Real life example:

F-18 hornet vs. F-18E super hornet.

these are very different aircraft despite having a visually similar airframe. Just because the new X-wings look a lot like the old ones doesn't mean that it's not a significant advancement. In the EU a faster version (as fast as an A-wing) was developed shortly after endor. In (i think) the joiner king there was a mention of a "chase X" which I think is a fast version. There were stealth-X and XJ X-wings during the NJO and the NJ was basically an original x-wing on steroids (in terms of being able to dish out and absorb punishment). So I wouldn't be surprised if these new x-wings are the next level of awesome despite having a similar appearance to the old ones.

Better example

The F-15 production line is set to end in 2019, 47 years after the type's first flight.[/size]

Good grief, what a boring thread derailment I get to say so 'cause it's my OP

Anyway, what occurred to me reading the rumours was that if they're true, it's even *more* Edge of the Empire. It really has that feeling of dissolution and decay and, well, edginess that I really like as a canon viewer and RPG player. AoR will also still have a solid footing.

However, F&D feels even more like what I thought it was when the beta was first released: these aren't really careers you start with at chargen, they are specs you work into after having started with a non-Force career.

Finally!

A debate over out-of-context "Star Wars" minutiae with a minimum of actual information that the new trailer deserves.

The "cross saber" debate was childish prattle by comparison!*

*Note: While I am drawing attention to the inherent silliness, I also fully acknowledge that such silliness is one of the most important foundations of the fandom and would never, actually try to discourage it.

Good grief, what a boring thread derailment I get to say so 'cause it's my OP

Anyway, what occurred to me reading the rumours was that if they're true, it's even *more* Edge of the Empire. It really has that feeling of dissolution and decay and, well, edginess that I really like as a canon viewer and RPG player. AoR will also still have a solid footing.

However, F&D feels even more like what I thought it was when the beta was first released: these aren't really careers you start with at chargen, they are specs you work into after having started with a non-Force career.

It is nice to read rumors that don't make me face slap. The EoE setting/mind set is the 'funnest' part of Star Wars.

So, we want to see radical changes to vehicles, but absolutely no changes to lightsabers.

Got it.

Fighter and warship designs change much faster then sword designs do, especially when the swords in question are primarily the traditional weapons of two religious orders with very low memberships.

Really? Is your sarcasme radar that bad?

Its hard to tell sarcasm from text unless it says it is being sarcastic somehow.

It was pretty obvious to me... The "So...?" and "Got it." were a dead giveaway...

On a more serious note, it would make sense that a drawn out, 30-year-long quagmire of an attrition war would stifle the ability to put new ideas on the field. From the threads, it seems like infrastructure has been destroyed, re-built and destroyed again.

Possible but it would take a lot of damage to inflict anything like that on even one planet much less dozens, hundreds, or thousands of ship producing planets

In episode VII we find out that Darth Vader is Luke's father!

.. oh wait...

Episode V, my bad!

The X-Wings in the trailer have enough visual changes to be a successor to the X-Wings we saw back in the OT. There is no way the movie is just gonna play it off as they are the same ships.

Also, the fact that we saw X-Wings and TIE Fighters, but nothing else is not even close to proof that there are not other ships.

True. How this whole thing got started was me saying I would be very disappointed if there were new designs and things snowballed from there into a discussion over whether or not the Alliance/whatever they are calling themselves now and the Empire had the need, and capability to create new designs or if they would use nothing but upgraded models of their OT era designs..

The X-wing has always been touted as a great design. In my opinion it's no wonder that we are only seeing an upgrade to it. If it's not broke, it doesn't need fixed.

There also may be something we don't know yet. Such as perhaps the setting suggesting the Galaxy has been worn down by an on-going multi-decade war leading to a suffering industrial complex. Thus, upgrades to current models are more plentiful then completely new and costly R&D'd designs.

In episode VII we find out that Darth Vader is Luke's father!

.. oh wait...

Episode V, my bad!

In episode VII we find out that Darth Vader is Luke's father!

.. oh wait...

Episode V, my bad!

No.. in episode VII we find out Luke is also Vader's Father!

Well yeah. Luke uses the Force to go back in time on Tatooine, meeting Shmi and having a little dalliance. The back in time reset is the thing to do these days, don't you know.

Please JJ...please don't put Time Travel or Alternate Universe issues in Star Wars. I beg you not to do that. No "The Force" hand wave to explain away paradoxes or "Rifts in Time" and let's all forget about micro organisms leaching off of people and giving them super powers, okay?

Things I think that will not happen in Star Wars movies ever:

Time travel

Flashbacks

Weightlessness for protracted periods of time

Adherence to actual physics

To be fair: time travel and alternate timelines, as applied in the "nuTrek", was an established trope in "Star Trek" going back to the OS.

Whatever else (for better or for worse) JJ added or infused on his own, time travel wasn't one of them.

I love nerd rage. I don't care what gets done as long as I enjoy it. Just as I enjoy watching people freak out. Like with some of the nerd rage over the new Terminator trailer.

"What? More time travel? To reset everything?"

Heh heh. Yeah I really don't understand why they're using that old trope in the Terminator series.

Fun times.

The X-wing has always been touted as a great design. In my opinion it's no wonder that we are only seeing an upgrade to it. If it's not broke, it doesn't need fixed.

There also may be something we don't know yet. Such as perhaps the setting suggesting the Galaxy has been worn down by an on-going multi-decade war leading to a suffering industrial complex. Thus, upgrades to current models are more plentiful then completely new and costly R&D'd designs.

The X-Wing is a great general purpose fighter but that didn't stop the Alliance from developing the more specialized A-Wing and B-Wing craft. If they don't alter the B-Wing's back story it was intended as a replacement for the Y-Wing. That means there was at most 26 years between deployment of the Y-Wing and deployment of the design meant to replace it though upgraded Y-Wings were still widely used. Even if the upgraded X-Wing is still the standard general purpose snub fighter model for the Alliance's successors are we supposed to believe no one has come up with a concept for a fighter or warship design which would be more easily filled by designing a new fighter or warship rather then modifying an old one in 30 years of warfare? Or that galaxy wide military R&D is down to below the R&D resources the Alliance had before Endor?

So, we want to see radical changes to vehicles, but absolutely no changes to lightsabers.

Got it.

They changed it! Now it sucks!

oh - wait. It's the same! Now it sucks!

The X-wing has always been touted as a great design. In my opinion it's no wonder that we are only seeing an upgrade to it. If it's not broke, it doesn't need fixed.

There also may be something we don't know yet. Such as perhaps the setting suggesting the Galaxy has been worn down by an on-going multi-decade war leading to a suffering industrial complex. Thus, upgrades to current models are more plentiful then completely new and costly R&D'd designs.

The X-Wing is a great general purpose fighter but that didn't stop the Alliance from developing the more specialized A-Wing and B-Wing craft. If they don't alter the B-Wing's back story it was intended as a replacement for the Y-Wing. That means there was at most 26 years between deployment of the Y-Wing and deployment of the design meant to replace it though upgraded Y-Wings were still widely used. Even if the upgraded X-Wing is still the standard general purpose snub fighter model for the Alliance's successors are we supposed to believe no one has come up with a concept for a fighter or warship design which would be more easily filled by designing a new fighter or warship rather then modifying an old one in 30 years of warfare? Or that galaxy wide military R&D is down to below the R&D resources the Alliance had before Endor?

Did you ever stop to think why the x wing has wings the spread to an x? It's to put more distance between the lasers so they won't all cluster at the same spot. Now what kind of spread would you want? You'd want spread about the size of a fighter and that's what locking s foils in attack position gives you. Now why might you want a single wing? Less drag for starters, but you would also want an airfoil that could provide lift so that you could glide in unpowered, no power no engine signature, it's a lot harder to detect. There is no way an awing, or y wing is going to glide in unpowered, a b wing might be able to but that's somewhat dubious. It'd be really tough to control. Look at the forward fuselage of the new X-wing, it's a little bit of a lifting body which helps with the unpowered glide. Collapsing the wings also gives you a smaller side profile. It's a very functional design. The engines have likely been "completely" redesigned because they are no longer the same shape. And you would expect a complete avionics upgrade.

And note when we saw the X-wings they were flying in atmosphere. Of the original trilogy fighters, the X-wing is the only one that would have good atmospheric handling. You would not want an a, b, or y wing for a dogfight in atmosphere. The only thing an A-Wing was good for was as an an exo-atmospheric interceptor. The X-wing has always been described as a great all purpose space superiority fighter, it's a substantially better than decent dog-fighter, that can take a lot of punishment, and carry enough armament to function as a respectable bomber. I'm sure that the new republic (or whatever the alliance is calling themselves these days) has other fighters for specialized purposes. But logically an X-wing raised to the next level SHOULD BE the most common fighter in the fleet and for a mission involving atmospheric combat it should be their first choice.

Don't forget that the alliance didn't design the X-wing a very established and respected (by galactic standards) corporation (incom) did and it was their crowning achievement before the empire put them out of business. No other original trilogy rebel fighter had that kind of pedigree. How long do you think it would take to get another design firm with that kind of expertise and knowledge base (corporate knowledge/process) put together and working as a well oiled machine. And even when they are, they're going to build off the current king of the hill. It is logical that some version of X-wing-ish fighter is still seeing a lot of action.

I never ever said I didn't think it was logical for the X-Wing to still be around. What I said was that I hope they show some new designs rather then sticking exclusively to up dates of OT models.

Also most of the rebel fighters had a well known design pedigree. The Y-Wing was a Republic fighter in the Clone Wars. The B-Wing was designed by a joint effort of Ackbar and the firm that designed the Clone Wars era V-19s. The A-Wing's lead designer was one of if not the most prolific ship designer of the Clone Wars Republic forces having served as designer of the Delta-7, Eta-2, and Alpha-3 Nimbus V-Wing fighters, and the Victory and Gladiator class Star Destroyers