I'm a fan of both A-wings and running what I like to the point of stubbornness. Recently I played a pair of matches that both game down to a single A-wing vs. a single Phantom. Both end games lasted a long time but inevitably the Phantom won out. It's 4 attack and cloak just neutered the 2 attack I was throwing.

In the first game successful procket attacks saw Jake, Tycho (no shields), and Gemmer (one shield) eliminate two squints and a TIE with only Whisper remaining. Whisper blew Tycho sky high with one shot and Gemmer fell the next turn. All that was left was:

Jake Farrel

-Test Pilot

-Push the Limit

-Outmaneuver

vs.

Whisper

-Veteran Instincts

-Advanced Cloaking Device

And it looked like this for 4 rounds:

And, for the first time, my A-wng felt like the less nimble ship on the board:

Constant turning in on each other. Jake used his barrel roll to great effect, cutting inside of turns, luring Whisper in close to then slip out of arc, and actually got off more --albeit ineffective-- shots. Eventually Whisper pinned him in though.

The second battle was between Whisper and Tycho. In a much more even battle 3 generic A-wings and 2 squints slaughted one another, leaving only Whisper (down one shield) and Tycho in full health.

Tycho Celchu

-Test Pilot

-Push the Limit

-Daredevil

vs.

Whisper

-Veteran Instincts

-Advanced Cloaking Device

-Rebel Captive

Rebel Captive was Whisper's only addition but Tycho channeled the cold void Alderaan's destruction made in his heart and ignored the stress it gave out, rendering that particular addition moot. Unfortunately, much the same end game played out with Tycho turning head to head as much as possible to try and force the overshoot. Inevitably Whisper managed to create enough distance though that 5 attack die later Tycho went the way of Alderaan.

*Fully recognizing that this is not an ideal match up* though I thought I'd ask: Any advice on how to handle a lone A-wing vs. a Phantom? I'm not playing for in a tournament, I'm playing in my living room. I recognize there are other lists that go well against Phantoms but I'm not interested, I'm specifically asking about any advice for going toe-to-toe with an A-wing. All in good fun so if there's nothing to be said that's okay.

Because the A-wing still looks sexier anyway.

I feel for you man.

How about really focusing on shooting down the Phantom and not being lured by easy shots on other ships?

Also, are you completely all A-wings? If you could use a HWK, you could build the perfect Phantom counters... Roark, ICT, moldy, intel agent.

If you find out how to do it, let me know. I've failed miserably Tycho w/ DD EI PTL against Whisper w/ VI multiple times. There are multiple problems. Moving first eliminates most of your maneuverability. And the shots are 4v3 and 2v4. Even if Tycho has F+E, he's going to be taking more damage if Whisper takes F (or has FCS). You have to kill Whisper before your A wing is your only ship left.

I want to like AWings but I just can't get behind those 2 attack dice and be happy about it. Proton rockets maybe?

Tycho with PTL and VI. The most important part of out-flying a phantom is beating its PS so you move after it has committed to its move. Tycho gets to move second (and turtle with evade + focus if you can't get out of arc) and shoot before the phantom can re-cloak. If you're willing to spend a few more points a proton rocket can end the "duel" in one shot.

agreed with PTL VI and Prockets. Prockets must be fired with TL and F. Otherwise you're going be really sad.

Also, even then, might not kill the Phantom in one hit.

Really this becomes much easier with a HWK in the mix. 1 HWK 3 A wings? Too diluted for your pureblood? hahaha

Here's a question:

In a battle against a list that has a Phantom and you've an A-wing with prockets, do you pass up the easy shot on another ship and save it for the Phantom at all costs?

And:

Is it better to eliminate the other ships in the Phantom list as fast as possible so that you can outnumber the Phantom or should you risk taking flanking shots to kill the Phantom first?

In both matches I took out all the other ships through a combination of movement, cleverness, and prockets. My hope was that a 3v1 match, even without prockets, would be enough. Is the general agreement that the Phantom should be considered Enemy Number 1 in all cases?

Really this becomes much easier with a HWK in the mix. 1 HWK 3 A wings? Too diluted for your pureblood? hahaha

Haha, I do lean pureblood. But I actually had Roark in the second match, circling the area with an Ion Turret for both buffering PS and added control. I need to try that again because in the second match he got trapped on the wrong side of an asteroid. It was that for end up in range 1 of both squints and the Phantom. Suggestions for a HWK+at least one A-wing list?

If you can arc dodge the other ships with the A-wings, then yes, Phantom is enemy number one.

I would not say this is good against most lists... but it should take care of Phantoms/

--

Utter bull build:

Read it carefully.

Is autothrusters really that helpful against a Phantom that can usually attack from range 2 or less and, by definition, can only attack via their firing arc? And is it better to have, in addition to the HWK, more generic A/Z's than two stronger uniques like Tycho and Jake?

Is autothrusters really that helpful against a Phantom that can usually attack from range 2 or less and, by definition, can only attack via their firing arc? And is it better to have, in addition to the HWK, more generic A/Z's than two stronger uniques like Tycho and Jake?

No they are totally useless. Its to help vs Falcon.

Also, hull, moldy + 2 autothrusters = 10 points. Still can't squeeze in a Z.

I think there was a PS bid of 1 and intel though.. take thouse out youll have 12 points for a Z. Yeah, do that.

Take it back on Dash. That build will probably be a pain still.

In a battle against a list that has a Phantom and you've an A-wing with prockets, do you pass up the easy shot on another ship and save it for the Phantom at all costs?

Take whichever ship I get a kill shot against first. Tycho should win most of the time against a phantom, it just takes a bit longer without a proton rocket. That's no big deal if those are the last two ships and there's no time limit, but an early proton rocket kill means that phantom won't be shooting at your other ships anymore.

Is it better to eliminate the other ships in the Phantom list as fast as possible so that you can outnumber the Phantom or should you risk taking flanking shots to kill the Phantom first?

Depends on the setup. If they deploy the phantom in a spot that lets you set up a flanking shot in response then go for it. Even if you can beat the phantom in endgame situations it's still a 4-dice gun that can do a lot of damage before it dies, so get rid of it asap. But if there's no good flanking shot (for example, you have to fly through a wall of meatshields to get to it) don't risk trying, just clean up the phantom later.

Hell. Forget about convincing you. I've convinced myself. I'm gonna run this next.

Haha, nice. Glad I could help. Come back and let me know how it works for you when you do!

I was toying with this where Roark, Tycho, and Jake team up as a 'Ghoastbusters' list. But am I correct in thinking you are more of a fan of Roark + 'as many ships (read: attacks) as possible?' (I used Corran once, and it was decent, so he deserves a second look I suppose.)

Tycho

-Test Pilot

-Push the Limit

-Daredevil

-Experimental Interface

-Prockets

Jake

-Test Pilot

-Push the Limit

-Decoy

-Prockets

Roark

-Ion Turret

-Intelligence Agent

99points

I've been trying to think of a way to use Roark and Decoy, maybe giving the Phantom a tough choice to make since the PS12 could get passed around unexpectedly. Catch him with his pants, er, cloak down.

Is autothrusters really that helpful against a Phantom that can usually attack from range 2 or less and, by definition, can only attack via their firing arc?

Yes, because it stops long-range sniping and forces the phantom into a close-range turning match where a boost/BR can easily take you out of the phantom's arc. It's certainly not an auto-win, but it does have a purpose even when you aren't facing turrets.

Is it better to eliminate the other ships in the Phantom list as fast as possible so that you can outnumber the Phantom or should you risk taking flanking shots to kill the Phantom first?

Depends on the setup. If they deploy the phantom in a spot that lets you set up a flanking shot in response then go for it. Even if you can beat the phantom in endgame situations it's still a 4-dice gun that can do a lot of damage before it dies, so get rid of it asap. But if there's no good flanking shot (for example, you have to fly through a wall of meatshields to get to it) don't risk trying, just clean up the phantom later.

I did use the A-wing's 3 agility, plus some ridic asteroid skimming, to good effect while chasing the Phantom down. Maybe I can use that to get in close without laying myself out for the other ships to skewer...

Is autothrusters really that helpful against a Phantom that can usually attack from range 2 or less and, by definition, can only attack via their firing arc?

Yes, because it stops long-range sniping and forces the phantom into a close-range turning match where a boost/BR can easily take you out of the phantom's arc. It's certainly not an auto-win, but it does have a purpose even when you aren't facing turrets.

Ah, good point. 4 dice at range 3 vs. an A-wings 4 defense does still give him the advantage, hadn't remembered that.

You can do it, you just need to be super precise and use the asteroids to your advantage.

In the early game, get a really good feel for the location of all the asteroids. Make sure you fly through the middle of them at least once, and use your laser pointer / laser line guide in order to get a very precise idea of locations and angles. Through the middle game, make sure to eliminate the phantom's escort while keeping at least one of your A-Wings (preferably Jake, since he is the most mobile) alive.

As you get into the end game and find yourself one on one with the phantom, you should have a very precise idea of how to fly through the rocks. Send your A-Wing through, so that you will end up facing one another/jousting as you enter the asteroid field. Be sure to use your laser line guide in order to fly with great precision and don't end up on the rocks.

Then, when you are about to joust and your opponent has been lulled into a false sense of security by all of your laser guidance, shine the thing right in his eyes as he plans his maneuver. If you do it right, he will be sufficiently blinded that he will park his Phantom on a rock. Shoot at his actionless, decloaked Phantom and deal 1 damage. Repeat three times, preferably with great cackling laughter. Profit.

Hell. Forget about convincing you. I've convinced myself. I'm gonna run this next.

Haha, nice. Glad I could help. Come back and let me know how it works for you when you do!

I was toying with this where Roark, Tycho, and Jake team up as a 'Ghoastbusters' list. But am I correct in thinking you are more of a fan of Roark + 'as many ships (read: attacks) as possible?' (I used Corran once, and it was decent, so he deserves a second look I suppose.)

Tycho

-Test Pilot

-Push the Limit

-Daredevil

-Experimental Interface

-Prockets

Jake

-Test Pilot

-Push the Limit

-Decoy

-Prockets

Roark

-Ion Turret

-Intelligence Agent

99points

I've been trying to think of a way to use Roark and Decoy, maybe giving the Phantom a tough choice to make since the PS12 could get passed around unexpectedly. Catch him with his pants, er, cloak down.

First of all, the easiest way to beat a Phantom is to literally have higher PS than him. Roark only buffs PS for firing, but not for moving to ensure a shot. Its basically a cheaper way out.

That means Tycho PS 10 and Jake PS9 WITH AN INITIATIVE BID. emphasis added.

If you're primarily focused on beating a Phantom (And interceptors), you should have VI. There's no reason not to.

Decoy does nothing useful and is expensive.

Daredevil EI is cute, but WHY? You're PS8, hes PS9. You will ram him, then he will move away. Makes no sense.

KineticOperator makes a great point about asteroids though. Use a dense field and lure him into it to block some decloak choices. Will make your life easier.

Oh wait. Roark is only useful if you dont have PS anyway. ooops.

--

Also, for Roark builds, yes I like more ships cuz more ships tends to be better anyway. And more ships is the way to take down Fat builds.

A-wings are practically worthless against the phantom, since you're essentially throwing a piddly 2 red dice at their 4 + modifiers.

The only build I've found that stands a chance is

Jake

*Test Pilot

**Veteran

**Push the Limit

*Proton Rocket

If you don't have initiative, Jake moves after the phantom and can consistently outmaneuver it with his awesome ability. If he does, you're constantly threatening an expensive 2 agility porcelain vase, sometimes with 5 dice.

Also pisses the absolute crap out of Dash. There's so way for the big guy to keep Jake out of the doughnut hole

I one shoted Echo once with

Jake Farrell (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Proton Rockets (3)
Outmaneuver (3)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Total: 31

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

It was awsome we could not belive it happened. With A wings I find the best way to beat phantoms is to not have initiative if same PS they move then you can outmaneuver them helps to stop ACD as well then there really easy to hunt down

As many A-wings as you can pack into your squad with your desired choice of upgrades. Give them all proton rockets and sick the rockets on the phantom first eliminate it while you have more than one ship. Then use your supreme maneuverability to clean up the rest of your opponents list.

The two options that I'm seeing so far, and correct me if I'm wrong, are:

Option 1: Roark +PS12ing lower PS friendlies that spend points on offense instead of Veteran Instincts.

Option 2: Initiative bid AND Veteran Instincts on Tycho and Jake for PS 10 and 9 respectively, where initiative is declined if Whisper is at PS9 as well so that Jake can move after.

Correct?

Option 2 seems to be the preferred method. Likewise it runs tight point wise because, in addition to two uniques who cannot use Refit for the sake of prockets, you also need to stay below 100 points for the initiative bid.

agreed.

I prefer option 1. Better versus everything else. Also, decently good chance against Phantoms. (Its a bit of hedging).