I was 7 years old when my grandfather took me to see Star Wars, it was one of my earliest memories, it certainly is one of my fondest.

As the OP of this thread please understand I truly had no intention of the thread becoming a George Lucas or Prequel bashing thread, I thought it was interesting that Mr. Lucas made a comment that he had not seen the trailer, after all he could have just as easily not made a comment.

That being said I am a true Star Wars fan and by extension I am a fan of George Lucas and am both in awe and very appreciative of all his life's work and singular imagination. For that we are all here, truly in his debt.

I can look past Jar Jar Binks' antics and horrendous accent. I can steel myself and get through Hayden Christensen's acting. All of the finger nails on blackboard drawbacks of the prequels I can defend and abide by, and I can look any other fan in the eye and say "its part of the Saga, deal with it."

But ... [There is always a but]

The only complaint I have with the prequels outside of dialogue is the midichlorians.

That's really dumb. The force didn't need a backstory, but I suppose it makes reading potential jedi easier than everyone walking around essentially saying "I have a feeling about this"

This.

A thousand, thousand worlds orbiting a thousand stars THIS!

Why did Mr. Lucas have to give science to The Force?!!

The Star Wars of my childhood felt special in part because of that Star Wars a Space Opera, a Fantasy set against the backdrop of a Galaxy far, far away.

The Star Wars of my youth was not a sci fi sterile dystopia where everything had to be explained.

The Star Wars of my youth was a Fantasy, a fable where the Arch Villains wore black [and his minions white!], where farm boys saved the princess [his sister even!], and scoundrels shot first!

The Force was a mystery inside of riddle wrapped in an enigma underneath ... you get the picture.

I have combed the internet for well over a decade and I have NEVER ever seen an argument put forth that could come close to changing my mind about the midi-chlorians, and to be very honest, I don't want to find one now.

I am a true Star Wars FAN. I am George Lucas fan.

In MY Star Wars those bloody midi-chlorians just don't exist.

I owe my 7 year old version of myself that.

To quote someone I heard somewhere, "It's part of the saga, deal with it"

Even as a fan of the prequels for the most part, I refuse midi-chlorians.

I also reject the concept that only a scarce few are force sensitive, and hold the up the idea that one need only guidance to open themselves to the force and feel it. After all, if it connects all life, why would that not be true?

I truly hate the prequels. I think they are incompetent on just a pure film making level. The shoddy incoherent script, the lazy unimaginative directing, and the flat and uninteresting characters are all technical reasons why I hate them. I feel I have objective reasons why they are just bad films. But people will like what they like, and no amount of arguing will change that, so I feel debating the subject, while fun, easily turns into a mud slinging contest.

If someone finds enjoyment from something, why do people who don't like the prequels take offense to that and feel they need to put them down for it? On the flip side people who like the prequels shouldn't put down those who have objective reasons for doing so.

So you didn't want a George Lucas bashing thread so you started another?

I accept them. As you say they are part of the canon, deal with it. I get peoples arguments about 'Oh but the mysticism' and I feel it's a bunch of bull really. The Jedi were around for thousands of years, at some point someone would have gone "What exactly makes these guys be able to do what they can do?" most people assume Midichlorians allow you to use the force and they are right, however everyone has them. The only thing numbers means is how easily you can channel and manipulate the Force.

Anakin and presumably Luke have so many that they don't need to train or work very hard to do what they do (by normal Jedi standards) whereas someone with a low midi count can indeed learn to do the same things, it is just more challenging.

To me refusing to believe that it makes sense is akin to someone saying "We didn't need to understand how fire worked! It just happened!" or that "We don't need to find out that everything in the universe is made of neutrons, protons and electrons etc." or "We don't need to seek for god" but we do, because knowing this gives us a greater understanding of said subject matter.

The Force is still as mysterious as it was before the midichlorians. The idea that they merely have transmitters in them that allow them to tap into it has not changed anything about the force whatsoever.

Try watching the movies in The Machete Order. That would be episodes 4 and 5 then episodes 2 and 3 and finish off with episode 6. In this order we have the Luke story up until that most famous of moments when he loses his grip. Then you get the flash back episodes explaining how it got to the point of making Luke lose his grip and finally you get that crowning achievement of everybody lived happily ever after while the furry cannibals danced. If you can clear your mind of pre conceived notions and past ret cons that will forever haunt us all it is a very entertaining background movie to a 12 hour gaming marathon. Midi chloriandinglehopperglutenlactose thingies don't get more than a single sentence with no explanation and this 1 alien with really floppy ears helps the empire get off to a good and legal start . I found it quite refreshing from a certain point of view. ( Machete Order is not my creation I found the reference on a blog.) Live long and Prosper or the Cylons might clone you then you could be a number 31 cause the guy doing the tattoo got it backwards.

edited for spelling durn spel chekker

Yoda: "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."

THIS is the Force, not some Mediwatsit germs!

And on a personal note: I always believed the more powerfull a Jedi or Sith became the more he used the force and the less he relied on his lightsaber. Did you see Yoda or Palpatine use a saber, in the trilogy? No. Because Their ally was teh force, and thats all they need.

To quote someone I heard somewhere, "It's part of the saga, deal with it"

Of the saga, part it might be, But no part it is in the original trilogy. Strong with the force the original movies are.

I accept them. As you say they are part of the canon, deal with it. I get peoples arguments about 'Oh but the mysticism' and I feel it's a bunch of bull really. The Jedi were around for thousands of years, at some point someone would have gone "What exactly makes these guys be able to do what they can do?" most people assume Midichlorians allow you to use the force and they are right, however everyone has them. The only thing numbers means is how easily you can channel and manipulate the Force.

Anakin and presumably Luke have so many that they don't need to train or work very hard to do what they do (by normal Jedi standards) whereas someone with a low midi count can indeed learn to do the same things, it is just more challenging.

To me refusing to believe that it makes sense is akin to someone saying "We didn't need to understand how fire worked! It just happened!" or that "We don't need to find out that everything in the universe is made of neutrons, protons and electrons etc." or "We don't need to seek for god" but we do, because knowing this gives us a greater understanding of said subject matter.

The Force is still as mysterious as it was before the midichlorians. The idea that they merely have transmitters in them that allow them to tap into it has not changed anything about the force whatsoever.

I dont agree with this.

The force to me is a more 'magical' view of taoism with active effects.

As a taoist i dont need a scientific explanation of the wu wei, i just try and live my life in a way that naturally finds balance with it, when im in tune with things it is, when im not its not. If i look too hard its harder to find.

But thats 'faith' for you, it doesnt require evidence. Thats why its faith and not science.

You might not like that and i matters little to me whether you do or not, although i'd rather it didnt upset you

But for people with faiths thats how it works, and 'the force' to me as a child and growing up as an adult was a 'faith' in a futuristic science fantasy setting.

So you didn't want a George Lucas bashing thread so you started another?

Low sigh.

Did you read what I wrote.

Hey did Imperial Assault ship yet?

So you didn't want a George Lucas bashing thread so you started another?

Low sigh.

Did you read what I wrote.

Hey did Imperial Assault ship yet?

You did bring up the medichlorians...

To be fair everyone was busy hating Jar Jar, so the midichlorians kind of snuck by. The broadsaber is just the most easily criticized part of the trailer.

I actually kind of like the broadsaber. It looks okay, and people are really overestimating the odds of those crossguards taking a bite out of the Sith's wrists. I'm not a huge fan of midichlorians because they contradict the idea that anyone with the right mindset can wield the Force, and they could easily have just had Qui Gon say that this kid is basically radiating power, which is incredible since he has no training or knowledge of the Force.

All force powers are mental, force push and pull are telekinesis as is the more powerful jumps, telepathy explains Jedi mind tricks as well as reading others emotions feelings or even the death of millions, having a small % of the population with more evolved brains able to tap into an energy field is fine, it's a lottery some get lucky some don't.

Having parasites controlling you really isn't, do they think? Is their some form of gestalt intelligence, is it them that decide your predilection towards light or dark...so many unanswered questions, also if they are a parasite then why are Jedi rare? If they can live in one member of a species there's no reason they can't live in every member.

Try watching the movies in The Machete Order. That would be episodes 4 and 5 then episodes 2 and 3 and finish off with episode 6. In this order we have the Luke story up until that most famous of moments when he loses his grip. Then you get the flash back episodes explaining how it got to the point of making Luke lose his grip and finally you get that crowning achievement of everybody lived happily ever after while the furry cannibals danced. If you can clear your mind of pre conceived notions and past ret cons that will forever haunt us all it is a very entertaining background movie to a 12 hour gaming marathon. Midi chloriandinglehopperglutenlactose thingies don't get more than a single sentence with no explanation and this 1 alien with really floppy ears helps the empire get off to a good and legal start . I found it quite refreshing from a certain point of view. ( Machete Order is not my creation I found the reference on a blog.) Live long and Prosper or the Cylons might clone you then you could be a number 31 cause the guy doing the tattoo got it backwards.

edited for spelling durn spel chekker

I loved the prequels!

They seemed awfully short, and it was odd that they were on the Auralnauts' Youtube channel, instead of disney or lucasfilm, but they were so funny!

Midichlorians spoiler

I am a true Star Wars FAN. I am George Lucas fan.

I'm sorry, but this phrase bugs me. There are Star Wars fans. The amount that they like or dislike of the franchise does not make them any more or less a true Star Wars fan than you. People have different opinions, that doesn't change that if they think they are a Star Wars fan, then they are one, even if they disagree with a "true" fan. It is hilariously ironic that the "true fan" is used to mark someone as snobbishly elite, which when one thinks about the common belief about sci-fi fans would be against such prejudice.

And to say that the Lucas of the PT did not lose something as a director, that just makes your "true fandom" a blindness.

It always astonishes me how many people don't get what midichlorians are. They ARE NOT the force! Also for anyone who thinks they were invented for the prequels, there's a quote floating around online where Lucas mentions them during the OT days.

They do serve several purposes besides the more detailed ones Qui-gon mentioned

1) Show how the force can be hereditary (but not exclusively hereditary)

2) Give a way to show how truly powerful someone is with the force, useful for both screening potential jedi to see if they have enough force potential, as well as showing just how extreme Anakin's force ability was. Some jedi could say, Anakin is really strong with the force, he must be the chosen one! But you could say the same thing for Yoda. Think of it like an IQ test, you can tell people who are smart or dumb, but IQ tests really put a number to the differences.

And for anyone who thinks lucas abandoned the "mysticism" of the force, go watch the mortis arc from clone wars, or the force arc with yoda from the bonus season. Lot of deep stuff there that could very likely have a part in the new movies.

I am a true Star Wars FAN. I am George Lucas fan.

I'm sorry, but this phrase bugs me. There are Star Wars fans. The amount that they like or dislike of the franchise does not make them any more or less a true Star Wars fan than you. People have different opinions, that doesn't change that if they think they are a Star Wars fan, then they are one, even if they disagree with a "true" fan.

And to say that the Lucas of the PT did not lose something as a director, that just makes your "true fandom" a blindness.

That term "true fan" was not directed anyone save myself. Your taking my personification of myself as a critique of others, which I can assure you it is not. The statement was solely for a micro autobiography pointing inwards and not outwards.

Perhaps I should have said, I am not a casual or occasional fan, but rather a dedicated and lifelong fan, would that be a better sentiment?

Lastly, wherein any of my statements here [or elsewhere] have I ever said Mr. Lucas may [or may not] have lost his way, Mr. Lucas is a talented and gifted man, of that there is no question. I would even call him a visionary back in the early days. But I also never made a blanket statement he was infallible not without fault.

But that was not the topic of the post.

I am simply stating that there is a lot I can excuse and abide in the Prequels, I could in a friendly manner argue for or against any criteria another fan could come with, but the demystification of The Force, that for me at least ... was painful.

And I will leave it at that.

Cheers to you Sithborg. Here's to the next part of The Saga, may our grand kids be us lucky as us and we all have glorious times ahead in a Galaxy Far, Far Away.

This is going to break the internet but, I don't think the original trilogy is all that much better compared to the new ones(not that they aren't better). There are a lot of good things but a lot of truly dreadful stuff as well with a good mix of bad acting in parts.

Are they great movies YES but the prequel never stood a chance with the huge expectations on them and I think if you could show someone the OT after removing the exact memory of what happened in them from their mind and told them they were a prequel they would have said they weren't as good as the original.

people need to remember as well that for the Jedi and their allies it was a dark age, many of them would have abandoned everything that it was to be a Jedi just to survive. Technology takes a step back in dark ages generally as well and I think they are well within their rights to do what they did.

Take JJ Abrahams star trek reboot, what was star trek doing before he came along....... Star Trek Online........... awkward silence

What is ACTUALLY wrong with the prequels? Mostly your fragile misconceptions of what Star Wars is or isn't people get far to dogmatic with these kinds of things and I believe the star wars story was very much all in Lucas' head in the main and it was his story to change and determine I mean the first movie was called Episode IV.......

The way I interpreted it was that in the past they thought the Force could be measured in something scientific, or, you know... measurable. They named their theorized molecules "midichlorians" to try to describe how some people could be more in tune to the Force than others. Just like how science is constantly changing for us in the real world now, how things we think are true now weren't true in the past and may not be true in the future, everyone disregarded that midichlorian idea when they discovered that the Force was a living presence and not a measurable substance. It clearly was not done intentionally but I like the fact that Yoda and Obi-Wan both use similar terminology when describing the Force by saying that it "penetrates" and "binds/surrounds" us, and that they make sure to say that it's a living thing. As if these terms have come to be accepted as descriptions reflecting new discoveries in the behavior of the Force. Yoda points out that they aren't "crude matter," they're beings. Living beings. To me, that not only talks about the rocks that they're looking at in that scene, but it also retcons all of the mumbojumbo about midichlorians by saying that Jedi aren't defined or measured by matter, they're defined by how they feel the Force.

Finally, I just want to point out that Star Wars is a story. Six parts (soon to be more), one whole. Everything doesn't all apply at once. You wouldn't read a history book about and say "Well this book says Hitler is alive here, then later on it says that Hitler is dead, so which is it? I don't know what to believe anymore." It's all taken care of within itself.

We're also all massively overlooking the ludicrous 'immaculate conception' that midichlorians can produce.

scmi skywalker (sp?) claims annakin had no father... hes a virgin birth... essentially that makes Luke and Leia quite non human too but leia has nothing like Lukes power.

The only part about the reveal about midichloreans that bothers me is that if they are what gives a jedi his ability to use the force, and they can be measured, couldn't they be replicated or transfered? This means that the special nature of the jedi can become something as simple as a booster shot...

I would have liked it if they could detect midichloreans but could only establish that there is a relationship between them and someone using the force. Like a waste by product or something - not the "it" particle.

When Darth Tyranus, AKA Count Dooku, killed Sifo-Dyas he transfused the Jedi Masters blood into the cyborg, General Grievous. Was this to transfer the high concentration of midi-chlorians?