And no, I meant Anti-Vehicle weaponry, since, as you pointed out, anti-armor weaponry tends to ruin a Space Marine's day. By the same token though, a Space Marine can take a direct hit from a Tyranid Tyrannofex's Rupture Cannon, and is going to be ok, more than fifty percent of the time.

I think you're being a bit misleading here.

Aren't Rupture Cannons S10? That's a 2+ on the To-Wound Roll. Exactly the same as if you'd fire that weapon at some Guardsman mook --> the game makes zero difference between Marines and ordinary humans here .

In fact, the game doesn't even differentiate between Space Marines and Guardsmen anymore as soon as you bring plasma pistols to a fight. So much for that much-vaunted toughness.

What helps the Astartes against stuff like Rupture Cannons is their power armour, but that has nothing to do with their physiology, and is not exclusive to them.

As for the dismantling vehicles with their bare hands, I concede that I originally made that analogy way back in 5th Edition when glancing hits could still result in vehicles losing weapons or becoming permanently immobilized-- ie. A Space Marine could literally rip the main gun off a Predator tank with his bare hands in a single round.

A colourful interpretation, but pushing what the book actually suggests is happening. You also neglect to mention that to succeed in this task, the player would have to roll the maximum result on the d6, and that there is only a 10% total Assault Strength difference to ordinary humans, assuming said maximum roll:

Predator's rear armour = 10 (threshold to reach to cause at least a glancing hit)

Marine Assault Strength = d6+S4 = 5-10 (16.6% chance)

Guardsman Assault Strength = d6+S3 = 4-9 (0.0% chance)

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I really don't think the TT is what you are looking for with that kind of image.

Not that I don't think the Marines are not badass on the TT either! just not that badass .. there is no huge gap as your posts seem to imply, especially as there are some unique humans who can rival or even exceed the Marines' Strength and/or Toughness, such as the Catachan Sergeant Harker with his natural S4, or the bionically augmented Colonel Straken with S6.

Truth be told, I actually think the TT makes the Marines seem a bit weak even for my interpretation. The d100 Inquisitor game hits closer to home. Still not a vast gap, but there is a gap in some areas, and an overlap in others. It comes down to how you interpret what happens in the TT, though, for as we know what happens there is heavily abstracted, so it comes down to how you describe things.

It ... probably fits to the "cinematic" theme the FFG team wanted for their Marines, but due to my more "down to Earth" interpretation of the setting, of course I must agree with you here. It doesn't make sense as a primary weapon (due to helmets), and the way I see it, it was only added to the Space Marines because the Emperor ordered his scientists to go all-out on the Astartes program and equip his elite shock troops with anything they could possibly need.

From GW's Index Astartes, White Dwarf #247:

"The gland allows the Marine to spit a blinding contact poison. The poison is also corrosive. A Marine imprisoned behind iron bars could easily chew his way out given a few hours ."

Sounds like the studio intended it more as a Get Out Of Jail Free-card, not Aliens-style Eats-Your-Armour stuff. Of course, the latter is bound to be perceived as more Cool and Epic ™by a lot of folks. A matter of taste... (me not being a big fan of superheroes either is probably connected to my inherent dislike for Movie Marines. characters need flaws and weaknesses, dammit!)

Yeah i gotta agree it's a bit silly. I can just see a bunch of space wolves taking their helmets off...

What helmets?

From GW's Index Astartes, White Dwarf #247:

"The gland allows the Marine to spit a blinding contact poison. The poison is also corrosive. A Marine imprisoned behind iron bars could easily chew his way out given a few hours ."

That "givven a few hours" is only because the Codex Astartes sais to chew iron bars properly and wait 15 minutes before you start a new bar. Roboute was a stickler for proper table manners, even when you are imprisoned.

what helmets? The cool ones that look like a wolf head of course!

Actualy there is a nice line in one of the HH novels about helmets when an iron warrior character thinks: "Another one without a helmet! Do Dorn's sons WANT to have their heads blown off?"

That image must be a fake. Space Wolf Beards are incompatible with helmets!

Actualy there is a nice line in one of the HH novels about helmets when an iron warrior character thinks: "Another one without a helmet! Do Dorn's sons WANT to have their heads blown off?"

Haha - as much as I consider those novels to be OTT, that is pretty clever.

That image must be a fake. Space Wolf Beards are incompatible with helmets!

What beards?

Obviously an Alpha Legion impostor. Arrest that man!

Nonsense! THIS is an Alpha legion Impostor!

Or this one:

Bwhahahaha!

Another cool line from HH novel "Deliverance lost" This happens after the AL have infiltrated the Raven guard. When the time to strike comes and the (previously working alone and in deep cover) alpha legionaires link up with each other:

Alpha legionary (masqurading as a basic RG marine) : "Wait, one of us is a commander ?"

That line just made me smile for some reason.

Browning M2 .50 cal.

Based on my own military experience with the M60 and the M2( browning .50 cal heavy barrel mg) I would say the Heavy stubber is more like the M1919 from WW2. The m60 is designed to be capable of sholder firing which the heavy stubber does not due to its lack of butt stock. Under normal human conditions the M2 is not designed to be ran around with and fried. The M1919 however has an optional handle that goes around the barrel shroud like the top handle on the heavey stubber makinf it capable of being fired from the hip or to be dropped onto a tripod or mounted. Both the M60 and the M1919 were similar caliber (.308, and 30-6 respectively). Based on thatI would not see a problem with mounting a set of heavey stubbers or having some big guy run around with 1. And as previously mentioned it is 40k so probably a bulked up version with a larger caliber. Hope that helps

According to Forgeworld illustrations, a heavy stubber can also be akin to a bipod-mounted LMG. The one in Vraks book 2 is a dead ringer for an MG34.

Anything from squad support weapon (minimi or SAW style) all the way upto 12.7mm HMG passing MMGs like the Vickers .303 and the GPMG on the way. But the Bulldog in the book of judgement has to be a vickers for the reliability angle. There is a dit knocking about that a section of around half a dozen were used in the indirect fire role to interdict and suppress a road junction during one of the allied offensives non stop for about 5 days. They needed a full battalion of men to carry the ammunition and spare barrels forward to the guns.

A Heavy Stubber fits into a range from the FN Minimi all the way upto the 12.7mm HMGs, via the medium machine guns like the GPMG, M60 and the Vickers gun. A lot of the models and illustrations bear a striking resemblance to the MG 34, MG 42 and the US Army's .30 cal machine guns (all from WWII).

The Arbites Bulldog Heavy Stubber however has to be a Vickers Gun. The following story indicates 5 MILLION rounds fired without a stoppage on a range test. http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Vickers

Bolters really have no modern comparison.

Perhaps the closest would be the gyrojet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

We are talking about firearms with incredible penetration power and explosive power.

Some bright sparks did the calculations that a Space Marine bolter round could penetrate the front armour of an M1 Abrams tank.

Erm... what? Based on what exactly? They are rocket assisted ~20mm rounds, with what actually amounts to not that high a velocity (though, being rocket prolelled they do hold their maximum velocity for longer). They should ping right off the front of a modern tank. Some lighter armoured vehicles could probably be penetrated (ala a chimera or rhino), but not an MBT.

Heavy Stubbers are a whole family of things as best I can tell. The "generic" one is almost certainly .50/12.5mm calibre Heavy Machine Guns, (the Imperial Guard vehicle one looks almost exactly like a stylised Browning M2) but they also seem to represent MMG and GPMG style weapons, like M60s, MG34s (which some of the man carried models are quite clearly inspired by), and on the heavier end some seem to be styled after 14.5mm machine guns (I think some of the Forgeworld Death Korps of Krieg stuff have twin linked heavy stubbers that look larger than .50 cals). With the vagueries and broadness of stats in 40k they all come out as St 4 AP 6 Heavy 3 weapons in the table top. However, I would give them different stats in an RPG.

SAWs like the Minimi, and anything firing 5.56 or similar ammunition, I would personally imagine would be classed as as autoguns, just with a higher ammunition capacity and better designed for sustained fire. I wouldn't class them under as heavy stubbers.