So, this is what I'm going with at the moment as I know all the ships and what they can/can't do.

Dash with Outrider + Engine Upgrade + HLC

Corran with FCS + PtL + R2 Unit + Engine Upgrade

Bandit x 4

What do you think would be the best way to split it and what would you spend the other 5 points on??

Okay. Let's keep those 5 points as a buffer, for now. We can find where to put them after we've got the soul of your roll-out figured out. Meanwhile, have a questionnaire, followed by advice.

Which ships/upgrades are the most important to your fleet?

Ships? Clearly Dash and Corran. Upgrades? Outrider + HLC and FCS. Are there others?

Are there any ships/upgrades that rely on a previous ship/upgrade to exist before joining in?

Outrider cannot function without HLC. Are there others?

Are there considerations to the likely metagame included?

If so, when do we expect the metagame to hurt our fleet if we include our considerations too late?

Not for me to answer, I'm afraid.

Are there ships/upgrades that act merely as filler?

Arguably, the R2 Unit, Push the Limit, Engine Upgrades, and Bandit Squadron Pilots. These may alternatively be weak answers to no. 1, or hidden answers to no. 3.

The answers to the first question should be included in Wave 2 at the latest.

The answers to the second question should be included in Wave 2 at the earliest, unless all other key ships/upgrades can still fit in Wave 2.

The answers to the third question should be included at Wave that is the answer to the fourth.

The answers to the fifth question are wiggle-room, and should either be discarded, re-defined, or included as late as possible.

Good news!

Dash + Outrider + HLC and Corran + FCS both fit into Wave 2, with 5 points to spare.

Sadly, Dash and Corran cannot both fit into Wave 1. However, Dash + Outrider + HLC + 5 does.

At that point, I would consider the following:

What can I add to Dash that is worth 5 points that doesn't make me lose to a Fat Han start, or a 5 Academy swarm?

I have EPT, Crew, and Modification slots still open.

The original list calls for Engine Upgrade, so I'll try to keep the Mod slot open, unless there's a truly insane combo for 5 points that requires it. To that end, let us examine the Mod slot, to see what is available.

Engine Upgrade: It lets us escape the donut-problem in 3 additional ways. That defends us from getting boxed in, but we already have very good maneuverability at this stage. The

Experimental Interface: The most probable combo-piece, but does nothing for us on its own.

Anti-Pursuit Lasers: The second-likeliest combo-piece.

Tactical Jammer: ...No. Just, no. Literally useless when you're the only ship on your side.

Potentially Useful EPTs

Opportunist: Less useful when you don't have an ally with higher pilot skill to peel Focii and Evades off your opposition. Still, you may find targets anyway, and 5 dice hurt.

Push the Limit: Always a useful option, particularly when you've added Barrel-Rolling to your arsenal. We may be able to do better, though.

Predator: Against low PS targets, this is practically having a free Target Lock on every opposing ship. Against mid-high PS targets, it's almost as good.

Stay On Target: Against low-mid PS targets, this will make you incredibly dangerous, as you can consistently find the sweet-spot to land. Against high PS targets, this gains no advantage.

Lone Wolf: This will always be on in Round 1, and gets slightly worse as the game progresses. However, against mid-high PS targets, it's as good as Predator offensively, but also gives a great defensive bonus.

Veteran's Instincts: Transition from the upper-side of mid PS to actually being a high PS player. Your match-ups improve drastically against high PS fleets.

Determination: 5 hull for crit-soaking behind 2 agility dice = good amount of chance that this gets used...once. Still, it's only one point.

Adrenaline Rush: For when you really need that barrel-roll after a koiogran to not-die, or when you need to koiogran when you've been stressed externally.

Potentially useful Crew:

R2D2: The only regeneration available to us. With 2 agility dice, you're less likely to gather the hull-damage that this could turn foul, so it's substantially better here than on a theoretical 5 hull Falcon.

Weapons Engineer: You greatly improve your odds of having a damage modifier on a turn in which you barrel-roll or focus defensively.

Recon Specialist: Whether you spend your first focus offensively or defensively, your second one is guaranteed to be there for defense.

Navigator: The YT-2400 has the best Navigator-dial in the game. You could also pair this with Stay On Target for maximum mobility, but at PS7, you still suffer against high PS fleets.

Lando Calrissian: Like Recon Specialist, but can eventually combo with Experimental Interface. However, the chances of coming up with evades are not enough to mitigate the chances of coming up blank. Still, useful against anti-Focus fleets.

Kyle Katarn: Combos beautifully with stress generation. You don't have enough red on your dial to support him, however.

C3P0: Proven good on Fat Han. However, with 2 dice, this actually gets worse. Still, it's far from being bad.

Tactician: A large-ship's barrel-roll means that you have a better chance of stressing your opponent than most ships, even if this does only trigger at Range 2 in your arc.

Mercenary Co-Pilot: A large-ship's barrel-roll means that you have a better chance of critting your opponent. Notably, this still works out-of-arc and with an HLC.

Leebo: Boost for cheaper than Engine Upgrade.

Jan Ors: Alone, this practically says "Add Evade to your action bar". Upon adding more ships, this actively improves.

Alternatively, we could float those points through to Round 2 or 3, for 5 points of improvements on Corran Horn or the Bandits.

Two fantastic replies there and gives me a lot to think about, thanks Dracon!

Okay. Let's keep those 5 points as a buffer, for now. We can find where to put them after we've got the soul of your roll-out figured out. Meanwhile, have a questionnaire, followed by advice.

Which ships/upgrades are the most important to your fleet?

Ships? Clearly Dash and Corran. Upgrades? Outrider + HLC and FCS. Are there others?

Agreed on all counts here, Corran can still do his thing without anything else.

Are there any ships/upgrades that rely on a previous ship/upgrade to exist before joining in?

Outrider cannot function without HLC. Are there others?

Again, agreed.

Are there considerations to the likely metagame included?

If so, when do we expect the metagame to hurt our fleet if we include our considerations too late?

Not for me to answer, I'm afraid.

Going off the tournament that was held last week I would say there will be a good number of Decimators and 2,400's, followed by some Fat Hans nad Phantoms, shuttles and swarms.

Are there ships/upgrades that act merely as filler?

Arguably, the R2 Unit, Push the Limit, Engine Upgrades, and Bandit Squadron Pilots. These may alternatively be weak answers to no. 1, or hidden answers to no. 3.

I like PtL and EU because of the extra options they give you, they would also make my opponent think twice about where I will end up(if they have lower PS). That last point makes me think about VI to Dash, I would add it to Corran but I think PtL will suit him better. The R2 is there to give more stress relief options to Corran.

Calling the Bandits 'filler' has got me thinking. Do I -

1. Just use 4 Bandits which still leaves me 4 points taking the above into consideration.

2. Have mixture of 2 Bandits and 2 Talas to give me two blockers and then two who may get shots i quicker against swarms.

3. Use 4 Talas which would take me to 150 points.

4. Lastly, go a different and add some X's or Y's into the equation. X's would give me more firepower(?) whereas the Y's would give me a lot more HP and could add some control with Ion Turrets.

The answers to the first question should be included in Wave 2 at the latest.

The answers to the second question should be included in Wave 2 at the earliest, unless all other key ships/upgrades can still fit in Wave 2.

The answers to the third question should be included at Wave that is the answer to the fourth.

The answers to the fifth question are wiggle-room, and should either be discarded, re-defined, or included as late as possible.

Going off the tournament that was held last week I would say there will be a good number of Decimators and 2,400's, followed by some Fat Hans and Phantoms, shuttles and swarms.

This begs the follow-up:

If they run these lists, in which rounds will their list overpower you if you do not add a counter?

What counters them?

Decimators: Swarms, multi-attacks, pure damage, and stuff to remove the potency of Crew and Bombs. This is still a relative unknown in my meta.

YT-2400: A very mobile Corran Horn will counter them decently well if they've got the doughnut-dash. Moreover, if you can counter the Phantoms' mobility and the Decimator/Hans tankiness, you've countered all builds of this as well.

Fat Hans: Swarms and Multi-attacks. This list has very low offense relative to its cost, but is a mountain to chew through. Use as many teeth as possible, because its defense falls sharply after the first attack per round.

Phantoms: You've got a giant turret. Protect your donut-hole, and you'll still punch through their cloak if they can shoot at you. Their best chance against you/Fat Hans/ Decimators is to go with a VI Whisper, which beats your PS anyway (unless you Roark).

Shuttles: An interesting problem to have. What builds are they running? Your mobility and your cannonade will do you well in this match-up, but that's potentially 30 HP to chew through in Wave 2.

Swarms: A very difficult nugget to beat for you. Probably more of an issue for Wave 2+ than Wave 1, as your 2 defensive dice will do you well when they don't have Howlrunner. Still, an anti-swarm defensive buff will do you well.

I like PtL and EU because of the extra options they give you, they would also make my opponent think twice about where I will end up(if they have lower PS). That last point makes me think about VI to Dash, I would add it to Corran but I think PtL will suit him better. The R2 is there to give more stress relief options to Corran.

Calling the Bandits 'filler' has got me thinking. Do I -

1. Just use 4 Bandits which still leaves me 4 points taking the above into consideration.

2. Have mixture of 2 Bandits and 2 Talas to give me two blockers and then two who may get shots i quicker against swarms.

3. Use 4 Talas which would take me to 150 points.

4. Lastly, go a different and add some X's or Y's into the equation. X's would give me more firepower(?) whereas the Y's would give me a lot more HP and could add some control with Ion Turrets.

This is why I asked. Now you're thinking with portals! Escalation!

I was going to post, but nothing I say now will be nearly as good as what has already been said.

Incidentally, my own Escalation list:

I started with :

Round 1: 5x Academies

Round 2: + Academy + Howlrunner

Round 3: + Academy + Scimitar (+ 2 point Initiative bid)

Round 4: + 2x Scimitars

In rounds 3 and 4, I expected Howlrunner to die early, so if I sacrifice a ship, I'll buff her defenses.

I basically only fear fleets with Assault Missiles (You can fire 8 at once in Round 4, which will slay me) or Ruthlesseness (En masse only. Otherwise, the Ruthless ship is dead ASAP).

By Round 4, I want to have at least 10 ships, but may be persuaded to go down to 9 if I truly need the upgrades.

So: 5, or 17-21 points of wiggle-room.

What am I expecting to see in my local metagame?

Fat Han, HSF, Phantoms, Swarm, Assault Missile Barrage, and Synergy fleets.

• I do not fear Fat Han, HSF, or Synergy fleets.
• Assault Missile Barrage is a counter to my fleet, so I need to protect against this, even if I have relatively small odds of facing it.
• Phantoms will assassinate Howlrunner, and then I have no damage, so I need to protect against this.

How do I protect against them?

• Do not sacrifice my Swarm, or this match-up will worsen.
• Kagi on the Flank.
• Gunner, Stress to prevent Adv. Cloak, Blocking to prevent Decloak, Non-Combat damage, and possibly more.

Can I repurpose any of these counter-picks to counter multiple things?

• Kagi can theoretically have Gunner and Stress mechanics, though the Phantom eats him alive in the end-game.
• The Swarm deals with the Blocking aspect easily enough.
• The Scimitar possibilities add Non-Combat damage through Bombs.

In which waves are these fleets problematic?

• The Assault Barrage fleet will likely start with them in Wave 1. Doing so earns him a maximum of 3 assault missiles against 5 TIEs. I can fly out of formation easily enough then.
  In Wave 2, he can have 5 with Munitions Failsafe as well. Against 7 TIEs, this is now officially an issue.
• The Phantom fleet will likely start with them in Wave 1.
• If I counterpick at Wave 1 or Wave 2, Fat Han (et al.) will become a threat again.

Now I have a dilemma with no elegant solutions.

I do love that Draco is giving us both a hand Ben.

I do love that Draco is giving us both a hand Ben.

Are y'all playing in the same tournament? You have GOT to get me a play-by-play, particularly if you wind up facing each other

I do love that Draco is giving us both a hand Ben.

Are y'all playing in the same tournament? You have GOT to get me a play-by-play, particularly if you wind up facing each other

We're twins! We're having a round 1 and round 2 practice tonight! Give us an idea what we might want to add

We're twins! We're having a round 1 and round 2 practice tonight! Give us an idea what we might want to add

Hmm...

Round 1:

BCooper85 runs Dash Rendar + Title + HLC + 7 point Initiative Bid + 5 points of **Something**

SDCC runs Royal Guard + Title + PTL and Bounty Hunter + 1 point Initiative Bid + 1 point of **Something**

BCooper85 will get the decision of Initiative, which will only matter in the placing of asteroids.

• To better BCooper85's match-up here, you have dozens of options as outlined above. The Bounty Hunter is as survivable as you are, and the Royal Guard drives SDCC's list into better survivability and damage. You'll want to kill it as soon as possible, then move on to killing the BH. You've got decent odds of 1-shotting it, and any increase in damage will give you an edge on fighting the BH as well. Of the upgrades I posted above, that leaves us with: Opportunist, Push the Limit, Predator, Lone Wolf, Weapons Engineer, Tactician, and Mercenary Co-Pilot. As your goal is to 1-shot a PTL Royal Guard, Opportunist, Predator, and Tactician fare poorly, leaving us with PTL, Lone Wolf, Weapons Engineer, and Merc Co. In ascending order of my preference, we have:
  • ​PTL + WE: Too expensive at 6 points.
  • LW + WE: It may look like Lone Wolf and Weapons Engineer have antisynergy. However, if you only need to re-roll the one die, you no longer need to spend your Target Lock, allowing you to get great damage mileage out of your Focus and Barrel-Roll actions. Still, we can do better.
  • PTL + MC: Double-actions act both offensively and defensively, thanks to Focus and Barrel-Roll. Moreover, this will let you get a great Crit chance by consistently barrel-rolling into Range 3, then taking an offensive action. Also, with the Barrel-Roll and the Green Range 1 Banks, you'll be able to get a lot of lateral mobility out of Pushing the Limit often. Use this intelligently!
  • LW + MC: Like the above, except instead of using an offensive action, you get a free re-roll of 1 die offensively and defensively, and it causes you no stress.
• To better SDCC's match-up here (and against Phantoms, and improving the RG pilots), I'd give the Bounty Hunter an Intelligence Agent. Enemy ships want to snuggle close to the Bounty Hunter's blind at close range, and this will either dissuade them or allow your Royal Guards to utterly annihilate them for their decisions. Of course, Dash will want to be at Range 2-3, and has a large-base Barrel-Roll to enable this. However, in forcing his action with a passive ability, you control the action economy and come out ahead even if you never get to glimpse his dial.

Round 2:

BCooper85 runs Dash + Outrider + HLC + (Lone Wolf/Push the Limit + Mercenary Co-Pilot) and Corran Horn + Fire-Control System + Initiative Bid of 0-1.

SDCC runs Bounty Hunter (+ Intelligence Agent) and 2x Royal Guards + Push the Limit + Stealth Device + Title + Initiative Bid of 0

• BCooper85: this time you want to change tactics. The Royal Guards are no-longer your best target: the Bounty Hunter and the Intelligence Agent it carries give far too much agency to them, and they are also more difficult to 1-shot.

  Adding Corran Horn means you can focus down the BH fairly quickly and efficiently. You also need to have Corran and Dash take defensive actions and arc-jumping barrel-rolls as often as possible, as you're outgunned until you kill something.

• SDCC: this time you have an advantage. Be very aggressive with your positioning, while taking defensive actions on the Firespray and Interceptors. The Intelligence Agent now has two possible targets, and while they both have Barrel-Rolls to get out of its range, this still works to your advantage. You also have the ability to guard both of your flanks now.

I was going to post, but nothing I say now will be nearly as good as what has already been said.

I'd still like to hear what you have to say!

We're twins! We're having a round 1 and round 2 practice tonight! Give us an idea what we might want to add

Hmm...

Round 1:

BCooper85 runs Dash Rendar + Title + HLC + 7 point Initiative Bid + 5 points of **Something**

SDCC runs Royal Guard + Title + PTL and Bounty Hunter + 1 point Initiative Bid + 1 point of **Something**

BCooper85 will get the decision of Initiative, which will only matter in the placing of asteroids.

• To better BCooper85's match-up here, you have dozens of options as outlined above. The Bounty Hunter is as survivable as you are, and the Royal Guard drives SDCC's list into better survivability and damage. You'll want to kill it as soon as possible, then move on to killing the BH. You've got decent odds of 1-shotting it, and any increase in damage will give you an edge on fighting the BH as well. Of the upgrades I posted above, that leaves us with: Opportunist, Push the Limit, Predator, Lone Wolf, Weapons Engineer, Tactician, and Mercenary Co-Pilot. As your goal is to 1-shot a PTL Royal Guard, Opportunist, Predator, and Tactician fare poorly, leaving us with PTL, Lone Wolf, Weapons Engineer, and Merc Co. In ascending order of my preference, we have:
  • ​PTL + WE: Too expensive at 6 points.
  • LW + WE: It may look like Lone Wolf and Weapons Engineer have antisynergy. However, if you only need to re-roll the one die, you no longer need to spend your Target Lock, allowing you to get great damage mileage out of your Focus and Barrel-Roll actions. Still, we can do better.
  • PTL + MC: Double-actions act both offensively and defensively, thanks to Focus and Barrel-Roll. Moreover, this will let you get a great Crit chance by consistently barrel-rolling into Range 3, then taking an offensive action. Also, with the Barrel-Roll and the Green Range 1 Banks, you'll be able to get a lot of lateral mobility out of Pushing the Limit often. Use this intelligently!
  • LW + MC: Like the above, except instead of using an offensive action, you get a free re-roll of 1 die offensively and defensively, and it causes you no stress.
• To better SDCC's match-up here (and against Phantoms, and improving the RG pilots), I'd give the Bounty Hunter an Intelligence Agent. Enemy ships want to snuggle close to the Bounty Hunter's blind at close range, and this will either dissuade them or allow your Royal Guards to utterly annihilate them for their decisions. Of course, Dash will want to be at Range 2-3, and has a large-base Barrel-Roll to enable this. However, in forcing his action with a passive ability, you control the action economy and come out ahead even if you never get to glimpse his dial.

Round 2:

BCooper85 runs Dash + Outrider + HLC + (Lone Wolf/Push the Limit + Mercenary Co-Pilot) and Corran Horn + Fire-Control System + Initiative Bid of 0-1.

SDCC runs Bounty Hunter (+ Intelligence Agent) and 2x Royal Guards + Push the Limit + Stealth Device + Title + Initiative Bid of 0

• BCooper85: this time you want to change tactics. The Royal Guards are no-longer your best target: the Bounty Hunter and the Intelligence Agent it carries give far too much agency to them, and they are also more difficult to 1-shot.

  Adding Corran Horn means you can focus down the BH fairly quickly and efficiently. You also need to have Corran and Dash take defensive actions and arc-jumping barrel-rolls as often as possible, as you're outgunned until you kill something.

• SDCC: this time you have an advantage. Be very aggressive with your positioning, while taking defensive actions on the Firespray and Interceptors. The Intelligence Agent now has two possible targets, and while they both have Barrel-Rolls to get out of its range, this still works to your advantage. You also have the ability to guard both of your flanks now.

Again, what a response!

And Dracon...just call us Ben and Chris

Aye Cap'n!

So Chris and I just had two games posing as our first round in the escalation tournament; I used Dash with HLC/Outrider/Mercenary Co-Pilot/Lone Wolf(as above) and Chris used a Bounty Hunter accompanied by Omnicron Group Pilot with Darth Vader(so a doom shuttle).

The first game ended pretty quickly. Chris placed his shuttle and firespray poorly which gave me the advantage straight off the bat, I got round behind the shuttle within 3 turns and took him out, the firespray fell shortly after.

The second game went very differently! Chris placed his ships much better and within 4/5 turns they were both on me, he finally got use out of Vader which left Dash with one hull. The firepsray finished him off. Looking back I mucked up a couple of moves which left in the 'doughnut hole', it may well have been a different story if I got those two shots off.

I know this is more of a batrep but it seems Dracon's overall comments really helped us both!

Best part of this batrep?
"This is why X lost". Self analysis leads to self improvement

Also, thanks!

sweet thread and plenty of food for thought. Keep them coming!

To come at it from the other side....

It was a mixed bag but I think we both came out happy in the end.

I completely mucked up the first game purely by putting the Lambda is a stupid place (near asteroids forgetting how bad the dial is) and the BH ended up the other side of the board to Dash and didn't get into the centre quickly enough. I was asking for a pasting and I got it.

Second game however was a different story.

I set the BH at a 45 degree angle on facing in on the left hand side of the board. If Dash was on my side I'd just bank. If he was opposite I could shoot forward. All options covered nicely. I was more savvy with the Lambda and despite parking it on an asteroid once I got a good Vader hit on Dash and both ships got in on him.

The BH got inside the doughnut a couple of times with was lovely too. I think last night it dawned on me that the FireSpray actually has a really good dial. I will be taking better advantage of it in the future.

First time I've used a Doomshuttle, and though I only got Vader in once, I'm pretty pleased with him. 6 damage output from the two ships and 20 HP looks pretty formidable.

So though the first game was terrible, I learnt from it and really enjoyed the second game. Dash isn't invincible!