Your right.

31 hp

If I take off prox mines I can switch out the tie for another bomber

But man, I've gotten a lot of finishing blow on a lot of ships with proximity mines

Dont know if another bomber would be worth it

34 hp then

Check out my version of the Decimator / Bomber build

Saw your build not bad.

If I may make a suggestion

Cluster missles are best if you had something to back them up like a focus, or jonus for the reroll.

Too many times I've seen people use them and roll lots of blanks and focuses.

Proximity mines work best on low ps ships. Since they will move first, you get the chance to fly by and drop them

If on a higher ps ship you run into a higher chance of being blocked

Bombs on the other hand work best with high ps, since you move after others, you can see where your opponent has moved and before reveal your dial place a seismic or proton bomb

Maybe put proton rockets or homing missles on the bombers? They don't require to spend your focus or target lock to launch them

But i do like what ya got going there

I would go with more proximity mines but alas I only have one to use. However i do have homing missiles. So i might try that or some other type of bombs. I really need to get another Firespray....im in the point of this game that I got the ships I want but need the cards that come from the many other ships from the game

I've just played with the Decimator for the first time today with the following list (quite close to Krynn007's):

- Oicunn + Predator + Mara Jade (48)

- Scimitar + Prox (19) x2

- Academy (12)

98pts total

Played against Dash loaded with HLC, Title, Lando and Experimental Interface, 2 Bandits and an A-Wing with Proton rocket.

Very very close game, which I lost due to a bad move (k-turning a bomber instead of dropping the mine, I though my opponent had anticipated the drop and chose a move to avoid it, he didn't)!

That was a lot of fun, lots of ramming in the beginning, Predator and Mara worked very well, the one prox I dropped inflicted 3 damage to Dash. I guess I could add a Tactical Jammer to Oicunn to shield the other guys, I'll try it next time, but that list really needs the initiative so sticking to 98pts makes it almost guaranteed. I'm looking forward to trying the other Deci pilots, but I have the feeling Oicunn will be my favourite, his ability is just too much fun!

I really like the Prox Mines too, I was also trying them for the first time today. I've used Seismic Charges quite a lot, but somehow I never thought much of the prox until reading that article by Sable Gryphon. I have to say I am now convinced, those things are really nasty and fun to play.

Your right.

31 hp

If I take off prox mines I can switch out the tie for another bomber

But man, I've gotten a lot of finishing blow on a lot of ships with proximity mines

Dont know if another bomber would be worth it

34 hp then

Check out my version of the Decimator / Bomber build

Saw your build not bad.

If I may make a suggestion

Cluster missles are best if you had something to back them up like a focus, or jonus for the reroll.

Too many times I've seen people use them and roll lots of blanks and focuses.

Proximity mines work best on low ps ships. Since they will move first, you get the chance to fly by and drop them

If on a higher ps ship you run into a higher chance of being blocked

Bombs on the other hand work best with high ps, since you move after others, you can see where your opponent has moved and before reveal your dial place a seismic or proton bomb

Maybe put proton rockets or homing missles on the bombers? They don't require to spend your focus or target lock to launch them

But i do like what ya got going there

I would go with more proximity mines but alas I only have one to use. However i do have homing missiles. So i might try that or some other type of bombs. I really need to get another Firespray....im in the point of this game that I got the ships I want but need the cards that come from the many other ships from the game

If playing friendly game could maybe borrow prox mine or for tournament borrow

Or friendly game really you only need one.

I usually take out two but i always hit with them so never had to place on the table.

I've just played with the Decimator for the first time today with the following list (quite close to Krynn007's):

- Oicunn + Predator + Mara Jade (48)

- Scimitar + Prox (19) x2

- Academy (12)

98pts total

Played against Dash loaded with HLC, Title, Lando and Experimental Interface, 2 Bandits and an A-Wing with Proton rocket.

Very very close game, which I lost due to a bad move (k-turning a bomber instead of dropping the mine, I though my opponent had anticipated the drop and chose a move to avoid it, he didn't)!

That was a lot of fun, lots of ramming in the beginning, Predator and Mara worked very well, the one prox I dropped inflicted 3 damage to Dash. I guess I could add a Tactical Jammer to Oicunn to shield the other guys, I'll try it next time, but that list really needs the initiative so sticking to 98pts makes it almost guaranteed. I'm looking forward to trying the other Deci pilots, but I have the feeling Oicunn will be my favourite, his ability is just too much fun!

I really like the Prox Mines too, I was also trying them for the first time today. I've used Seismic Charges quite a lot, but somehow I never thought much of the prox until reading that article by Sable Gryphon. I have to say I am now convinced, those things are really nasty and fun to play.

Dauntless you don't use often but if you ram you can still focus, or if you run into your own ships, still get that action.

So unlike ptl you don't get into a continuous cycle of having to do green maneuvers. It's there just for if and when you need it

Rebel captive is great. A deterrent for phantoms and dash with ptl as I found out last night

Your right, proximity mines are awesome

Sure they don't always work, but I've managed a lot of kills with them.

To me that's OK in my books

I don't think stress is that big a worry you can essentially 2 bank forever.

I don't think stress is that big a worry you can essentially 2 bank forever.

Thats the beauty of having no red manuevers: you can't make a dumb move even if you want to.

I don't think stress is that big a worry you can essentially 2 bank forever.

That's what I found using expose and experimental interface

Wish the one banks were green, but that would be sick

Well you don't have to expose yourself every time, last game I got a bit close to the edge and didn't use it so I could pull a hard two.

Ya, and that's what I found in the game I was using it.

Don't use it every round, but if your rng one, or know next round you have a good set up, then let loose.

When I was using it every turn I had to keep doing a two green which was taking me further away than I wanted.

Leason learned

Going to try something a little different but not sure which maybe better

Rear admiral

Expose or predator

Rebel captive

Experimental interface or engine upgrade

2 scimitar

Academy

Predator and Engine upgrade would be really nice. Maybe get out of arcs and turn around faster

Or go with 4-5 attack dice

I thought it was determined that focus + TL was better than expose with either? Perhaps Marksmanship + Experimental Interface would be better. Declare Marksman (which is a slightly better focus) and TL each round. If run on the rear admiral, that is pretty much two guaranteed crits a turn.

Just had my first loss with my Kenkirk, "Night Beast," "Dark Curse," Academy build. It was Vrill with HLC + Jan, and Dash with HLC + Kyle + Outrider + Engine + PtL. It was...humbling. I have never seen Dash used so well. MattShadowlord really gave me what for. I wish I could have shot more at Dash, but I knew he'd escape, so I tried to focus Vrill down, but couldn't get it done. I'll have to work on my approach because the first few turns Kenkirk had no shots while his escorts were getting pinged to death. Granted, their abilities meant they stuck around a while even with the HLC's, but since Kenkirk wasn't dealing damage, all it did was prolong the inevitable. Can't wait to try again sometime!

It definitely is important to keep in mind that your EI/Expose Decimator will likely move far out of combat pretty quickly, and take a while to come back in. No K Turns, and not taking Engine upgrade can do this to ya. Therefore, it is extra important that you pick a good flight path, and make sure your support keeps pace. And if you have to, pull your support out of the fight with an unexpected hard turn or something in order to give your Decimator time to get back in range.

It's kind of like flying an Engineless Shuttle, honestly.

I am intrigued by that lone wolf rexlar list. Did you run up against Dash/Corran? I've been flying that with great success and think it might eat that list alive. For those of you who haven't seen it yet, a loaded Corran can solo almost any build of decimator. It's not even fair.

Would you consider Kenkirk or is ps10 boost better survivability?

What is the loaded Coran? What loadout does it have?

Im starting to think that there is not going to be an ultimate Decimator build. And see more Oicunn and Chir builds than kirk. Kinda worried that by the time a tournament does come around that we will have used up every available option if we already havent already for upgrade combination for the Decimator. And we dont have much options on wingmen besides TIE Fighters , Phantoms Firespray . Bombers. Dont really see much builds that use Interceptors or Shuttles and it almost seems like people are scared to use the Defender .....and I refuse to belive that the Defender will be the next TIE Advance.....wich is sad because out of all our vast collection of ships that we have that **** Advance is sitting in a box collecting dust in our collections maybe only seeing play in a ***** n giggles game among friends.... a crying shame with the advance ....it just cost to much in points for what it brings to the table...or lack of....but our defender...that dog will hunt. And yea it might be a bit costly but look at what it can do? You can throw a heavy cannon on the thing or whatever cannon that you want on it for that matter and missiles. I dare to say our version of the B-wing. Anyways our Decimator is our shiney new toy and we have pretty much ran it into the ground with every possible setup that I worry that people will get burnt out on it and it will not see tournament play or it wilk just be too predictable and wont hold an element of surprise in a game....well at least not in my area. Because the people at my gamestore cant get off that Old school TIE swarm build. Im sorry I didnt mean to turn it into a rant. If im trying to say anything at all im trying to say that our awsome new ship it seems to be loosing its flare quickly....I wonder if its the same way with Rebel players and the new YT-2400? Think they are stuck in the "super Dash build" i will say this at least it seems we have more options on how we build with our new ship. Tho I dont think we will have a "super Chir, or Super Oicunn build" lol

And as for the EI / Expose debate. I belive it will be more effective on Oicunn for the fact that the idea with Oicunn is to get in close at least in range 1 and closer to mix it up with the enemy. It would be an ideal choice to throw the EI/Expose combo on Oicunn to get that 5 dice option to smack somone in the face with plus at range 1 i belive we have upgrades that stress other ships out at that point. I think even an option to lower a ships agility as well at that range....hmm the options....maybe get that engine upgrade on him as well to quickly close in on the enemy so you can get in those range one abilities and the natural effects of Oicunns ship.

Just had my first loss with my Kenkirk, "Night Beast," "Dark Curse," Academy build. It was Vrill with HLC + Jan, and Dash with HLC + Kyle + Outrider + Engine + PtL. It was...humbling. I have never seen Dash used so well. MattShadowlord really gave me what for. I wish I could have shot more at Dash, but I knew he'd escape, so I tried to focus Vrill down, but couldn't get it done. I'll have to work on my approach because the first few turns Kenkirk had no shots while his escorts were getting pinged to death. Granted, their abilities meant they stuck around a while even with the HLC's, but since Kenkirk wasn't dealing damage, all it did was prolong the inevitable. Can't wait to try again sometime!

I'm no expert but I personally know matt shadowlord, and he don't run no soft list plus has played his list a ton and your list was definitely not a list that would have been seen as a tuff match for him. I hope this helps

*is hit by wall of text, it's super effective!*

Seriously guys paragraphs won't kill you and will get your posts read.

I've been messing with Decimators for a while and learned the following:

Gunner - basically required...these builds often have two, maybe three ships, so you /have/ to have reliable damage, considering you will not have that many red dice.

Isaard - so many points in this ship, you have to take this old girl.

Rebel Captive - useful on so many levels, also required.

Ruthlessness - wonderful to pair with Gunner.

Determination - sure, it won't trigger all the time, but that's free hullpoints every time it does.

Tried the following list for a while:

Oicunn - Ruthlessness, Gunner, Isaard, Rebel Captive

Kath - Ruthlessness, Gunner

It was fairly effective in general, and ruthlessness typically killed a ship by itself. Good counter for Biggs, and other R1 trickerly. On the other hand, one buddy that helped me develop the list played against me as a test game and just stayed widely spaced, never allowing ruthlessness to trigger. So, it is a potentially powerful combo, but requires your opponent to basically play poorly for it to work. Counting on your opponent to be an idiot is not a successful long term strategy, me thinks.

Currently playing the following:

Oicunn - Determination, Gunner, Isaard, Rebel Captive

Patrol leader - Gunner

In my vassal test games last night against builds from Worlds, this list was the most successful. Determination was clutch and gunner turrets make up for the small volume of fire with reliability.

I do like that build, but have you guys tried Mara Jade. I've felt she's been very good. Capable of handing out something like 9 stresses and making them lose about 5 shots and 3 actions.

Oicunn - Determination, Gunner, Isaard, Rebel Captive

Patrol leader - Gunner

Just had my first loss with my Kenkirk, "Night Beast," "Dark Curse," Academy build. It was Vrill with HLC + Jan, and Dash with HLC + Kyle + Outrider + Engine + PtL. It was...humbling.

Have you read a blog on team covenant by Therorist about list building and smart counters. It talks about having smart counters and I think he makes a good point about running tie fighters with a decimator. He thinks it's not a good combo and I think he makes a good point....

I'm no expert but I personally know matt shadowlord, and he don't run no soft list plus has played his list a ton and your list was definitely not a list that would have been seen as a tuff match for him. I hope this helps

I have read that article. Thing is, I wasn't trying to counter Super Dash. I was still trying to counter Fat Han, and this build DESTROYS his escorts, leaving Han for easy pickings. The other thing is, Theorist didn't say TIE fighters are bad. He said 3x Academy Pilots are bad. Vrill is PS 3, so "Dark Curse" and "Night Beast" beat him there. They are also harder to kill than your average TIE fighter. I think this squad has a chance if I play smarter.

I don't want to make excuses for myself, but I have noticed that I have a REALLY hard time switching between VASSAL and table top. Those two parts of my X-wing life don't seem to communicate well with each other, and I now strongly prefer the tabletop, despite being a VASSAL supporter from the start.

EDIT: Ignore the above. I come off sounding like a whiner. I'll keep playing VASSAL because it really is a great tool.

Just had my first loss with my Kenkirk, "Night Beast," "Dark Curse," Academy build. It was Vrill with HLC + Jan, and Dash with HLC + Kyle + Outrider + Engine + PtL. It was...humbling.

Have you read a blog on team covenant by Therorist about list building and smart counters. It talks about having smart counters and I think he makes a good point about running tie fighters with a decimator. He thinks it's not a good combo and I think he makes a good point....

I'm no expert but I personally know matt shadowlord, and he don't run no soft list plus has played his list a ton and your list was definitely not a list that would have been seen as a tuff match for him. I hope this helps

I have read that article. Thing is, I wasn't trying to counter Super Dash. I was still trying to counter Fat Han, and this build DESTROYS his escorts, leaving Han for easy pickings. The other thing is, Theorist didn't say TIE fighters are bad. He said 3x Academy Pilots are bad. Vrill is PS 3, so "Dark Curse" and "Night Beast" beat him there. They are also harder to kill than your average TIE fighter. I think this squad has a chance if I play smarter.

I don't want to make excuses for myself, but I have noticed that I have a REALLY hard time switching between VASSAL and table top. Those two parts of my X-wing life don't seem to communicate well with each other, and I now strongly prefer the tabletop, despite being a VASSAL supporter from the start.

I read that article too. I've yet to see real effect of the fact that the Decimator is the obvious target in my build. I think I need to play against better people.

My current build uses Decimator with 2 APs and a Black with DTF. I've found them to be wonderful wingmen. My APs really much up the positioning for swarms and do good blocking, while the DTF Black has usually absorbed 2 full crits each game.

Because it's not the same deciding to go after a phantom or a decimator, or 3 ties and a decimator. You can deal with the Ties after the decimator is down even if you lost a few ships, handling a phantom is much harder.

That opens up for a lot more of play where you can cycle targets to mess up with your opponent's target priority, otherwise, your opponent can ignore the Ties or bombers, even tho it could be a less optimal way to manage your damage potential, to end up on a strong position later on the game.

I do like that build, but have you guys tried Mara Jade. I've felt she's been very good. Capable of handing out something like 9 stresses and making them lose about 5 shots and 3 actions.

Oicunn - Determination, Gunner, Isaard, Rebel Captive

Patrol leader - Gunner

I tried her with my early Oicunn builds, and she did well. Once players learned her capabilities, they made some efforts to avoid her and her usefulness declined rapidly. My lesson learned: upgrades/abilities that the enemy can avoid/prevent relatively easily (Mara Jade or Ruthlessness) are also to be avoided. Don't count on your opponent being an idiot.

Currently playing the following:

Oicunn - Determination, Gunner, Isaard, Rebel Captive

Patrol leader - Gunner

In my vassal test games last night against builds from Worlds, this list was the most successful. Determination was clutch and gunner turrets make up for the small volume of fire with reliability.

And this does well against Dash+Corran or Dash+Han (few upgrades) or Deci+Phantom why? Sure you have the raw hitpoints, but it's not like that Patrol leader without upgrades is going to last long. Dash+Corran could probably drop him in 2-3 turns with doubletap and i dont think Oicunn can solo either of these 2.

Rebel captive is there specifically for phantom and other high PS ships. Phantom getting a stress from RC means an uncloaked phantom which means a dead phantom. Dash getting stress from the RC helps keep him more manageable too.