yeah but thats not what the canon of film shows is it.

everyones whooping it up, peacfully dancing and fireworks are going off.

I've seen and been in a riot (bradford 1995)... don't look like a riot to me.

I say 'been in', our kitchen window was shot out in a drive by and our student house barricades ourselves in and then went for a wander when everything stopped being on fire....

As for the coruscant celebration... its clearly a city wide huge party thats been going on for a bit... unless everyone was stockpiling party supplies in case the emperor had a heart attack or 'road to damascus' episode

Honestly, its clear that lucas put those scenes in to say 'look everyone is happy and evil is defeated' to remove any ambiguity and , i imagine, to shoot down any EU stuff he didnt like about continued war.

But its clearly a 'wrapping the film up for idiots' bit who woudl otherwise be going 'so have the rebels totally won then?'

Back on track.

So i like the idea of

IMPS

Defender (min 1)

Tie Ints (must have shield upgrade) [in the EU its stated that later ints are fitted with shields as they cant keep up with replacing lossses)

VT49s

Rebels

A wings (no prototypes or test pilots... they'd all be too old or dead by then)

B wings (at least one E2 for every normal)

E wings

YT2400

I want it to *look* like a 'future war' of the star wars universe... where it would be going if the war kept on and on and it would be like 50 years later but no one had the resources for new designes *but* using available models.

Now the question is

Who is dead?

well everyone from 'yavin' other than Luke Wedge and Keyan

So for rebels...

No bigs, porkins, dutch....

who else

No vader obviously but the imperial 'named pilots' are largely all EU, do we see many die in the films who we know the name of who are on cards.

Does jendon survive endor?

For the Rebels, no Biggs, Dutch, Porkins, Garven, Ten Numb, Ibtisam, Arvel. Horton could probably have special rules allowing him to be in a B-wing. Also, Wedge, Wes, Tycho, and Hobbie are all retired, but they do come out of retirement around this time (because of the Vong, so I don't know if they are still retired at this point in your game or not). Also, at this point, Kyle and Corran are both Jedi and not in the military, but you can probably squeeze them in if you want.

For the Empire, No TIE Pilots, Vader, Soontir Fel (he defected to the Rebel's and then left for the Chiss at this point so he works for neither side), Tetran Cowell (He as an actor hired by a warlord to impersonate Fel), Vessery (he goes Rambo), Ysanne Isard (long dead), Moff Jerjerodd, Phantom pilots. I think that's everyone, but you could have rules allowing both Turr and Maarek to fly Defenders.

Oh btw, Jake is also from Yavin, he was in a different attack group meant to create a diversion. He doesn't appear in any source past RotJ, and neither does Gemmer, so their status is unknown.

EDIT: I just read the part about 50 years. You'd be surprised, Wedge and Tycho are still blowing things up in 45 ABY

Actually, you could move the game back to 40 ABY, and have the 2nd Galactic Civil War, but that might be to complicated. It was a very interesting war because at first the rebels (called the Confederation) were the bad guys, and the Galactic Alliance (the reformed New Republic) the good guys, but Darth Caedus seized power of the Galactic Alliance, at which point the Jedi made their own faction with the Hapes, and a little bit of an alliance with the Mando-Verpine Alliance. (they both fought the GA) The Empire was at first sided with the GA, but when Caedus' apprentice killed the admiral, the new one sided with the Jedi and Alliance in Exile.

yeah but thats not what the canon of film shows is it.

everyones whooping it up, peacfully dancing and fireworks are going off.

I've seen and been in a riot (bradford 1995)... don't look like a riot to me.

Bear in mind the Empire's an authoritarian regime who strongly disapproves of "whooping it up" over the death of their Beloved Leader.

The people who set off the fireworks were executed by firing squad.

Yeah im sure, but thats my point.

The scenes put in were clearly there as a 'crystal clear' ITS ALL OVER message, the empire is over.

Its clearly Lucas saying 'galactic party' but that just wouldnt happen.

And the question was 'when did the empire collapse' and i was saying that Lucas clearly wants you to think it was while bits of the death star were still falling onto endor

I agree.... if someone did start a party that soon on coruscant then they would be put down brutally and swiftly in a planet with total govenment control and martial law and a military with a command structure very much still in control. But the party he shows is like *global* and clearly would never have got that big without also in the background there being a riot being shown or a building or two on fire.

Its clearly lazy resolution

And the total disappearance of the Imperial fleet (in there from the start) isn't?

But the party he shows is like *global*

It shows a city square.

I also noticed someone suggested using homebrew special rules. If thats the case if you have Star Hunter TIE Interceptors I would allow them having a plus 2 red dice and or maybe count all red manuvers on dial as white since the Star Hunter was the most advanced fighter you see the Empire use until you get into the the era that takes place 130 years after yavin.

Five attack interceptors? Kinda excessive. A Starhunter's a shielded interceptor with heavy weapons (torpedo/missile slot most likely) but it's also fairly post-Vong.

yeah but one of the celebrations is on CORUSCANT!

Legendswise it was a riot. The Empire was in disarray after its power structure got decapitated. One man had set himself up to hold all the strings and when he died the strings got dropped.

The riot was quite violently surpressed soon after by Isard.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Coruscant_Uprising

Well the points can be rasied. I think it should have a cannon slot. In the lore its carrying some real heavy cannons, missile and torp launchers were easily attached to Fighters and Interceptors in the past.

yeah but thats not what the canon of film shows is it.

everyones whooping it up, peacfully dancing and fireworks are going off.

I've seen and been in a riot (bradford 1995)... don't look like a riot to me.

The funny thing is after Disney bought LFL and everything else with it, GL was asked who the enemies be in these films. He said he never believed the Empire would fall over night. He sold Disney his WIP scripts for ep 7-12 or 15

When exactly does the empire collapse anyway ?

How is that for an answer XD

I'm just going to go against everyone and suggest that it isn't impossible that the Empire surrendered. All, and I mean all, power had been centralised under Palpatine, and he would have made very sure that none of his underlings were strong or ambitious enough to supplant him. Look at the incompetence of Fleet officers in episodes IV and V.

Rather than fighting to the last for a dead dictator, why would any commander not transfer his loyalties in return for keeping his rank and privileges.

For historical references one might mention Marshals Soult and Ney.

I'm not saying the semi-independent Warlord idea is impossible, just not likely to be the norm. And as for Coruscant? All those disenfranchised Senators at the ready to step into the power vacuum? They would be so busy proclaiming that they had been rebels all along that the planet go along with it to try and shut them up.

Disclaimer, I have only watched the 'proper' films, and the ones proclaimed as prequels. There are whole series and comics out there of which I know nothing, the above is just my take on the universe.

I'm just going to go against everyone and suggest that it isn't impossible that the Empire surrendered. All, and I mean all, power had been centralised under Palpatine, and he would have made very sure that none of his underlings were strong or ambitious enough to supplant him. Look at the incompetence of Fleet officers in episodes IV and V.

Rather than fighting to the last for a dead dictator, why would any commander not transfer his loyalties in return for keeping his rank and privileges.

For historical references one might mention Marshals Soult and Ney.

I'm not saying the semi-independent Warlord idea is impossible, just not likely to be the norm. And as for Coruscant? All those disenfranchised Senators at the ready to step into the power vacuum? They would be so busy proclaiming that they had been rebels all along that the planet go along with it to try and shut them up.

Disclaimer, I have only watched the 'proper' films, and the ones proclaimed as prequels. There are whole series and comics out there of which I know nothing, the above is just my take on the universe.

Well some of what you proposed did happen, as a whole the reasons the Empire wouldnt surrender.

*The majority is not evil and is full of people and aliens fighting to keep their way of life intact.

* The war has become personal, REBS take joy in killing IMPs and viceversa. Grand Admirals except 1 are executed because the New Republic considers high command responsible for every military action taken agianst REBs and I think super the use of weapons as well.

When Baron Fel defected REBs still wanted him dead because of how many REBs he killed. They didnt care that he trully beleved the Empire pre ROTJ was good.

* The people who built the first freedom star gained lots of experience that was used to design and build a trully super deadly freedom star 2 that dwarfed the freedom star 1 in every way.

That being said Sidious has use for everytype of person in his Empire. The worst he made sure died on the DS1 while it did damage to the REBs. ANH caused many things to happen.

*Having the freedom star destroyed gave motivation / justification to hyperbuild up IMP forces

*Seeing how devestating the damage was caused by the majority of IMPs to be more unified and to take the REBs as a serious threat. All true evil rebs like ZC or Hutts are to a degree lumped together with the Alliance.

*After ROTJ the process the Empire would be going through would be taught of as the purification. The true good IMPs stayed loyal to the Empire, Rogue IMPs killed REBS, other enemies, and eachother.

In the end the IMP civilwar was very sim to the conflict with USSR vs USSR over who could get Hittler first. Instead of Hittler it was the IMP throne they fought over.

And the total disappearance of the Imperial fleet (in there from the start) isn't?

But the party he shows is like *global*

It shows a city square.

With as far as i can recall fireworks going off up to the horizon....

Just checked X-Wing: Mercy Kill, and they have A-Wings, and E-Wings in service, though on a more backwater type of planet. The X-Wing had undergone huge upgrades to speed, durability, maneuverability, and firepower in the XJ model, and was probably the dominant fighter model of the time.