Just having a discussion with a friend about ordnance, and why it's mostly (not all) rubbish.

- Expensive for a single shot

- Having to use up a lock to fire compounds the above problem by making it unreliable.

As a big SW fluff fan, it makes me sad that torpedoes and missiles are so rarely used (Flechettes and Proton Rockets are at least not too uncommon), and i'd love to see it brought back.

What do you think of a Modification along the lines of:

"Ordnance Fire Contral System: When making an "Attack:Target Lock" attack, do not discard your target lock to make the attack."

Wording is bleh, but you get the idea...basically removing the Lock Tax.

It wouldn't boost Rockets, since they use a Focus, but if people wanted to use accurate ordnance it gets a lot easier.

Useful? Overpowered? Worthless? Dumber than a bag of Kardashians?

Ordinance either need to be cheaper and have the text about spending the target lock removed or be reusable like a HLC.

Now that comes with a whole raft of careful adjustment because certain ships will get a massive boost from reusable missiles or cheaper torpedoes.

It's a good argument for a 2.0 most things work fine but ordinance remains mostly useless.

Try throwing a basic Proton Torpedo on Wedge. It is pretty impressive.

Ordnance, IMO, works great in Star Wars. Deciding to take ordnance, and what to take isn't an easy decision, but that is what make it a good upgrade option.

One advantage that is often overlooked with standard ordnance is that sure it may just be one shot, but if used properly it is your opening salvo. Doing more damage early in the game has added benefit, this is particularly true in timed games like tournaments.

I have played a lot with ordnance and I find it can be difficult to use, but when it is used effectively, it can be devastating.

If you are worried about its unreliability there is a 1 point upgrade that will fix that. I almost never take the Munitions Failsafe, because though my missiles/torps are not always effective, they almost always hit when I get them off.

I'm a fan of homing missiles. You don't have to spend the target lock to fire them, and thus have it to modify the result.

I've come to the same conclusion, as well. I do use ordenance and like it, but it could use something more. I've wondered why you use the TL when you are actually using the lock to target in. Maybe......you HAVE to spend the TL on the attack. So, you don't get to fire and keep the TL. That way you don't get great results, and keep the TL for next round.

If they made a ruling in the FAQ that "ATTACK (TARGET LOCK): SPEND YOUR TARGET LOCK AND DISCARD THIS CARD... " meant that you can actually use the TL you spend, then I think it can be done without reprinting things.

In fact, if you did that for other things, I bet you would see more Blaster Turrets. If you got to actually use the Focus in the shot, then it would be used a lot more.

I think that would be a sufficient ruling that wouldn't require a reprint and wouldn't break the game, either.

I agree:

Just make a FAQ change. Ordinance only needs target lock to fire. Do not remove the target lock to fire. that way you could use break the Target Lock to re-roll the attack dice you wanted to.

I agree:

Just make a FAQ change. Ordinance only needs target lock to fire. Do not remove the target lock to fire. that way you could use break the Target Lock to re-roll the attack dice you wanted to.

I would require that an attack with missile or torpedo does exhaust the TL, regardless of wether you need to reroll or not.

So basically have it read:

Attack (target lock); spend your target lock and discard this card to... you may reroll any number of dice during this attack.

Because you don't really want that TL to linger to be used, for instance, by Corran on his second attack.

As for the OP, that mechanism is something to be used on an Assault Gunboat.

I like ordnance too. But then, I tend to run sub-par squads. We had 50-point matches last night and I ran

Boba Fett (39)

-Slave I (0)

-Recon Specialist (3)

-Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)

-Deadeye (1)

TOTAL: 49

This worked wonders to get 5 hits on my attack. Granted, the TIE Interceptor rolled 3 evades, but it was still powerful. Basically, Deadeye + Recon Specialist let me "TL +Focus" for the attack. That's part of what made it so effective (the other part being the sheer awesomeness of turning 3 blanks to focus results). If you can modify the attack, it is so much more potent, but setting that up takes a lot of skill and a little luck. So if all ordnance was forced to modify dice when the TL was discarded to perform the attack, I could see it becoming a lot more powerful.

But let's say the FAQ changed to what we're talking about here. What does that do to cards like Deadeye? I suppose Deadeye would be FAQ'ed to say that you spend your focus token to perform the attack, then change all [eyes] to [hits]?

Sounds like someone just needs to test this idea out and see if it makes ordnance too powerful.

I do agree that most ordinance is overcosted and unreliable, at best. There are some notable exceptions. Mainly, to me, it comes down the question of whether or not the incremental number of attack dice is worth the points you pay for the ordinance. For Rebels, the answer is usually no. Why would a rebel player (typically a 3 Attack Dice attack) pay points to upgrade a single attack (mostly) by one Attack Dice that is usually unmodified? It makes no sense. However, for the Empire player who usually has two Attack Dice as a primary weapon, it may make sense. It also makes more sense if you have access to a mechanism to modify the dice in some way.

Personally, I use Assault Missiles and Seismic Charges fairly often. A two Assault Missile , augmented by Jonus, alpha strike can be devastating to low-agility squads of Rebels.

I think the ruling would just need to be something like:

When there is an attack requirement, such as "ATTACK (X): SPEND YOUR X ......" you must pay the requirement to attack. This requirement can be used in the attack. For example, when you spend your Target Lock to fire a missile, you may use that Target Lock to re-roll attack dice.

This would pretty much mean that whenever you have a funky attack requirement, you just get to use it in the attack. Deadeye lets you fire with Focus instead of TL, so all your eyeballs are hits. Blaster Turrets can turn any eyeball into a hit.

Would this break ordenance? I don't think so. You still need to get the Target Lock. I think the biggest fear would be that you can use a lot of small ships to fire a wall of missiles. With low PS ships, you need to be within range to get the TL. If you are doing the first approach against the enemy, the chances are that your low PS ships will not be in range to TL on the first pass. That's when ordenance is the deadliest. So, it still takes skill and proves higher PS pilots are better. I think that's the biggest example.

The point cost for ordenance is also expensive. It's (on average) 4 pts for one shot. That is still expensive. The enemy still gets to evade and has the chance to miss completely. Even if you use your TL for re-rolls, you can still roll all blanks. I don't think it's game breaking.

@Darth Chuck: It's true that the math experts have proven that it's better (on average) to have a TL or Focus than it is to have an extra attack die. That means that X-wings don't gain a lot from the Proton Torpedoe. These experts will also agree that having 4 dice with a re-roll is better than 3 dice with one, as well. So, if these rules changed for the game, X-wings would have reason to use Torpedoes. Also, Proton Torpedoes let you change one eyeball into a crit. Not a hit, but a crit. So, if you roll 4 dice and get re-rolls....and then one eyeball into a crit, then that's pretty deadly. It's especially deadly vs. Imperials that don't always get shields.

Overall, I think this rule would have a positive effect on the meta. First off, large ships would be big targets for ordenance. They would suffer the hits more than anyone. I think you could possibly see the end of the Fat Han as the Tyrannasuarus Rex of competitive play. I think it would also make X-wings taken again. It would give them another edge. I could even see people starting to take Tie Advanced on the rare occasion. Imagine Darth Vader getting to fire with TL and Focus on that turn. He would get to use both!

The one issue would be how Homing Missile would be neutered. Then again, I think you could change it so that you got a free Focus with it. In other words, Homing Missiles would let you use the TL (like all missiles), but would also turn all eyeballs into hits, as well. I mean, you don't have to focus, because it's homing in for you!

Har! Seems I'm not the first to reach out to MajorJuggler to crank out the numbers!

I'll eventually field it when I do a comprehensive ordnance analysis / post, but no ETA.

Sounds good. It would be interesting if it got onto various podcasts for discussion.