I have seen the movies (again ) recently.

Really this game system fails to simulate the "feeling" of the star ship shields in the movies. Before fundamentalist of the game go mad, although this game system is rather good, no system is perfect.

In the movies, systematically, shields have to be dealt with before you can start damaging the ship. We always see that shields can take a certain amount of damage before they collapse, then and only then you can start destroying the ship it self. There are also some scenes where you see people in panic because shields are going down, but then they can redirect some energy to them and save some time.

This is not reflected in any manner with the set back dice system.

I think that may be a better option would have been to give Shields the role of Hull Trauma. That is, they have a certain amount of damage they can take before collapsing. In that way also, the action that allows you to repair hull trauma will nicely mimic the scenes where they manage to redirect energy to the shields.

Additionally, hull trauma should be totally gone from the picture, that is, the moment you loose your shields you are susceptible of suffering severe damage (critical hits).

Finally the armour value of the ship should take the role of the shields, that is, add set back dice to the attack roll (only once the shields are down) to reflect that sometimes you hit a very well protected part of the hull (a high roll with the dice) or sometimes you hit a very exposed part of the ship (low roll).

Just a thought

Hi Yepesnopes!

After watching some Clone Wars/Rebels and even movies, my main player and I arrived to an aproximated conclusion to yours. We have created a patch, that until the moment, works 100% with our playstyle trying to simulate movies/series. If we find a bug, we will report it

You only have to add a new value to the game that doesn't slow the combat so much. Here it is the rule:

• Shields version 2.0

They have a value called - Shield X: Add X Failure to the attackers roll that only applies to a BASE damage equal or inferior to that value that we called Shield Power. If the BASE damage value is superior to Shield Power, add Setbacks as usual.

Values from Shields are the same (to take it easy) than the actual ones. You just have to add the Shield Power value. As a sample here you got.

- A heavy freighter shields stats can be can be easily: Shield 2, 1, 1, 2. Shield Power 8

Hope this helps

Since I haven’t recently seen the movies too … (last summer, Star Wars Episode IV Original Edition : Han’s shooting first. Yeah, I’m that kind of freak) I have to quickly check my Star Wars Scripts (yeah, I’m definitively that kind of freak!).

The characters don’t seem to talk a lot about deflector shields: they check, they angle and sometimes, they lose them. And when it happens, Han don’t seem devastated. But, it's Han Solo.

Maybe I just too quickly check my scripts.

Star Wars shields are deflector shields, we can assume that a direct hit (roll blank on the setback dice) just ignores them.

Star Wars shields don’t seem to be as important as Star Trek shields: when those shields are down, the Enterprise is seriously threatened, could be badly damaged and Starfleet may needs to built another (in Star Trek VI, the Enterprise-A is decommissioned after the battle of Khitomer and in Star Trek: Generation, the Enterprise-D crashes down on Veridian III).

But, maybe it’s too much Star Trek references in a Star Wars forum.

On a second thought, maybe we are to used to the former Star Wars rules, where shields were basically extra hit points or dices added to the Hull score.

So, in those rules, shields add some setback dices that can make difference in a combat.

Hi Ali!

Clone Wars have a different perspective and seems to focus a bit more on shields (also Ep 6 with Super Star Destroyer or Ep1 Confederation Battleships and Droidekas).

In CW seems that when Republic Cruisers shields are gone, they become just a massive hull awaiting to be destroyed XD

So, from my point of view, shield seems that have a really good importance there. Not sure if our patch fix this effect, but seems that make the scenes a bit more closer to the mechanics

Hi Josep,

I think that your "fix" to the shields approach by FFG is a good one, but I would rather remove mechanics (i.e. the hull trauma) than add new mechanics.

Regarding what Ali says... I don't know. All I have seen in the SW movies is what Josep says. The moment the defelctor shields are down, the ship is very vulnerable, but you have to put them down first, otherwise you cannot harm it (Death star aside, were the shield thing may be understood as a plot tool).

Similarly, I have only seen instances and references to deflector shield zones in very big starships, like star desrtoyers, never in star fighters neither in the milenium falcon.

Not PERFECT!? WHA!? This system is the definition of perfection!! You are not a true fan you silly cross guard loving lightsaber lover!!!

Go to www.dictionary.com and type in "perfection" and it says "See the Fantasy Flight Star Wars Edge of the Empire Role Playing Game System."

I'm just messing around.

I agree that the shields could be done better. And Astrogation, but for the purposes of the system, and as little starship combat I do, it works. As far as navigation, it really just a roll to see if they can shave time off of a trip really. If the plot needs them to get to plant Calxatron, then the game shouldn't be over if they can't make the roll to get to Calxatron. If we do more starship combat then I might try out something like what Joesp suggested.

So, in conclusion, I just really have nothing to add to the posting, I just wanted to tease you a little about your thoughts on the system.

(Which I do love, but I agree is not "perfect". No gaming system can be.)

Hi Ali!

Clone Wars have a different perspective and seems to focus a bit more on shields (also Ep 6 with Super Star Destroyer or Ep1 Confederation Battleships and Droidekas).

In CW seems that when Republic Cruisers shields are gone, they become just a massive hull awaiting to be destroyed XD

So, from my point of view, shield seems that have a really good importance there. Not sure if our patch fix this effect, but seems that make the scenes a bit more closer to the mechanics

Hi Josep,

I’m always uncomfortable in modifying rules, especially beta tested rules. But maybe, Yepesnopes and Josep Maria are seeding the idea of a new edition of the Star Wars RPG (blast ! another 100 bucks to spend in role-playing game*).

I don’t remember the effects of the Confederacy battleship shields**, but the effectiveness of the droideka shields seems indeed to contradict FFG's shields rules.

Maybe, droideka shields does not works as the personal defense shields as it described in the rulebook. Maybe, personal defense shields are ineffective against starship weapons (oops! house rule).

In the Return of the Jedi, Admiral Akbar orders the Rebel fleet to “concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer”, maybe this order causes several critical hits on the Executor during several off-screen attacks.

Then, it's just a pair of A-Wing starfighters who destroys the Executor’s shields generator dome with a volley of missiles (result 82 – 90 on the Critical Hit result table). Thus, a badly damaged A-Wing pilot kamikazes his starfighter right into the command bridge of the super star destroyer (another critical hit 145 – 155, maybe more) causing it to crash on the death star.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZigWFyK2o

* 50 € for Edge of the Empire, second edition, 50 € for Age of Rebellion, second edition.

** Which means that I have to watch again The Phantom Menace! Well done Josep Maria.

Hi Josep,

I’m always uncomfortable in modifying rules, especially beta tested rules. But maybe, Yepesnopes and Josep Maria are seeding the idea of a new edition of the Star Wars RPG (blast ! another 100 bucks to spend in role-playing game*).

Ufff! I am too lazy to even house rule it for my own games For the few vehicle combats we have in our games it is not worth the effort, we never got attracted by this aspect of the game system. While we manage to have very fast and furious personal scale combats, we never managed to create the same feeling with space combat, something in the mechanics of vehicle combat and how we implement them does not fit.

I was just posting this for some theoretization of the game mechanics design.

Hi Josep,

I’m always uncomfortable in modifying rules, especially beta tested rules. But maybe, Yepesnopes and Josep Maria are seeding the idea of a new edition of the Star Wars RPG (blast ! another 100 bucks to spend in role-playing game*).

Ufff! I am too lazy to even house rule it for my own games For the few vehicle combats we have in our games it is not worth the effort, we never got attracted by this aspect of the game system. While we manage to have very fast and furious personal scale combats, we never managed to create the same feeling with space combat, something in the mechanics of vehicle combat and how we implement them does not fit.

I was just posting this for some theoretization of the game mechanics design.

See what you've done, I gonna loose money and enrich FFG-Asmodée, Lucasfilm-Disney ... Amazon. Just because I'm weak & geek.

Just my notes:

Not all shields in star wars appear to be created equal...

Death star ii shields need to be dropped.

Droidekia shields are near impenetrable unless hit with something vehicle scale.

But the falcons shields still seem to allow hits through, as do star destroyers.

And as noted, we don't get much feedback on the importance of shields in the films. Just a mention when they failed or are shifted around...

Just my notes:

Not all shields in star wars appear to be created equal...

Death star ii shields need to be dropped.

Droidekia shields are near impenetrable unless hit with something vehicle scale.

But the falcons shields still seem to allow hits through, as do star destroyers.

And as noted, we don't get much feedback on the importance of shields in the films. Just a mention when they failed or are shifted around...

It's almost as though shields in Star Wars have a strength of "plot" -- as in 'how tough do we need these shields to be to make the story interesting

Figure out the same thing for the story you as gm and players want and then take it from there!

I think of the scene with the falcon fleeing from the Star Destroyer in ESB. In one scene the falcon is clearly hit and rocked badly from a direct hit from a turbo laser. Damage is clearly inflicted, but the shields are still active, but 3PO freaks out that one more direct hit and they're done for. In this way, the system works just fine.

What this doesn't cover is Droideka shield or Gungan technology. I think in those examples, as was once posted elsewhere may have a Deflect/Absorb quality. So far they have not been statted out officially.

The main reason of all movies/series (Star Wars included) is plot... doesn't matter when or where you kiss the girl/boy... at that space-continua moment will appear your girl/boyfriend XDD

Backing to movies and game mechanics. I "ignore" hyperspace times and only used the Hazzard or similar rules. Time is plot.

About shields. I tested those samples with our houserule, and almost work on 100% of the cases. Just adjust the Shield Power or Shield value itseld (rare) and remember that PROBABLY a combat scene is about 1 minute (not writen rule).

With scales I have to say that also I divide Personal (normal), Vehicle/light armored (x5) and Starship/heavy armored (x10).

With this two part, we emulate movies/series at almost 100%... the rest are Triumphs and Despair XD

I have seen the movies (again ) recently.

Really this game system fails to simulate the "feeling" of the star ship shields in the movies. Before fundamentalist of the game go mad, although this game system is rather good, no system is perfect.

I can't agree more, and said as much when EotE was first released. The shield mechanic is completely flavourless. This thought popped into my head again watching the latest episode of Rebels...the shield status is a major part of how combats play out.

Related to this is that I don't think the vehicle combat really captures any of the flavour of how it's presented in the media. In the media it's all about resource management...where the shields are at, can you reroute more power to the engines at their expense, can you try and "boost the shields"...none of this iconic dialogue is conveyable by the current mechanics.

I think the whole starship combat needs a rewrite, or at least an alternate optional set of mechanics (because the current ones are "okay" for chases and the like).

I like your fix, but it only fixes the shields specifically, and only in their role in combat. If they replace Hull Trauma, then how are they recovered over time?

It seems changing the words "Hull Trama" to the word "Shields" would fix this. Just imagine Hull Trama damages the shields and actual critical hits damage the ship itself?. IIRC PC ships start taking crits after hull trama is depleted just like PCs start taking crits after all wounds are depleted. Ships are really just as hard to destroy as PCs?. Massive amounts of Advantage or a Triumph would allow a crit, or "Another direct hit and we're done for!" Am I misunderstanding what you are describing here?

But the falcons shields still seem to allow hits through, as do star destroyers.

My take on this is that there is still an impact, and the shields might only absorb part of the hit. Just the jostling from incoming fire can do damage, even if it doesn't exactly penetrate.

What this doesn't cover is Droideka shield or Gungan technology. I think in those examples, as was once posted elsewhere may have a Deflect/Absorb quality. So far they have not been statted out officially.

Neither the scene in Episode 1 when the Nubian starship flees from the blockade in Naboo

I like your fix, but it only fixes the shields specifically, and only in their role in combat. If they replace Hull Trauma, then how are they recovered over time?

I leave it here for someone else to pick it up and finish it

It seems changing the words "Hull Trama" to the word "Shields" would fix this. Just imagine Hull Trama damages the shields and actual critical hits damage the ship itself?. IIRC PC ships start taking crits after hull trama is depleted just like PCs start taking crits after all wounds are depleted. Ships are really just as hard to destroy as PCs?. Massive amounts of Advantage or a Triumph would allow a crit, or "Another direct hit and we're done for!" Am I misunderstanding what you are describing here?

In the current mechanics though, Hull Trauma costs 500 credits per point to fix...

I think maybe shields should be treated more like Armour (which is Soak), and Armour-as-written doesn't really exist. This kind of "makes sense" from an economics perspective: the energy required to move a huge ship is only going to vastly increase if it's armoured like a tank. Far less expensive to generate a soaking defense through energy shields which you can turn off when you don't need them. Ships might still have an "effective" armour, just because of their mass, or if they're specialized in some way.

Anyway, if shields are armour, anything that bypasses the shields can still cause Hull Trauma. The shields might provide a fixed Soak value, but their capacity would be limited. They might also have a recharge rate. And all of these stats (soak value, capacity, recharge rate) might be tweakable with the right mods, making Mechanics PCs everywhere happy...

Neither the scene in Episode 1 when the Nubian starship flees from the blockade in Naboo

what's a Nubian?

Neither the scene in Episode 1 when the Nubian starship flees from the blockade in Naboo

what's a Nubian?

A ship made on the planet Nubia, in Suns of Fortune. (Right?)

Um, old joke from the movie Chasing Amy...

Neither the scene in Episode 1 when the Nubian starship flees from the blockade in Naboo

what's a Nubian?

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