First off, this is very much a theoretical post just to float a few ideas. Yes Armada is very different from X-Wing and it would completely change the game to try and use X-wing to "zoom in" on fighter action, but for those who might be interested in talking about such a thing then here is a discussion. If you don't like the idea at all and think this is a terrible idea then feel free to move on to the next thread

The way I see it, because capital ships move and attack seperately from fighters, and because fighters must engage other fighters over capital ships if they are within range, it presents an opportunity when only fighter squadrons are involved to have a seperate 3x3 table that X-Wing miniatures can be used to resolve that battle, then returning to the larger game.

The key problems that we would probably have to face might be:

How many miniatures are in a squadron? And what skill level?

Would Luke Skywalkers X-wing squadron consist of him and two other X-Wings? Would they be Rookie Pilots? Or Red Squadron Pilots? Would Luke, or any of the pilots get any upgrade cards like hero abilities, torpedoes or R2 Units? (Im tempted to think no).

What would the TIE fighters be? Probably not Academy TIE pilots for going with the lore - maybe black squadron pilots?

If a squadron of x-wings has 5 hull points in Armada, and a squadron of TIE fighters has 3 hull points, how can we link that to the values in X-Wing? One suggestion might be a squadron of TIE fighters is worth 1 Armada hull point each, equalling 3 fighters in the X-Wing system.

But then we face a problem with the X-Wings, obviously to follow the same system, 5 X-wings will be grossly over powered against 3 TIE fighters using the X-wing system, so we would need an adjustment. Perhaps the X-wing squadron is only 3 fighters, with the first one being worth only 1 Armada hull point in total, and the other two being worth 2 armada hull points each, one point representing the fighters hull, and the other its shields.

EDIT - See reply a couple below for a completely different idea which might work better than this!

If we work it out based on the ratio of 13 points for a generic X-wing squadron and 8 points for a generic TIE squadron, (roughly 2/3rds of the X-wing cost), then if we had 3 red squadron pilots at a total of 69 points, 2/3rds of that is 46 points, which split amongst 3 TIE fighters is 15.3 points each - which puts us in the relm of Nightbeast and winged gundark. So lets look then at 3 rookie X-Wing pilots for a total of 63 points, 2/3rds of which is 42 points, divided by 3 TIE fighters is 14 points each, so we could have 3 Rookie X-wings and 3 black squadron pilots.

If we look at the hero versions though with Luke and Howlrunner, its 20 points to 16, so the imperials are 80% of the rebel points. So if we had Luke and 2 Red Squadron pilots, thats 74 points total, 80% of which is 59.2, less 18 for Howlrunner, leaves 41.2, divided amongst the other 2 TIE pilots gives us 20.6 points each, which is way too much, so we need to reduce the points again.

So if we do Luke and 2 Rookie Pilots, thats 70 points, 80% of which is 56, less howlrunner, leaves 19 points still - too many still.

But what if we remove the heroes before we look at the points comparison? If we already said that 3 rookie X-wings and 3 Black Squadron TIE fighters might equate to the base cards, would it be usable to just replace one of those ships with the nominated hero?

We would also need to factor in that X-wing is a lot slower than Armada, so perhaps 3 turns of X-wing equates to a single fighter action in Armada?

We would also need to figure out how to handle incoming fire from capital ships outside the engagement if it went over a single Armada turn? Perhaps if X number of fighters are destroyed via capital ship fire, the owning player decides which model/s to sacrifice from the fighter battle?

We could do some really cool things to bring the tactical manuvering of Armada into X-wing, with the player who is defending ships being placed within range 2 of the centre of the mat, facing the direction of travel to match the heading of the squadron on the armada mat.

The attacking ships can then be placed on the edge matching the direction of the attacking ships on the Armada table - so it brings real opportunities for flanking attacks. In addition if extra squadrons then engage, they can simply be brought onto the table from the appropriate direction as they join the engagement?

Be interesting to know if anyone else is tempted by this and what other factors we would have to consider? As mentioned at the top of the post - this idea wont appeal to everyone, and noone is saying you have to do it, but if you have a positive contribution then please feel free!

I think this is a really cool and workable idea. I have seen it proposed in this forum before (possibly by you) Defiantly something I think would work very well in a campaign.

The question you proposed is a good one though... How do you know which types and costs of fighters to give a squadron/fighter group. I was thinking along the same lines as you. Each fighter group is three ships and their point values are determined by the cost of the squadron in Armada. I will want the game in hand before I try to determine the "exchange rate" between games just to be sure I am not missing anything.

I do think though that the cost of the squadron leaders in armada also improve the wing men in the group.

Just my thoughts so far...

Later

I do think though that the cost of the squadron leaders in armada also improve the wing men in the group.

Just my thoughts so far...

Later

While I agree with the idea behind this, we would need to do quite a bit of play testing to look at the effects around it

Just had another way of thinking about it.

The Armada X-Wings have 5 "health" and the X-Wing X-Wing's have 3 hull and 2 shields, so 5 "hits" total.

The Armada TIE fighters have 3 "health" and the X-Wing TIE Fighters have 3 hull and 0 sheilds, so 3 "hits" total

So if we read the Armada dial as the damage to each ship - being that even when damaged the squadron still attacks with the same dice, then we could go, Here is an X-Wing squadron with health 4, so it is 3 fighters each with one shield missing already from previous fire. Or here is a TIE fighter squadron of health 1, it is 3 (or more) TIE Fighters each with a single hull point remaining.

So then we have more freedom to balance the squadron sizes and pilot skill levels because looking at it as an indication of overall damage we can have more than 3 TIE fighters in a squadron (see first post about 3 health = 3 TIE's).

I'll preface this by saying that I don't plan to do this in my games, but I'm all for theoretical discussion.

I'd suggest leaning toward fewer ships represented per armada squadron.

Assuming all the fighters in the core set are used, and if they all end up clashing together on the big board, that's a lot of squadrons. With 3 X-wing bases per armada squadron and you're likely to start having a very crowded board, not to mention straining/exceeding the collections of the 2 players between 12 x-wings and 18 ties.

With the ease of engaging enemy squadrons it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility for all fighters to become embroiled in a single massive furball.

I love the idea of a large, involved, very complex game.

The problem is that I think that most people do not, and they are not willing to invest the coordination, time and attention that it would require to really make it happen. I think that those who do try to make something like this happen, will find themselves disappointed in the people whom they set it up for.

Or, maybe I just hang around with too many people with short attention spans.

My friend and are planning just this, at least in small games

I think it's important not to over complicate things, or it'll devolve into a mess.

How many miniatures? Well....a "canon" squadron is 12, but that would be silly. I would suggest 1 Armada squadron be represented by 3 x-wing ships.

- Easily playable

- Heroes would have more impact, as they should

What skill? Your proportional system seems spot on , and I prefer the"just upgrade 1 to a hero" system. Quicker, which means better.

No upgrades....more playable quickly, and no need to pick all sorts of cards.

No need to link the values from Armada. You'll note that Armada x-wings have 5 damage...same as x-wing ones. Ditto with ties. 3 x-wings in Armada have the exact same ratio of damage points to 3 Ties as 1 squad in Armada does to 1 Tie squadron. With capital ship fire hitting them, just work out how many damage points each fighter has by dividing by 3, then every X damage they take, 1 fighter dies.

The amount of turns ed have to play test a bit, but 3 x-wing = 1 Armada has a good feel.

I love the idea of using the headings in Armada to Mach that of the x-wing board!

This will slow things down enormously of course, but would be fantastic for either small games, or long term multi-day ones.

Also, far too excited by this game. Just typed that whol reply on my phone because got too excited to wait 5 minutes to get on the PC lol

I have to agree, I think small representative squadrons will be best, 3-5 fighters maximum otherwise it will take so long that we might as well be playing a game of X-Wing

Also agree that it should be fairly rookie or general pilots with only the named hero on the squadron card.

Let me know if I mis-interperated your explaination, are you suggesting that say there were four tie fighters, (each has 3 hull), if the imperials go into a fighter battle with 1 squadron hit point already gone (so 2 remaining), you would times the 1 hit point by the number of fighters, so in this case 4, to equal four damage that would need to be dealt prior to the start of the X-Wing mini game? The defending player could then choose if they destroyed one fighter, and had one damage on another and two undamaged, or if they shared the 4 hits against all the fighters at one each?

If we said another example, an X-Wing squadron with Luke Skywalker, has 3 of the 5 hit points remaining on its Armada dial. It is represented in the X-Wing battle by 3 X-wings (including Luke as one of them). 2 hit points down x 3 ships = 6 damage that needs to be allocated. So you could have one X-Wing completely destroyed (having taken 5 hits - 2 shield/3 Hull) and one shield (from 6th Hit) removed off a second one and Luke undamaged, or you could have all 3 X-Wings taking two hits each so starting with no shields.

Sounds like it could make for some cool variations in play

My friend and are planning just this, at least in small games

I think it's important not to over complicate things, or it'll devolve into a mess.

How many miniatures? Well....a "canon" squadron is 12, but that would be silly. I would suggest 1 Armada squadron be represented by 3 x-wing ships.
- Easily playable
- Heroes would have more impact, as they should

What skill? Your proportional system seems spot on , and I prefer the"just upgrade 1 to a hero" system. Quicker, which means better.

No upgrades....more playable quickly, and no need to pick all sorts of cards.

No need to link the values from Armada. You'll note that Armada x-wings have 5 damage...same as x-wing ones. Ditto with ties. 3 x-wings in Armada have the exact same ratio of damage points to 3 Ties as 1 squad in Armada does to 1 Tie squadron. With capital ship fire hitting them, just work out how many damage points each fighter has by dividing by 3, then every X damage they take, 1 fighter dies.

The amount of turns ed have to play test a bit, but 3 x-wing = 1 Armada has a good feel.

I love the idea of using the headings in Armada to Mach that of the x-wing board!


This will slow things down enormously of course, but would be fantastic for either small games, or long term multi-day ones.

Actually that idea is good, but I was going even more abstract.

Armada Ties: 3 HP. Each fighter in X-Wing is represetned by 1 Armada HP (3HP/3 fighters)

Armada X-Wing: 5 HP. Each fighter in X-Wing is represetned by 2 Armada HP (5HP/3 fighters)

I was simply going to say that for every 1 HP a tie squadron takes, it loses 1 ship in X-Wing, and for every 2 an X-Wing squadron, it loses an x-wing (maybe if it takes the "spare" 1 a ship starts with no shields?).

I am a huge believer in keeping "games within games" like this as simple as possible so that it can be played out nice and fast, without breaking the flow of the main game any more than needed.

I would never want to do this. Would rather devote my weekends to campaigns or friends. Then again, if your simplifying the squadron from 12 ships to 3 ships, it wouldn't take as long I guess. I would rather have it so there were 4-6 x-wing players per 2 armada players if your gonna do it that way.

I think if you were to do this then you should have it where each squadron is at max around X-wing 30-50 points. Where no named characters are used unless they are from Armada so basically at this moment just:

Luke, Wedge, Tycho, Dutch, and Farlander

Howlrunner, Mauler, Vader, Rhymmer, and Fel.

And each squadron can only be composed of the same type of ship. That way you can represent the smaller engagements but if multiples squadrons are engaged you you would have giant all out brawls like an epic game of X-wing.

And as for what fighters and upgrades belong to each squadron just build 30-50 squads for each squadron you take into armada.

I've actually thought about this topic as well, but not as in detail as you fellows. Your ideas are great to hear.

What I had originally been thinking was a sort of mission where you start in Armada and the imperial player has to disable a CR40 (I think that's the one). Once the ship is disabled you move to x-wing where the imperials are trying to get a Lambda shuttle (or more than one) to the CR to board. The remaining fighters, both rebellion and imperial would duke it out with the x-wing Tantative IV on the table!!

Then if the shuttle makes it to the CR for boarding you bring out Imperial Assault and do a custom made skirmish mission!!!!

YES PLEASE!!!

Fantasy Flight, just take my money already!!! Just take it all!

I also love that idea. Kind of like zooming in to the important part of the same battle.

So many good ideas

Wow,

I have just visited the Armada today and found a topic that I was considering myself. But my thoughts were that each hull point in Armada would equal 100 points in XWing.

That was daft in my opinion, but feel free to disagree if you like that.

I like the 1hull Armada equals 1hull or shield in XWing. This is for the most basic, cheapest ship of the kind, such as Rookie pilots. Perhaps players get 100points spending allowance to upgrade and kit out their ships. Just my thoughts, from someone yet to get the game.

My first questions i have why is this getting based of Armada hull points? Tie Fighter vs X wing is 8 vs 13 points, Hull points shouldn't factor in whatsoever. Ratio should be .61something. Putting that into Xwing terms, Gives you 4 Red squadrons vs 4 Black Squadrons. 92 vs 56 is about the same as 13 vs 8. Tada! You just have to factor in the total points of all the squadrons committed.

My real question is whyyyyyyyyyyy. Ok, not really, i know why, but seriously it will slow down the game sooooo much.

My first questions i have why is this getting based of Armada hull points? Tie Fighter vs X wing is 8 vs 13 points, Hull points shouldn't factor in whatsoever. Ratio should be .61something. Putting that into Xwing terms, Gives you 4 Red squadrons vs 4 Black Squadrons. 92 vs 56 is about the same as 13 vs 8. Tada! You just have to factor in the total points of all the squadrons committed.

My real question is whyyyyyyyyyyy. Ok, not really, i know why, but seriously it will slow down the game sooooo much.

The reason it is based off Armada hull points is because even if you have 3 x-wing rounds equalling one fighter round in Armada, there will still be fighters left the next time that capital ships come to shoot. If a capital ship then shoots at the fighters and causes damage - there needs to be a way to equate that to the fighter battle. i.e. Crap, that Star Destroyer just took out one of my two remaining X-Wings! Now its one X-wing vs 3 TIE fighters.

Secondly - yes, it will slow it down, but there are some of us who love staging epic battles that run an entire day

I keep seeing people saying that it is 3 vs 3 for x wings to tie fighters. Personally I think this is horribly unbalanced if done this way as even at its cheapest this is 63 points of x wings to 36 points of tie fighters. Furthermore it would take at best a single round of combat for the three x wings to wipe out the ties if all of their hits were not evaded while it would take the three tie fighters three rounds at best, in both situations I am not accounting for the bonus dice from range 1 and 3.

Hence is why I proposed the equal point scale for the fighters to retain balance for the fighter skirmishes. As for health just divide it by the size of the squad so for the 50 point scale this would be, where only accounting for ships without upgrades and at their lowest squad points:

X-wing: 2 X-wings, every point of armada damage is equal to 2 points of x wing damage.

Y-Wing: 2 Y-wings, every point of armada damage is equal to 3 points of x wing damage.

A-Wing:2 A-wings, every point of armada damage is equal to 2 points of x wing damage.

B-Wing: 2 B-wings, every point of armada damage is equal to 3 points of x wing damage.

Tie Fighter: 4 Tie fighters, every point of armada damage is equal to 3 points of x wing damage.

Tie Bomber: 3 Tie bombers, every point of armada damage is equal to 4 points of x wing damage.

Tie Interceptor: 2 Tie interceptors, every point of armada damage is equal to 2 points of x wing damage.

Tie Advanced: 2 Tie advanced, every point of armada damage is equal to 2 points of x wing damage.

This does leave a couple unaccounted for points namely for the y-wing and b-wing so if the squadron is destroyed in armada they are destroyed even if they have 1-2 points of x wing hull left.

And of course as I proposed before out of the 50 points you could add upgrades or chose the higher skill generic pilots so that would affect the number of fighters but in general this stat line should work for that scale.

I love the idea of a large, involved, very complex game.

The problem is that I think that most people do not, and they are not willing to invest the coordination, time and attention that it would require to really make it happen. I think that those who do try to make something like this happen, will find themselves disappointed in the people whom they set it up for.

Or, maybe I just hang around with too many people with short attention spans.

I love strategy games, and have a pretty high tolerance for long games, but even I would probably get frustrated with a single game of Armada going all day thanks to hour-long X-Wing breaks for every dogfight. This is definitely a nice idea for the right group, but the time investment will be absolutely immense given how frequently fighters activate.

That's the main problem to me. You'd have to literally change ENTIRELY how squadrons interact with each other, throwing out their special rules, as well as ignoring any effect upgrade cards have. Theory sounds lovely, but i fear in practice will be far too unwieldy.

I am thinking about running something along these lines…

The battle begins in space… Capital ships engage with specific tasks to perform in the battle… For example, the Rebel player has to break through a blockade. At this point everything is Armada (including Fighters)

Assuming that the Rebels break the blockade, they must then land a shuttle on the planet. Now an X-Wing game starts, with a shuttle and escorts trying to get planet-side with a group of Tie’s attacking.

Finally, if the Rebels make it this far, we will then switch to Imperial Assault and have the Rebels try to accomplish some mission (blow up the Imperial station for example)

The whole time the Imperial players could have a counter mission like disable a specific ship, board it and capture a specific person on board. The same game switching mechanic would be in play for them.

Yes, it would be lengthy, but 48 hour games are nothing new to my gaming group.

Yep, that was an idea that a mate and I had already floated as part of our grand campaign system.

Attacking player nominates a system and launches a fleet invasion - Armada battle plays out.

When squadrons engage, switch to X-Wing board to resolve those, or instead if that wont work go to the next step below

After that is done the attacker has blockaded the planet - so it ceases to grant any campaign bonuses to its owner,

If the attacker wants to actually capture the planet they then have to launch a fighter force to acheive air/orbital superiority (x-wing battle), and then assuming they win that - deploy a ground force to capture the shield generator/command station etc via Imperial Assault

Yep, that was an idea that a mate and I had already floated as part of our grand campaign system.

Attacking player nominates a system and launches a fleet invasion - Armada battle plays out.

When squadrons engage, switch to X-Wing board to resolve those, or instead if that wont work go to the next step below

After that is done the attacker has blockaded the planet - so it ceases to grant any campaign bonuses to its owner,

If the attacker wants to actually capture the planet they then have to launch a fighter force to acheive air/orbital superiority (x-wing battle), and then assuming they win that - deploy a ground force to capture the shield generator/command station etc via Imperial Assault

That would certainly be an epic campaign... Kinda lengthy, but super awesome.