only perform one Full Move or an Attack action per turn, but not both.

Every single hit is randomly attributed to one of the Squad's enemies, provided the unit has line of sight to its target(s). Unless the target is another Squad, the hit is resolved normally by rolling for the hit location before applying damage. Dodging or Parrying a hit is also possible.

Melee hits require the Squad to be in close combat with their enemy.

A result of "0" on the ones digit means the Squad has aimed well and each hit causes 8 points of damage per d10 instead of 4.

Special and Heavy Weapons are triggered on a result of 1 or 2 (for the first weapon) on the ones digit, or 3 or 4 (for the second weapon) on the ones digit. These hits are resolved normally using the weapon profiles of the official rules.

Note that ranged weapons with a particularly high rate of fire double this activation range. For example, if the first weapon is a heavy stubber, it would now trigger on a result of 1 to 4 on the ones digit, whereas the second weapon would shift its activation range to a result of either 5 or 6. If the Squad carries two heavy stubbers, the second one would achieve a hit range of 5 to 8.

Roll 1d5 per salvo to determine how many shots have hit their target.

Ranged weapons with a particularly high accuracy (such as sniper rifles) also double their activation range. However, instead of causing several hits, their attacks are made with the "Proven (6)" weapon quality, meaning that any dice result below 6 counts as if it had rolled a 6.

If the Squad Leader is a named NPC or a Player Character, their attacks are resolved separately. Otherwise, the Squad Leader adds their own hits whenever the Squad's Attack Roll is at least 5 points higher than the WS/BS of the first Squaddie.

Attacking a Squad

As long as it has at least two members (including the Squad Leader), all Attacks on a Squad receive a +10 bonus. The ones digit of the Attack roll determines which of the squad members is hit. If the slot associated with the ones digit is already a casualty or has been empty to begin with, the Attacker may choose either the next or the previous squad member as this attack's victim.

All hits on Squaddies count as Body hits. Simply subtract the target's combined AP+TB from the combined Damage+Pen of the Attacker; for Squaddies, Pen applies to Toughness Bonus as well. Once a squad member drops below their Wounds total, they are counted as a casualty.

"Look out, Sir!"

Once per round, an important NPC or Player Character attached to a Squad who is subject to an attack may choose to have a Squaddie take the damage by rolling a d10 to determine which squad member is hit. This attempt must be made before the Defender attempts to Parry or Dodge, but after the Attacker has succeeded on their Attack Roll.

If the slot associated with the ones digit is a casualty or has been empty to begin with, the attempt fails and the attack still hits its original target.

I like this a lot.

Most of my hangups with Hordes/ Formations comes from using them to alleviate complexity during combat, but resulting in a completely different kind of complexity. It's also a pain to explain to players how the rules work, since it goes against most of the typical combat rules already listed in the book (which are lengthy enough without adding an entirely other category of enemy). I particularly like the consolidation of necessary information into a single sheet, without completely eliminating the individuality of squad members. Also, removing random damage results allows the GM to understand exactly how challenging they'll be in combat against certain players.

If you've ever run a horde and accidentally killed the party's Adept with 24 Critical Damage, you'll understand why this is important.

I particularly like the consolidation of necessary information into a single sheet, without completely eliminating the individuality of squad members. Also, removing random damage results allows the GM to understand exactly how challenging they'll be in combat against certain players.

If you've ever run a horde and accidentally killed the party's Adept with 24 Critical Damage, you'll understand why this is important.

Indeed, both of these things were major reasons for developing that experimental ruleset! It's primarily meant for antagonists, but should also be adaptable for allies or minions under player command, and in this role be capable of supporting a minimum of individualisation (and you could always easily "morph" Squaddies into normal NPCs and back, retaining/converting any injuries they may have incurred in the other state).

And yes - I've not had that happen to myself yet, but I do know from other groups where Deathwatch Marines basically got one-shot by Hordes. If damage can be anything between, say, 10 (won't even go through a Marine's AP+TB) and 40 (ouch) points, that's a threat level hard to assess for a GM. Most of all, the additional d10s also reduce the uniqueness of individual weapons, as (barring Penetration) the randomisation becomes more prominent than a weapon's natural characteristics.

It doesn't exactly kill off immersion due to the system being so abstracted anyways, and a good GM may well be able to wrap this up in a nice narration, but personally, I'd still prefer some more detail, at least when it comes to smaller groups of enemies. Gut-feeling, if you will.

I also like to think that this basically allows people to recreate the tabletop within the RPG, regarding the inclusion of special and heavy weapons. Although I've heard that Only War's formations have done something to that effect now.

Anyways, if you ever decide to give the above a try, I'd really appreciate further practical feedback regarding how things worked out, and where it needs tuning.

I've run three campaigns and have never had more than six enemies in a fight. I think you might want to check out other 40k games, as some mentioned above (only war, Deathwatch), Dark Heresy at least is more focused on investigation and intrigue than open warfare.

That being said, I've yet to play second edition, (though am reading it) and so far, it doesn't seem to have strayed too far from the first. I admit, though, having the group be called a warband instead of Acolytes might be a signal I haven't fully noticed yet.

I admit, though, having the group be called a warband instead of Acolytes might be a signal I haven't fully noticed yet.

That's just how Inquisitorial parties were always called in GW's own material. There, the Inquisition is often portrayed a bit more martial and less "cloak and daggers", especially compared to Dark Heresy where normally you don't even get to roll around with your Inquisitor.

The term might possibly originate in Mordheim, seeing as how the d100 Inquisitor game for which most of the Inquisitorial background was written for is somewhat similar in gameplay.

I admit it's a weird unexpected change in terminology, though. I wonder if this means they've adopted GW's meaning of the term "cell"; too?

But I wouldn't expect much to change in terms of focus as far as DH2 is concerned. You can do cloak and daggers as well as kicking down doors - just like it was always possible with DH1 as well. It all comes down to what the GM wants to do. You want courtly intrigue and detective work? Dark Heresy can be that. You want to neutralise cultist cells and 'stealer broods? Dark Heresy can be that, too.

The tools are all there. What you do with them is up to the individual group.

I've run three campaigns and have never had more than six enemies in a fight. I think you might want to check out other 40k games, as some mentioned above (only war, Deathwatch), Dark Heresy at least is more focused on investigation and intrigue than open warfare.

That being said, I've yet to play second edition, (though am reading it) and so far, it doesn't seem to have strayed too far from the first. I admit, though, having the group be called a warband instead of Acolytes might be a signal I haven't fully noticed yet.

While you are right, the players have exposed a sector-wide heresy within the Adeptus Mechanicum and effectively mobilised the Inquisition for war. It's a little bit messy.

Horde rules work fine when used against space marines when applied with a bit of common sense and/or home brewing.

In DH, not so much in my opinion.

What I do when throwing a handful of opponents against the players is divide the attackers in groups of 3....this allows one attacker to be supported by 2 additional attackers (as per RAW) for a +20 bonus to hit. And for damage, I give the weapon used by the NPC actually attacking a player in each group the tearing characteristic so the damage is still respectable.

This way, I don't have to run every attacker individually, just 3-4 groups of 3 NPC's each and each group is dangerous without being overwhelming for the player under attack.....

I like this! I may steal it for small groups of less than squad size.

I still would prefer the formation rules for squad level engagements but I still use a houserule for them. I don't allow the squad members to be killed on just any hit. Instead, I treat them like comrades (First hit that does damage equals wounded second hit = dead). Lastly I include a rule that was originally from DH2 1st beta; Any hit that does more damage (After reduction) than 2x tb or a critical hit on a troop level NPC is an instagib. I find these speed things up pretty quickly w/o over complicating too much!