This thread was created to address a point brought up regarding the timeline between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens.

End of micro history lesson.

Probably more of a decent analogy and something that few people in the Us are aware of is

'the troubles'

The British Army took on the IRA for 38 years in northern ireland. Not legally a war but lots of people died, lots of hit and run raids, it was a 'rebellion' against an imperial power (on paper... the reality is different).

Kit didnt change that much.

In nearly 40 years the uniform changed noticably *once* (from green to camo and then the cut of the camo uniform changed maybe three times?). Webbing changed once, helmets once (with a few specialist types) and main personal weapon once.

In FORTY YEARS

I wore stuff in the 90s that guys on the streets in belfast would have been wearing in the mid 70s. My rifle was the same type as that carried in the previous decade.

The IRA... well they used whatever they could steal off us or were supplied by the USA or their marxist comrades in eastern europe. A bit like the way the rebels work in star wars

We should get you a more proper Union Jack instead of the Hammer and Sickle Gadge.

I chose the hammer and sickle because on a predominantly US forum its the avatar in the stupidly limited pool least likely to be used by anyone else on the xwing forums

And i also re-enact soviet airborne in afghansitan and the a hypothetical cold war goes hot in europe!

Motor rifles recce kit NWE

and afghanistan kit (late 80s)

Wore British DPM for my job for a while... its interesting to wear the other sides kit and learn how they did things

My mate and I in the Gaz... we've shooting glasses on for health and safety reasons as it was a cold war airsoft event.

We should get you a more proper Union Jack instead of the Hammer and Sickle Gadge.

Nice pic.

Incidentally its a 'union flag', its only a 'jack' when flown from a Royal Navy warship but nearly every one calls the Union Flag the Union Jack.

Most people dont know how to fly one the right way up or how to fold one properly either... useful skills you learn. Dont let anyone ever tell you the army dont teach 'transferable skills'

We should get you a more proper Union Jack instead of the Hammer and Sickle Gadge.

Nice pic.

Incidentally its a 'union flag', its only a 'jack' when flown from a Royal Navy warship but nearly every one calls the Union Flag the Union Jack.

Most people dont know how to fly one the right way up or how to fold one properly either... useful skills you learn. Dont let anyone ever tell you the army dont teach 'transferable skills'

Fun fact: though the Queen of England and the Queen of Canada are the same person, they are separate titles with separate flags. This is true for each of the Commonwealth nations.

As far as I know, Liz only ever uses her English Royal Standard unless she is physically present on the soil of the nation for which she has another flag.

I've been to DC when Liz was visiting and was slightly disappointed to not see the Canadian royal standard flying in the mansion we put her up in.

We should get you a more proper Union Jack instead of the Hammer and Sickle Gadge.

Nice pic.

Incidentally its a 'union flag', its only a 'jack' when flown from a Royal Navy warship but nearly every one calls the Union Flag the Union Jack.

Most people dont know how to fly one the right way up or how to fold one properly either... useful skills you learn. Dont let anyone ever tell you the army dont teach 'transferable skills'

Fun fact: though the Queen of England and the Queen of Canada are the same person, they are separate titles with separate flags. This is true for each of the Commonwealth nations.

As far as I know, Liz only ever uses her English Royal Standard unless she is physically present on the soil of the nation for which she has another flag.

I've been to DC when Liz was visiting and was slightly disappointed to not see the Canadian royal standard flying in the mansion we put her up in.

This thread was created to address a point brought up regarding the timeline between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens.

First to give credit that a war between two powers can indeed last three decades, and then more importantly to show that this new timeline actually gives us perfect opportunity as Star Wars fans and gamers.

The probability of having a near endless war between The Empire and the Rebellion [so called New Republic] is not something we need to strain our imagination on. Looking at our own words history brings many such examples.

Wars

The Hundred Years' War was a series of conflicts waged from 1337 to 1453 between the House of Plantagenet, rulers of the Kingdom of England, against the House of Valois for control of the Kingdom of France. Each side drew many allies into the war.

Through their French possessions, the English kings since the Norman Conquest were vassals of the kings of France. The French kings had endeavored, over the centuries, to reduce the possessions of their over-mighty vassals, to the effect that only Gascony was left to the English. The confiscation or threat of confiscating this duchy had been part of French policy to check the growth of English power, particularly whenever the English were at war with the Kingdom of Scotland, an ally of France.

[The Hundred Years' War actually spanned 116 years.]

The Thirty Years' War was a series of wars in Central Europe between 1618–1648. It was one of the most destructive conflicts in European history, and one of the longest.

Initially a war between Protestant and Catholic states in the fragmenting Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a more general conflict involving most of the great powers of Europe,^[ becoming less about religion and more a continuation of the France–Habsburg rivalry for European political pre-eminence.

World War I [WWI] or the Great War, was a global war centred in Europe that began on 28 July 1914 and lasted until 11 November 1918. More than 9 million combatants and 7 million civilians died as a result of the war, a casualty rate exacerbated by the belligerents' technological and industrial sophistication, and tactical stalemate. It was one of the deadliest conflicts in history, paving the way for major political changes, including revolutions in many of the nations involved.

World War II [WWII] also known as the Second World War, was a global war that lasted from 1939 to 1945, though related conflicts began earlier. It involved the vast majority of the world's nations—including all of the great powers—eventually forming two opposing military alliances: the Allies and the Axis. It was the most widespread war in history, and directly involved more than 100 million people from over 30 countries.

There are now some modern historians who claim that both World Wars can be grouped as the SAME WAR that had a brief 11 year respite between them, a respite that still had many conflicts occurring around the world, this would mean that the years totaled would be 31 years.

The Cold War was a state of political and military tension after World War II between powers in the Western Bloc (the United States, its NATO allies and others) and powers in the Eastern Bloc (the Soviet Union and its allies in the Warsaw Pact). Historians have not fully agreed on the dates, but 1947–1991 is a moderate assessment.

Again some historians would argue that the Cold War is in part a continuation of World War II.

And to draw an example from the East, the Second Sino-Japanese War (July 7, 1937 – September 9, 1945), called so after the First Sino-Japanese War of 1894–95, was a military conflict fought primarily between the Republic of China and the Empire of Japan. China fought Japan, with some economic help from Germany (see Sino-German cooperation until 1941), the Soviet Union and the United States. After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, the war merged into the greater conflict of World War II as a major front of what is broadly known as the Pacific War. The Second Sino-Japanese War was the largest Asian war in the 20th century.

In Fantasy, Middle Earth had wars lasting for 900 years during the Second Age.

End of micro history lesson.

The current Expanded Universe gives us many great and memorable characters, planets, ships and stories to drive our X-Wing and role playing games forward. But the Expanded Universe has left the timeline a little cluttered, a little crowded and one where the accepted Star Wars story has already been told.

Now that the Expanded Universe is considered Legends and stories leading to The Force Awakens have yet to be told, we have been given an opportunity, it leaves us an OPEN canvas

We can still use any material we want from them to bring into our games, great tools to be sure, and we have blank slate we can use to create our own stories between Episode VI and VII.

What stops us as a fan gaming community of creating a world wide global campaign, say set between 15 years after Return of the Jedi and 7 years prior to the events in the opening scene of The Force Awakens? We can send in Battle Reports from around the world and determine the fate of OUR Star Wars Galaxy.

We can use X-Wing for dogfights over the skies Kashyyyk as the Rebellion attempts to liberate the Wookies and break The Empire's slave labor force. We can use Armada's Star Destroyers to turn the floating Mon Cal cities to beds of ash. We can use skirmish in Imperial Assault to fight battles on a thousand, thousand worlds from the Galactic Core to the Unknown Regoins. we can use the Roleplaying games [from West End Games to Wizards off the Coast to Fantasy Flight] for everything from Bounty Hunter chases in Mos Eisley to cloak and dagger intrigue between Black Sun Vigos to media scandals in the Corporate Sector.

I have been a Star Wars Fan for 34 years, there are times I can out Wookiepedia ... Wookipedia. We now have a 30 year playground that lays before us. I for one am excited.

So bring me the next ten waves of X-Wing. Bring every combination of capital ship for Armada. Give me massive expansions for Imperial Assault.

I'll butter my pop corn when Episode VII comes out, but until then, "we will remind this Rebellion what war is all about."

Granted the post ROTJ stuff has the highest chance of being altered, 1 SW writter said he would fix any story issue caused by new stories, another one said the old stuff is still canon and even if it has a contradiction its only the small detailes that are non- canon. The last one said we misunderstood the video made by LFL about legends and canon.

Legends doesnt mean non-canon.

That being said ID love to see the World Destroyers curb the Vong then go out of control.

One major difference between the Galactic Civil War and the conflicts you talk about: Endor.

After Endor, the Emperor is dead. Vader is dead. The Imperial Navy is devastated- "decimated" might be an understatement.

At the beginning of A New Hope, the Emperor disolved the Imperial Senate, and devolved political power to local governments, with the Imperial government being represented by the military and the bureaucracy.

5 years later, after Endor, everyone who can give orders on behalf of the entire Empire is dead. Meanwhile, there are lots of powerful Moffs with their own local forces. That's a recipe for disintegration and warlordism.

At the same time, the Rebellion's leadership cadre and military is alive and kicking. They also have a mission to replace the Empire with a Republic, for the whole galaxy.

I'm curious to see how we got from Endor to where we seem to be in Awakens. I can't wait for the interesting stories to explain it.

We should get you a more proper Union Jack instead of the Hammer and Sickle Gadge.

Nice pic.

Incidentally its a 'union flag', its only a 'jack' when flown from a Royal Navy warship but nearly every one calls the Union Flag the Union Jack.

Most people dont know how to fly one the right way up or how to fold one properly either... useful skills you learn. Dont let anyone ever tell you the army dont teach 'transferable skills'

Back when I was proud to be a North American I was color guard accouple times. Even got to be at a flag retirement. Gloves had to be burned with the flag.

You can't tell me there wasn't at least one Grand Moff who ever thought. "If it wasn't for the Emperor and his henchman, I'd could run this Empire so much better" who wasn't licking his chops once word came back from Endor. Besides, we're talking about a gigantic galaxy; if there was a group of high ranking Imperial officials who liked their cushy positions and didn't exactly feel like stepping down, "The death of the Emperor is traitorous propaganda, he's perfectly fine, in fact, here's his latest decree" is a pretty easy story to tell (and fits in with the description of the Emperor from the original Star Wars novelization to boot).

Vader and the Emperor were significant losses, but you're telling me every single Imperial military unit on Coruscant just stood down en masse when they got the news? I highly doubt it.

Vader and the Emperor were significant losses, but you're telling me every single Imperial military unit on Coruscant just stood down en masse when they got the news? I highly doubt it.

*Everywhere* in the Empire, as the special edition would seem to imply? I do rather doubt it. Coruscant, though?

I dunno, I could see a case for that. After all, Coruscant was the seat of power of the old Republic, what with the Jedi and Senate headquartered there. With the end of the Jedi, and the dissolution of the Senate in favor of 'local governors', Coruscant would suddenly find itself without a purpose.

Palpatine likely intended to rule from the Death Star, itself - and any area that suddenly finds its major source of business and trade suddenly gone is likely to face pretty a severe recession.

So...I could certainly see an argument that Coruscant would welcome the end of the Empire and return to a more open galactic government, with elected representatives meeting there.

We should get you a more proper Union Jack instead of the Hammer and Sickle Gadge.

Nice pic.

Incidentally its a 'union flag', its only a 'jack' when flown from a Royal Navy warship but nearly every one calls the Union Flag the Union Jack.

Most people dont know how to fly one the right way up or how to fold one properly either... useful skills you learn. Dont let anyone ever tell you the army dont teach 'transferable skills'

Fun fact: though the Queen of England and the Queen of Canada are the same person, they are separate titles with separate flags. This is true for each of the Commonwealth nations.

As far as I know, Liz only ever uses her English Royal Standard unless she is physically present on the soil of the nation for which she has another flag.

I've been to DC when Liz was visiting and was slightly disappointed to not see the Canadian royal standard flying in the mansion we put her up in.

heheh i used to have 'Aunti Liz' Hired Gun' written in marker on the back of my helmet (until it got spotted and i got a rollicking and had to get a new helmet cover and was fined for the cost of the 'wilful damage to governement property')

Nobody ever noticed the replacement i'd written in biro on the side 'yay though i walk through the valley of the shadow of death i shall fear no evil .. becuase i'm the baddest motherf***er in the valley'

Then my platoon commander notices it and said 'Harvey, what the F*** does that say on your helmet' and I said 'yay....etc' and expecting another telling off said 'so do you want me to get rid of it?'

He said 'No, Harvey, my *nan* is badder than you... leave it you muppet'

Good bloke Lt Spears was... he understood being a good sqaudie had more about how you fought and operated, not how smart you looked in the field.

Incidentally its a 'union flag', its only a 'jack' when flown from a Royal Navy warship but nearly every one calls the Union Flag the Union Jack.

I know this because of Doctor Who!

One major difference between the Galactic Civil War and the conflicts you talk about: Endor.

After Endor, the Emperor is dead. Vader is dead. The Imperial Navy is devastated- "decimated" might be an understatement.

At the beginning of A New Hope, the Emperor disolved the Imperial Senate, and devolved political power to local governments, with the Imperial government being represented by the military and the bureaucracy.

5 years later, after Endor, everyone who can give orders on behalf of the entire Empire is dead. Meanwhile, there are lots of powerful Moffs with their own local forces. That's a recipe for disintegration and warlordism.

At the same time, the Rebellion's leadership cadre and military is alive and kicking. They also have a mission to replace the Empire with a Republic, for the whole galaxy.

I'm curious to see how we got from Endor to where we seem to be in Awakens. I can't wait for the interesting stories to explain it.

I'm hoping the concept of the Death Star II exploding is combined with the concept of gravity.

I've always read that its the pull of the gravity DSII generates that pulls the executor into it.

(on a side note i pronounced the 'executor' as 'executer' (as in ;executioner' for years as it seemed to make sense as a kid) i've since learned its pronounced to be more in line with 'executive'

which makes more sense to an adult but is way less cooler.

May as well call your star destroyer the 'vice chairman'

One major difference between the Galactic Civil War and the conflicts you talk about: Endor.

After Endor, the Emperor is dead. Vader is dead. The Imperial Navy is devastated- "decimated" might be an understatement.

At the beginning of A New Hope, the Emperor disolved the Imperial Senate, and devolved political power to local governments, with the Imperial government being represented by the military and the bureaucracy.

5 years later, after Endor, everyone who can give orders on behalf of the entire Empire is dead. Meanwhile, there are lots of powerful Moffs with their own local forces. That's a recipe for disintegration and warlordism.

At the same time, the Rebellion's leadership cadre and military is alive and kicking. They also have a mission to replace the Empire with a Republic, for the whole galaxy.

I'm curious to see how we got from Endor to where we seem to be in Awakens. I can't wait for the interesting stories to explain it.

I'm hoping the concept of the Death Star II exploding is combined with the concept of gravity.

Thats not even the worst of it. The Death of Sidious caused a powerful darkside nexus. Anything thats still alive will have to deal with darkside entities. Everday after ROTJ for survivors should be like a mix betwwen Poltergiest 1 2 3, Grudge, Ghostbuster but without anything to defend oneself from "Ghosts." This Nexus will also cause Sith and other Darksiders to flock too Endor. So then you got stuff like "End of Days," "Legend," "Spirit of Vengance," and "Paranormal Activity" series going on.

Thats not even the worst of it. The Death of Sidious caused a powerful darkside nexus. Anything thats still alive will have to deal with darkside entities. Everday after ROTJ for survivors should be like a mix betwwen Poltergiest 1 2 3, Grudge, Ghostbuster but without anything to defend oneself from "Ghosts." This Nexus will also cause Sith and other Darksiders to flock too Endor. So then you got stuff like "End of Days," "Legend," "Spirit of Vengance," and "Paranormal Activity" series going on.

Indeed. Which is why - in the new Star Wars series - Ewoks will look like this:

(on a side note i pronounced the 'executor' as 'executer' (as in ;executioner' for years as it seemed to make sense as a kid) i've since learned its pronounced to be more in line with 'executive'

Like executioner is a valid archaic pronunciation and undoubtably what was intended.

I chose the hammer and sickle because on a predominantly US forum its the avatar in the stupidly limited pool least likely to be used by anyone else on the xwing forums.

And don't let anyone convince you to change it. I think it's awesome!

After Endor, the Emperor is dead. Vader is dead. The Imperial Navy is devastated- "decimated" might be an understatement.

I don't hope that they change too much from the EU-version of events. Of course, we know that they have every (legal) right to do so.

What you consider plausible is another matter. Great epic stories, such as SW, frequently embrace a great man of history model of human events. Great things happen because of great heroes and villains - ie. particular individuals. Maybe this helps us feel personally significant (it should to the opposite, but oh well). Maybe it allows us to forgive our enemies after their leader is dead.

For dramatic purposes (such as SW), I'm perfectly fine with that until it just gets so out of hand that it's ludicrous. Maybe that's why I've had a hard time getting into superhero stories.

Of course, sometimes a single individual can be the symbol that locks a broader structural regime in place. I can certainly see that as being the case in the SWU, even without the Emperor's superhuman powers.

Anyway... just some thoughts that I thought were halfway pertinent.

One major difference between the Galactic Civil War and the conflicts you talk about: Endor.

After Endor, the Emperor is dead. Vader is dead. The Imperial Navy is devastated- "decimated" might be an understatement.

yeahhhh....I dunno about that. Endor was a raid, not a climactic battle. Depending on which edit of ROTJ you watch, you really only see about 2 Star Destroyers and 1 SSD go down. Later, EU books gave Endor much greater meaning. Like the recent Lucas re-edits which never sat well with me, we see this seemingly instant celebrating the rebel victory. Rubbish! According to wookiepedia, the empire had 25,000 Imperial I class Star Destroyers and thousands of worlds under its rule. I always felt that even in the EU, the imperial remnant melted away a bit too fast. The re-thinking of Ep VII and the possibility of 30-40 years of war/conflict seems a much more appropriate possibility. And as mentioned in this thread, a great playground to act out the countless battles that no doubt, took place within that time.

yeahhhh....I dunno about that. Endor was a raid, not a climactic battle. Depending on which edit of ROTJ you watch, you really only see about 2 Star Destroyers and 1 SSD go down. Later, EU books gave Endor much greater meaning. Like the recent Lucas re-edits which never sat well with me, we see this seemingly instant celebrating the rebel victory. Rubbish! According to wookiepedia, the empire had 25,000 Imperial I class Star Destroyers and thousands of worlds under its rule.

I always felt that even in the EU, the imperial remnant melted away a bit too fast. The re-thinking of Ep VII and the possibility of 30-40 years of war/conflict seems a much more appropriate possibility. And as mentioned in this thread, a great playground to act out the countless battles that no doubt, took place within that time.

Agreed on the scale of the Empire.

Disagreed on the melting away of the regime. I rather like how the EU interprets that one - even in Darksaber, which is a loathesome book otherwise.

From what I've read, the Emperor created a political structure in which he was the absolute keystone, so that no one could reasonably take over from him without the whole thing crumbling apart.

But even so, when he did die at Endor, the regime crumbled pretty slowly. The Thrawn trilogy is set, what, some five years later? The regime seems to have fragmented, not disintegrated. For most of the galaxy what changed was the degrees of autonomy they had. Most sectors remained politically whole. It was just the moffs who then had some autonomy, or were deciding which warlord to put their lot in with.

I rather like that dynamic, which is why that is exactly when I tend to set my SW roleplaying games.

From what I've read, the Emperor created a political structure in which he was the absolute keystone, so that no one could reasonably take over from him without the whole thing crumbling apart.

I've read that too, but what exactly did he do? Its never really explained. The closest thing to an explanation was in Timothy Zahn's frist of the Thrawn Trilogy Heir to the Empire in which he said that the Emperor used the force to communicate with his commanders and Moffs. Something nobody else could do. I kinda rolled my eyes at that.

What we know from source material is massive organizations he created like the Imperial Security Bureau (ISB) and COMPNOR (Commision for the Preservation of the New Order). These organizations, along with a MASSIVE military and regional commanders/governors seems designed to MAINTAIN (or preserve if you will *ahem*) the New Order...even in the absence of a force-using emperor.

I've always felt the Rebel Alliance would have a monumental task in breaking down the elements of the New Order doctrine, especially on worlds or sectors that were human dominated and that benefited from Imperial rule. The Rebels might truly seem like terrorists to those people, no doubt being told so by nightly holocasts.

The biggest thing would have been that there was no clear (or even blurry) line of succession. Without the emperor there is no one who is "supposed" to be in overall charge. Yes, the emperor created these assorted bureaucracies, but he deliberately fostered a climate of competition and mistrust among them, as well as among the top military commanders. So, when he died, there would have been no one person who was a natural replacement, but a whole lot of people who probably thought they should replace him and who were accustomed to competing with the other people who thought THEY should replace him.

The result would be a very rapid fragmentation of the empire into numerous smaller, competing factions. All of whom claimed to be "the true empire". Such a political environment would be perfect for a decently organized insurgency to seize the initiative and declare a new government and gain a fair amount of support. This is what the early EU at least claimed happened.

30 years later, the political climate could be virtually anything. A single imperial warlord may have been able to unify the competing factions and re-establish the empire in his/her own image, the rebellion/ new republic could have eliminated the empire completely and truly united the galaxy, with no central authority the entire galaxy could have descended into anarchy with no government larger than a dozen or so systems, or anything I between any of those. Yes, 30 years is not too long for any of the possible scenarios to be the case, but it is long enough for any of them to be the case. We simply don't know.

Dramatically, the galaxy needs to be in or about to be embroiled in a significant conflict and it needs to be done in such a way so as to not invalidate all the struggles the characters in the OT went though.