Hello, got a good discussion going on about how these two abilities can or cannot work together and thought I'm come post here for an official answer as we are at a respectful impasse.

Tetran Cowell: When you reveal a K maneuver, you may treat the speed of that maneuver as "1," "3," or "5."

Stay on Target (FAQ version): When you reveal a maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same speed. Treat your maneuver as a red maneuver.

Scenario 1- If Tetran Cowell reveals a 5 speed K-Turn, then uses his ability to treat it as a 1 speed K-Turn, can he then use Stay on Target to turn that move into a 1 speed left or right turn?

Scneario 2- If Cowell reveals a 5 speed straight move, can he use Stay on Target to switch it into a 5 speed K-Turn and then use his ability to treat it as a 1, 3 or 5 speed?

I do believe these to be separate situations, and it has been my position that scenario 1 is not allowed, while scenario 2 is. My point has been that even if the K-Turn is "treated" as a 1 or a 3 speed, it is still revealed as a 5 speed, meaning Stay on Target cannot change it to a 1 turn.

Thanks in advance.

Yes that is right.

Tetras ability does not reveal a new maneuver. He can just treat the speed as 1, 3 or 5

Scenario two is easier to solve as the stress and red maneuver don't interact. This one works with pilot ability and EPT

Scenario 1 gets a little bit more complicated as you pick a red maneuver (K-turn) and then alter it with the EPT (which makes it red as well). I am not sure if it would leave you with 2 stress or allowing your opponent to pick your maneuver.

Very interesting interaction, worthy of an e-mail.

Neither scenario is allowed, as both change a maneuver and no longer provide a "revealed manerver" for the second one to trigger.

Neither scenario is allowed, as both change a maneuver and no longer provide a "revealed manerver" for the second one to trigger.

Which isn't supported. The Fettigator ruling "allowed the changed maneuver to become the maneuver", or else the navigator and Boba fett combo would not work.

I'm just not sure if the same principle applies to Tetran and Stay on Target, but I suspect that it does.

Abilities that rotate the dial, like SoT and Navigator counts the new maneuver as the revealed maneuver.

So Scenario 1 doesn't work because you revealed a 5 k-turn, and Tetra doesn't change that. So SoT can only change it to a 5 straight.

And changing a red maneuver with SoT still just makes it a red maneuver. You do not incur the stress until the Check Pilot Stress step. So no double stress and no Opponent chooses.

However using SoT while stressed will allow your opponent to select a non red maneuver for you as you revealed a red maneuver.

Very interesting interaction, worthy of an e-mail.

Here's where I'll need some help. Where do I send this for an official FFG answer? I posted here in the forums after trying to figure it out for the better part of 30 minutes.

I'm guessing that means it's right in front of me, but I have looked and looked to no avail. I think we're all on the same page about it, but I want a definite answer before I report back to the aforementioned discussion. Thanks!

Very interesting interaction, worthy of an e-mail.

Here's where I'll need some help. Where do I send this for an official FFG answer? I posted here in the forums after trying to figure it out for the better part of 30 minutes.

I'm guessing that means it's right in front of me, but I have looked and looked to no avail. I think we're all on the same page about it, but I want a definite answer before I report back to the aforementioned discussion. Thanks!

Top of the page, click on More...

Go down to Customer Service, and Rules Questions should pop up there.

Scenario two is easier to solve as the stress and red maneuver don't interact. This one works with pilot ability and EPT

Scenario 1 gets a little bit more complicated as you pick a red maneuver (K-turn) and then alter it with the EPT (which makes it red as well). I am not sure if it would leave you with 2 stress or allowing your opponent to pick your maneuver.

Very interesting interaction, worthy of an e-mail.

It shouldn't generate two stress, as you are still only "revealing" the one maneuver. It's also not going to allow your opponent to choose because of the "double red" rule.

You are still in the stage of revealing your maneuver dial, so you can effectively do either scenario. In either case, once the final maneuver is established, then you move onto Check Pilot Stress and apply the stress because the use of Stay on Target has defined it as red.

Yeah, I had to let this one rattle around for awhile in my head to see what was going on. Stay on target is like R2 in that it modifies a maneuver to red, it doesn't generate a red maneuver, which is where my confusion came from.

All Stay on Target does is change the maneuver to red. If it is already a red maneuver it does nothing more... it's already red.

So Tetran can choose a 5 K turn, change it to a 1 K turn, and then use Stay on target to change the K turn into a 1 bank. Gains one stress.

So Tetran can choose a 5 K turn, change it to a 1 K turn, and then use Stay on target to change the K turn into a 1 bank. Gains one stress.

No because Tetra does not change the revealed maneuver. So if he revealed a 5 k-turn he can treat the speed differently, but he still revealed a 5 k-turn so SoT can only change it to a 5 straight. SoT and Navigator actually require you to rotate the dial to the new maneuver. Tetra does not and he doesn't even have a 1 k-turn on the dial.

If Tetran reveals a 5 K, he can "treat it as a speed of 1 K" as he can change the speed (not the bearing), which is a change to that maneuver.

When Tetran changes the speed of the K to 1 the maneuver becomes a 1 K. If it did not function that way Fettigator and all other maneuver changing abilities would not work.

SoT changes the dial to a maneuver that is at that speed, not to the speed shown on the dial - that was altered. Speed is 1 so a 1 turn is the only option as a 1 turn is all that is on the dial at that speed.

FAQ pg 16:

Stay on Target

Even if the chosen maneuver is changed by an ability such as Navigator, the maneuver that the ship executes is always a red maneuver.

It's a semantics discussion basically. I think Stephens is pointing out that in the case of Stay on Target and Navigator, you are physically changing the dial from the maneuver you revealed to another. Whereas in the case of Tetran Cowell, you aren't changing the dial, just treating it as if it said something else when it doesn't.

Come to think of it, it makes me think of adrenaline rush, where even though you are showing a red maneuver you are allowed to "treat" it as a white one.

From that line of thinking I am more inclined to agree that you could reveal a 5k, treat it as a 1k, then use stay on target to change it to a 1 turn. That is opposite of how I was previously looking at it. I'll still wait for the official E-Mail response (and I'll be sure to post when I get it).

I see the key word is "rotate" vs "treat". I can see the differences between the two words.

Wasn't Stay on Target designed by Paul Heaver?

Why don't just ask him?

Remember the golden rule. If a card breaks the rules of the rule book, the card wins. My understanding of the word "treat" means, for all intents and purposes, the maneuver is now whatever you have changed it to. Whatever was before is gone. In this instance you can now use Stay on Target to again modify it.

And necro...this was in the last faq

Yeah, I had to let this one rattle around for awhile in my head to see what was going on. Stay on target is like R2 in that it modifies a maneuver to red, it doesn't generate a red maneuver, which is where my confusion came from.

All Stay on Target does is change the maneuver to red. If it is already a red maneuver it does nothing more... it's already red.

So Tetran can choose a 5 K turn, change it to a 1 K turn, and then use Stay on target to change the K turn into a 1 bank. Gains one stress.

Yup that seems correct.

So Tetran can choose a 5 K turn, change it to a 1 K turn, and then use Stay on target to change the K turn into a 1 bank. Gains one stress.

No because Tetra does not change the revealed maneuver. So if he revealed a 5 k-turn he can treat the speed differently, but he still revealed a 5 k-turn so SoT can only change it to a 5 straight. SoT and Navigator actually require you to rotate the dial to the new maneuver. Tetra does not and he doesn't even have a 1 k-turn on the dial.

When multiple abilities occur at the same time you can choose the order to best benefit yourself. So you choose the change the 5k turn to 1k turn, then decide to SOT and change to whatever 1 speed maneuver you want, then gain 1 stress. The 1 K turn is straight from the card.

If you say are "treating" your maneuver as a 1K turn, then you can understand how you can then change your dial to another 1 speed turn with SOT. The 5K speed that is physically on your dial is no longer valid as your speed is now 1K due to the card overriding the game rule.

Straight from FFG:

Adrenaline Rush isn’t the only elite pilot talent that's good on Tetran Cowall, though, because he combines excellently with Stay on Target . With this, he can choose a K-turn, decide whether he wishes to execute the maneuver at speed 1, 3, or 5, and then rotate his dial to any other maneuver of the chosen speed, at the cost of a stress token. Likewise, he can reveal a speed "3" or "5" maneuver, use Stay on Target to change it to a K-turn of the same speed, and then change it to a K-turn of speed 1, 3, or 5, again at the cost of a stress token.