MC40a Light Cruiser:

(Computer modeled image:)

I like to imagine this ship more like 2 parts, than the one part sections the more modern images show. there is the forward top module, and the lower rear section that is "along for the ride" (Being pulled by the engines, of course firmly attached to the forward section, it just lacks a lot of the machinery and is where passengers are for cruises). I dunno, seems more interesting of a ship when viewed that way, less cigar shaped like the rest of the fleet.

ANYWAYS:

The Nebulon B is a 300 meter long vessel, and the Assault Frigate MrkII is 700 meters, and Wookieepedia says it is between 500-600 meters. Lets go 500, keeps a nice 200m jump between the classes.

Armament:

-14 Turbolasers

-18 Ion Cannons

-2 Bombardment Missile Launchers

Also equipped with a hanger that holds 1 squadron or 24 fighters (wtf make up your mind already wiki's)

You might notice the lack of any and all point defense guns, like laser cannons. That might just be an over-site of the TIE fighter game where the big ships weren't really supposed to shoot you down. Oops.

The standard battery for the rebel alliance seems to be 6 guns, so this ship has 3 ion batteries, and 2 turbolaser batteries, with 2 guns left over. That means 1 battery of ion cannons and turbolasers on each side (Port and Starboard) probably mounted on the back half of the ship, behind the front engines.

If I had to guess (and I do) on where 3rd Ion Cannon Battery went, it would be on the front of the ship at the prow. The remaining two turbolasers would either be their or in dorsal and ventral mounts singularly to at least provide coverage of those areas. Based on the "wings" it seems that the tip is a massive missile launcher, pointed forwards.

If you add it all up, you have 1 battery and the missiles facing the forward arc, 2 batteries on each of the side arcs, and maybe a blue or red die in the rear arc.

For Shields and Hull, it seems to be well endowed, and would be tanky and probably have a moncalamarian trait about migating critical hits because of redundancy systems and complex thick hull (MC30c would be the only exception)

Overall analysis is that this is a midrage ship with firepower less than the Assault Frigate but maybe greater resistance dispite the smaller size. God help it against TIE bombers though...

Don't forget it also had **** good shields. That makes up for some of it's other weak spots. X-Wing Alliance made it far deadlier than it ever was in TIE Fighter or X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter. Of course the warhead launcher was always a pain, even in TIE Fighter. It'll have to be screened by fighters though, otherwise like you said TIE Bombers would waste it fast.

Ah, thanks for the info! Anybody, what did I miss, and do you have anything to add about the vindicators counterpart?

Don't forget it also had **** good shields. That makes up for some of it's other weak spots.

I love that aspect of Mon Calamari design, especially the converted ships that comprised the bulk of the Rebellion's cruisers up to Endor. The shield redundancy and strength allowed them to wear down the limited shields on Imperial ships and still emerge without too much damage--which is good since they are so notoriously difficult to repair if any damage did get through.

I just like shields, I guess, since I wouldn't want to feel expendable, and neither should my ships!

MC40a Light Cruiser:

(Computer modeled image:)

I like to imagine this ship more like 2 parts, than the one part sections the more modern images show. there is the forward top module, and the lower rear section that is "along for the ride" (Being pulled by the engines, of course firmly attached to the forward section, it just lacks a lot of the machinery and is where passengers are for cruises). I dunno, seems more interesting of a ship when viewed that way, less cigar shaped like the rest of the fleet.

ANYWAYS:

The Nebulon B is a 300 meter long vessel, and the Assault Frigate MrkII is 700 meters, and Wookieepedia says it is between 500-600 meters. Lets go 500, keeps a nice 200m jump between the classes.

Armament:

-14 Turbolasers

-18 Ion Cannons

-2 Bombardment Missile Launchers

Also equipped with a hanger that holds 1 squadron or 24 fighters (wtf make up your mind already wiki's)

You might notice the lack of any and all point defense guns, like laser cannons. That might just be an over-site of the TIE fighter game where the big ships weren't really supposed to shoot you down. Oops.

The standard battery for the rebel alliance seems to be 6 guns, so this ship has 3 ion batteries, and 2 turbolaser batteries, with 2 guns left over. That means 1 battery of ion cannons and turbolasers on each side (Port and Starboard) probably mounted on the back half of the ship, behind the front engines.

If I had to guess (and I do) on where 3rd Ion Cannon Battery went, it would be on the front of the ship at the prow. The remaining two turbolasers would either be their or in dorsal and ventral mounts singularly to at least provide coverage of those areas. Based on the "wings" it seems that the tip is a massive missile launcher, pointed forwards.

If you add it all up, you have 1 battery and the missiles facing the forward arc, 2 batteries on each of the side arcs, and maybe a blue or red die in the rear arc.

For Shields and Hull, it seems to be well endowed, and would be tanky and probably have a moncalamarian trait about migating critical hits because of redundancy systems and complex thick hull (MC30c would be the only exception)

Overall analysis is that this is a midrage ship with firepower less than the Assault Frigate but maybe greater resistance dispite the smaller size. God help it against TIE bombers though...

1: Point defense weapons on Star Wars capital ships are a rareity. Especially in the old days. Back then point defense weapons were only seen on specialized craft intended for anti-fighter or escort roles, and craft who who were supposed to be staying out of range of other capships

2: The MC40A is outgunned by an Assault frigate on the turbo laser front but it has three major edges over the Assault frigate. First, as was mentioned, it has an onboard fighter complement with hangers allowing it to carry those fighters through hyperspace, and repair them on board the ship. Second, and also mentioned before, it has incredible shielding for its size. And finally it carries a lot of ion cannons, more then an MC80 in TC's estimate, which makes it vastly superior for missions calling for capturing ships rather then destroying them.

Close, the MC80 had twenty. Twenty dual heavy anti-ship Ion Cannons. These ion cannons are single and medium/light weapons. Quality has a quantity of its own. So it maybe smaller than the assault frigate, but your right and I bet it would have equal or better shielding and defensive actions. But the damage output would be mediocre at best.

Also, in capital ship warfare, ion cannons are different than the planetary one the rebels on both had. Those peace loving hippys underpowered the thing so it wouldn't harm any butterflies that might be in the pulses path as it ascended skyward.

REAL Ion Cannons work a tad differently. They deliver a huge amount of ionized energy and plasma ton the target, frying and igniting electronic equipment and atmosphere. Where turbo lasers are percision weapons cutting and slicing open armored plates, ion cannons are sledge hammers, boiling off the durasteel and cooking the crew underneath it with heat and radiation.

I can see ion cannons being a big crit giver in this game, and you could technicly disable a ship by critting it until the systems don't work anymore, but its gonna be a heck of a repair bill.

Really? Because as far as I can recall Ion Cannons in Star Wars have always been portrayed as disabling electronics and ships rather then inflicting high levels of physical damage like boiling off the hull d coking the crew. Even the super Ion cannon Malevolence carried disabled the target rather then destroying them.In fact the only times I remember it being implied that Ion Cannons destroyed a ship rather then disabling it was in the first X-Wing novel where an X-Wing took a direct hit from a Planetary Defense Ion Cannon, and one The Old Republic novel whose author and editor apparently forgot to research the effects of Star Wars Ion Cannons.

CC that right there could be the big positive for Mon Cal cruisers in general, if FFG does it like that.

I'm having trouble thinking of something from the classic era that would be a good counterpart to the Vindicator. I keep thinking of the Rebel's Assault Frigate from X-Wing Alliance and various other sources. (not the one from Empire at War) But it only had a few external docking ports or arms or something for ships and fighters, like the Neb-B at the end of Empire Strikes Back.

I'll have to go dig up a list of the rebel ships from the old Rebellion game. Since most of those were retconned into Separatist ships from the Clone Wars. Some of them even show up in the new Tarkin novel (slight spoiler sorry), a great read if anyone has the chance. If that book is any indication of the direction they're going with the new EU then we are in good hands. It also seems that not so much is lost from the old EU as we thought.

Well if you want to get technical the only two Ion cannons ever shown are the ones on the Malevoience and the rebel's cannon at Hoth... unless there is another mention of them in one of the new novels, the ship based ion cannons may not be there any more.

They have never shown anything but turbo lasers firing on screen.

I know it sucks... but going to 'Legends' for accurate ship armament may give you untrustworthy results.

Later

Legends is still canon until directly contradicted by new stuff.

So at present, all ship stats/armaments/tech are 100% as canon as they always were. No need to worry there!

Actually, according to Senior Editor of LucusBooks Jennifer Heddle the legends is NOT canon and we can expect many changes to the EU in both Rebels and in Star Wars episode VII.

In effect they pushed the EU down into the non-canon category because they were writing new stories that are going to overwrite what was in many of those books, games and comics.

The only true canon is now limited to The 6 movies the Clone Wars Cartoon, the Rebels cartoon and a hand full of new novels and will soon include movie VII.

In this case, it is noteworthy to mention that in all of the currently canon material, no ship (except the Malevoience) has ever been seen, mentioned or eluded to having fired ion cannons.

However you are correct that we need not worry... or at least probably not... because it appears by the fact that both X-Wing and Armada are using EU ships... that these games are taking place in the "Legends" universe... Which I am fine with... its that much more cool stuff for them to bring to life for us... and we can each choose what to use in our games and what not to.

Later

Fair enough, i stand corrected!

I'm glad that FFG are using the EU material regardless though, it's by far the more sensible route.

It only makes sense that they would go for the EU... there is so much more to use... and a lot of it has technical explanations that you don't see in pure canon.

With all of the EU characters, ships and stories available it would be severely limiting to only use pure canon.

Later

Oh... for the record... MC-40a Cruiser is a sweet looking ship

It would, it'd be madness.

Back onto the subject of the MC40a....i'm not sure it's really a counterpart to the Vindicator, at least as written. It's (admittedly very strong) shielding aside, it is MASSIVELY undergunned in comparison to the Vidicator, and carries half the fighter complement of even the smallest load in any Vindicator configuration.

Even with a potential (we dont actually know) edge in speed and agility, thgey aren't really on the same footing.

Then again, based on the size and the descriptions, there is an argument that the known armament is incorrect, as it came just from video games (which deliberately reduced numbers of guns for playability reasons, and this is confirmed). If we double the number (or more) of guns, it suddenly starts looking more of a candidate. it has the same role profile (lone operations and line ship escort), same size, and importantly similar crew numbers (which makes no sense based on the armament and fighter complement as written).

Something to consider....all stats from JUST videogames need to be taken with a great degree of scepticism.

I seriously doubt Disney will publish anything stating that the canon ship designss, whether canon currently or becoming so in the future, which had Ion cannons don't have them any more.

Well that's the thing RogueCorona... they don't have to say they don't have Ion cannons anymore. By reducing the EU to Non-Cannon they have in effect determined that aside from Malevoience ships never had them. (due to Ion Cannons only being used 2 times in the, now official canon... and only one was ship based) they have effectively determined that there are no ship based Ion cannons and the Ion cannons that do exist are huge machines that require massive ships to carry them or are ground based.

Again that is judging from what is seen ON SCREEN... which is now mostly what canon consists of. So unless Ship mounted Ion Cannons are ADDED in "Rebels" or Star Wars Episode VII a person could only conclude that they are not commonly mounted on ships like turbo laser batteries... because again they were never seen/discussed/eluded to in any on screen movie or episode.

I cannot speak to the few Novels that have been released so far, I have not read them yet. If the Tarkin Novel or a New Dawn (along with anything else that has been released which counts as canon) has Ion Cannon batteries on Cruisers and Star Destroyers then they are canon... And I would be wrong. But From what has been observed on screen to date tere is nothing to suggest that Ion Cannons are ship mounted like turbo lasers.

However as stated before this does not change the "Legends" technical stuff... if anything by separating the EU they have also protected it from changes in the official canon... If we simply say that we are playing in the Legends universe we can use the EU tech info and create our own legends... Kind of what Abrems did to Star Trek.

Later

Uhm.... anyway,

Always seemed to me that the MC40 was the standard light cruiser for the rebellion, at least from a TIE-Fighter / X-Wing perspective. These are the workhorse cruisers unsung and not remembered but were always there doing the work of the majestic MC80s but were not high-profile enough to warrant the bigger ships' attention. They're common enough that we see one in the hands of the Dimok government in TIE Fighter (The Falaricae ).

So I'm hoping this could be a decent middle-weight punching ship a little lesser than the assault frigate, but respectable enough to hold its own against a Victory.

So I'm hoping this could be a decent middle-weight punching ship a little lesser than the assault frigate, but respectable enough to hold its own against a Victory.

I agree with the other bits, but this part confused me. The assault frigate looks (and should be) less powerful than the Victory, so if you want this to be below THAT....it's gonna take a pasting, not hold its own.

Well that's the thing RogueCorona... they don't have to say they don't have Ion cannons anymore. By reducing the EU to Non-Cannon they have in effect determined that aside from Malevoience ships never had them. (due to Ion Cannons only being used 2 times in the, now official canon... and only one was ship based) they have effectively determined that there are no ship based Ion cannons and the Ion cannons that do exist are huge machines that require massive ships to carry them or are ground based.

Again that is judging from what is seen ON SCREEN... which is now mostly what canon consists of. So unless Ship mounted Ion Cannons are ADDED in "Rebels" or Star Wars Episode VII a person could only conclude that they are not commonly mounted on ships like turbo laser batteries... because again they were never seen/discussed/eluded to in any on screen movie or episode.

I cannot speak to the few Novels that have been released so far, I have not read them yet. If the Tarkin Novel or a New Dawn (along with anything else that has been released which counts as canon) has Ion Cannon batteries on Cruisers and Star Destroyers then they are canon... And I would be wrong. But From what has been observed on screen to date tere is nothing to suggest that Ion Cannons are ship mounted like turbo lasers.

However as stated before this does not change the "Legends" technical stuff... if anything by separating the EU they have also protected it from changes in the official canon... If we simply say that we are playing in the Legends universe we can use the EU tech info and create our own legends... Kind of what Abrems did to Star Trek.

Later

Perhaps but it would IMO be very weird if the have Ion grenades (The droid poppers from The Clone Wars) Ion pistols (R2 gets shot with one on Tatooine early in A New Hope) and planetary grade Ion Cannons but the only ship mounted Ion cannons were the monster ones on Malevolence

Strength can be measured in other ways, like in fighter control or a smaller command rating (so it reacts quicker to commands). When writing I was actually imagining these would be some kind of counterpart to the gladiator, which looks like a decent cruiser and its on a smaller base than the victory. So maybe a small-base ship that hits like an assault frigate?

So, looking at the nebulon b and the assault frigate, I noticed some problems...

The 300m nebulon b has 5 hull, and the 700m assault frigate has 6 hull. The Corvette (I like to call it a corvette squadron, I imagine that it is 2-3 working as a group) has 4 hull.

I don't think that they left room .

Well, suppose it has 6 hull, like the assault frigate. Where are its guns and shields? How do we make it different than the assault frigate?

It is a complete moncal ship, I'd give it a command rating of 3. In the games, I assume its only seen working with a squadron for fighters? Squadron command of 1. Engineering of 4, basicly once in combat that's the only command you will ever do.

For sheilds I suggest something like 2/4/2 or 2/4/1, the layout would at least make it unique.

Same for attack: 2 blue dice in the front, 4 dice of some combination on the side, and 1 black die on the rear.

So 2/4/1, and you could angle sideways for 6 dice at medium range. Anti-squadron rating of 1, that's what X-wings are for.

Give it defensive tokens like that of the victory.

Looking at what I have written, it seems to be a very min-maxer type of ship, and I don't know if that's good for the game yet. But I'm not an ffg designer, so what do i know.

If you could stat this ship and stay in between the nebulon and the assault frigate, I want to know! I am curious on what you guys have to say on this subject.

RogueCorona, you are correct that ion like hand weapons were in use, but none have ever been shown being fired by run of the mill cruisers... The only ship to have one was a prototype and the mechanism was enormous. Its possible that for an ion cannon to be effective against ships that it needs to be very large with massive ammounts of power... In any case ion cannons are never even eluded to being part of a standard ship's weaponry... maybe its like having flash bang gernades and tasers but not ship stunning deck guns.

Corellian Corvette. From reading the MC40a's stats I think you could make it a match for the Victory by slightly beefing the shields, increase the maneuverability and decreasing weapon output and hull slightly. That would be in compareison to the victory. That's what I would probably recommend without putting too fine a point on it... Possibly also add a Mon cal ship advantage of being able to ignore a crit... To represent the redundancy of those ships