From a strict lore perspective, "No ship that small has a cloaking device!" is, in general terms, a true sentence.

The reason is that there were several less advanced versions of cloaking devices available to ships, but cumbersome, and not as effective and technologically advanced as the phantom one's.

The phantom's cloaking device was unique both in its design and in the use of the extremely rare stygium crystals. Those were what allowed its small size and extreme functionality.

So, our unfortunate captain should have said... "No ship that small has a cloaking device!... unless it is a TIE Phantom!!!"

To be fair classified project so he probably knew nothing about the phantom, obviously the security was high and if not for the events at imdar alpha the rebels and every one else would of been crushed by thousands of invisible fighters.

Also they were all destroyed by then. So it was technically an accurate statement.

Advanced Cloaking Device is indeed for TIE Phantom only.

But Stygium Particle Accelerator isn´t.

There is a thread somewhere discussing whether this means there will be other cloakable ships.

A sort of (unstable?) cloaking device as an Illicit Upgrade would add a whole lot of problems.

Not in the least making the S&V-faction suddenly the faction with the highest variety of cloakable ships in the Galaxy.

Imagine encountering cloaked HWK´s, Star Vipers, Aggressors and Firesprays

With the Empire having just one type and the Rebels currently none, that would be ridiculous

It could even be a deal-breaker for a large swath of fans due to the complete dissappearance of balance in the game.

If the cost of the cloaking device is high enough, it shouldn't be a problem. You can't fire while cloaked currently. If more ships can cloak, maybe the autoblaster will see some use, as those extra dice are useless against it.

I don't see it as being a deal breaker. If it happens, and I believe it will, it will be pricy. Do you choose a cloaking device or a scyk?

Not meant to read/sound aggressive, but:

Wouldn´t this forum then explode with complaints of fleets of cloaked Firesprays, only to be fought against with ships with autoblaster cannons and autoblaster turrets? Rendering almost all TIE variants useless, the ones complaining the Empire is in for a hard time definately will have a point, won´t they?

Also just fluff wise (sure, not the strongest argument, but an argument still):

The Rebels have no cloaking, the Empire have one ship.

But a bunch of rag-tag bountyhunters, mercenaries, pirates, and general thugs have a cloaking device on almost any type they can lay their hands on? (I forgot the miniswarm of cloaked Z-95´s, Xizor would be very pleased with that)

While The Empire, THE Empire, the almighty Empire which hopefully won´t be portrayed as defeated in Episode VII just because they lost an Emperor, only has one, one bl**dy ship with a cloaking device?

Edited: Hmmm, reading this again after posting it might seem a bit aggressive in tone, if you can speak of such things in writing. Can I call in sleep-deprevation as a mitigating circumstance?

That's why it's unique! Cloaking HWK? Cloaking Firespray? Maybe, sounds fun.

Cloaking Decimator!!?!

Advanced Cloaking Device is indeed for TIE Phantom only.

But Stygium Particle Accelerator isn´t.

There is a thread somewhere discussing whether this means there will be other cloakable ships.

A sort of (unstable?) cloaking device as an Illicit Upgrade would add a whole lot of problems.

Not in the least making the S&V-faction suddenly the faction with the highest variety of cloakable ships in the Galaxy.

Imagine encountering cloaked HWK´s, Star Vipers, Aggressors and Firesprays

With the Empire having just one type and the Rebels currently none, that would be ridiculous

It could even be a deal-breaker for a large swath of fans due to the complete dissappearance of balance in the game.

If the cost of the cloaking device is high enough, it shouldn't be a problem. You can't fire while cloaked currently. If more ships can cloak, maybe the autoblaster will see some use, as those extra dice are useless against it.

I don't see it as being a deal breaker. If it happens, and I believe it will, it will be pricy. Do you choose a cloaking device or a scyk?

Not meant to read/sound aggressive, but:

Wouldn´t this forum then explode with complaints of fleets of cloaked Firesprays, only to be fought against with ships with autoblaster cannons and autoblaster turrets? Rendering almost all TIE variants useless, the ones complaining the Empire is in for a hard time definately will have a point, won´t they?

Also just fluff wise (sure, not the strongest argument, but an argument still):

The Rebels have no cloaking, the Empire have one ship.

But a bunch of rag-tag bountyhunters, mercenaries, pirates, and general thugs have a cloaking device on almost any type they can lay their hands on? (I forgot the miniswarm of cloaked Z-95´s, Xizor would be very pleased with that)

While The Empire, THE Empire, the almighty Empire which hopefully won´t be portrayed as defeated in Episode VII just because they lost an Emperor, only has one, one bl**dy ship with a cloaking device?

Edited: Hmmm, reading this again after posting it might seem a bit aggressive in tone, if you can speak of such things in writing. Can I call in sleep-deprevation as a mitigating circumstance?

Is someone a little bitter that the Empire, THE EMPIRE, only has 1 cloaking ship

Advanced Cloaking Device is indeed for TIE Phantom only.

But Stygium Particle Accelerator isn´t.

There is a thread somewhere discussing whether this means there will be other cloakable ships.

A sort of (unstable?) cloaking device as an Illicit Upgrade would add a whole lot of problems.

Not in the least making the S&V-faction suddenly the faction with the highest variety of cloakable ships in the Galaxy.

Imagine encountering cloaked HWK´s, Star Vipers, Aggressors and Firesprays

With the Empire having just one type and the Rebels currently none, that would be ridiculous

It could even be a deal-breaker for a large swath of fans due to the complete dissappearance of balance in the game.

If the cost of the cloaking device is high enough, it shouldn't be a problem. You can't fire while cloaked currently. If more ships can cloak, maybe the autoblaster will see some use, as those extra dice are useless against it.

I don't see it as being a deal breaker. If it happens, and I believe it will, it will be pricy. Do you choose a cloaking device or a scyk?

Not meant to read/sound aggressive, but:

Wouldn´t this forum then explode with complaints of fleets of cloaked Firesprays, only to be fought against with ships with autoblaster cannons and autoblaster turrets? Rendering almost all TIE variants useless, the ones complaining the Empire is in for a hard time definately will have a point, won´t they?

Also just fluff wise (sure, not the strongest argument, but an argument still):

The Rebels have no cloaking, the Empire have one ship.

But a bunch of rag-tag bountyhunters, mercenaries, pirates, and general thugs have a cloaking device on almost any type they can lay their hands on? (I forgot the miniswarm of cloaked Z-95´s, Xizor would be very pleased with that)

While The Empire, THE Empire, the almighty Empire which hopefully won´t be portrayed as defeated in Episode VII just because they lost an Emperor, only has one, one bl**dy ship with a cloaking device?

Edited: Hmmm, reading this again after posting it might seem a bit aggressive in tone, if you can speak of such things in writing. Can I call in sleep-deprevation as a mitigating circumstance?

Is someone a little bitter that the Empire, THE EMPIRE, only has 1 cloaking ship

*picks himself up after falling of chair laughing*

Nooo, really (innocent voice)

But only as long as the other ones have none!

edited: Owww, now I have to change my avatar back to something Imperial I suppose?

To counter an entire fleet of cloaked, whatever ships, make it a unique upgrade - like experimental interface. You can only have one.

Pricey and unique. There is your balance.

As for the cloaking decimator comment, you haven been reading, I said it should be ab ikkegal upgrade, something that is only avauliavle to the scumm and villiany faction.

To counter an entire fleet of cloaked, whatever ships, make it a unique upgrade - like experimental interface. You can only have one.

Pricey and unique. There is your balance.

As for the cloaking decimator comment, you haven been reading, I said it should be ab ikkegal upgrade, something that is only avauliavle to the scumm and villiany faction.

I like this a lot better

If it is an illicit upgrade would you add a negative or dodgy side to it, maybe to press the cost?

Just like feedback array, Hot Shot Blaster, and Inertial Dampeners. To create a less benificial version.

Such as using the straight 1-template instead of the straight 2-template when decloaking. Showing inferior quality of the cloaking device. Or gaining a stress token after decloaking. Something like that.

I wouldn't do anything to alter the mechanics of the cloak action. The cost for the illegal upgrade should be high in the initial cost, no more. 5-7 points should be good I think, not to mention the cost of the stygium particle accelerator should you want that. So, you would be looking at almost the cost of another ship.

Could we not put more cloaking into the game? In all seriousness? I've had to 'apologize' to too many players and shoppers at the FLGS who didn't want to get involved in the game after doing some research and finding the Phantom. Others, to be sure thought, "Oooh! power gamer piece!" and went into the game only because it existed, to be fair. Not that that's better. And I've definitely watched two people leave the play group after bad experiences with Phantoms, and they were really chill fly casual guys too. No idea if they even still play at home or quit entirely. But I have a sinking feeling. Whether or not it's broken, or why, aside, that doesn't matter to this particular point, it has ruined the play experience for some. We had to gentleman-ban Phantoms from casual play. We had to gentleman-ban Outriders three weeks after gen-con. After release Outrider was forgiven it's trespass and back in. Phantom aint. It is still seen as an uncouth choice if you haven't asked your opponent to play a tourney list and warned them what your bringing, even with the Decimator around. And now you want to find a way to bring more in? Are you goddamn well kidding me?

Even at say "Illicit, 10pts, Cloak Device, Unique, Scum Only(redundant preventative), Your action bar gains the Cloak action. Whenever you perform the Cloak action, receive a stress token". It. Would. Be. Broken.

Any Scum HWK-290. Decloaking range two turret. Banks green as oft does anyway. Ion's you, then LOLs proceed. Not to mention it has an additional hit point. And good god those pilot abilities with cloaks. Still wouldn't break over forty points on their highest pilot Dace Bonearm.

Firespray. Decloaking with two Fire Arcs. Emon Azzamen can now place a proton bomb in any of EIGHTEEN places by going decloak, bomb, move. Twelve of those can be adjusted then within a gap of 2 base widths. Base Mandalorian Merc decloaks at PS5. Boba can decloak at PS10 and be better at the mechanic then it's mother faction ever dreamed and do that at a minuscule 50pts. Kath is basically a phantom on a large base that traded one agility for three hull and three shields. Also can equip Cannons, missiles, and if Slave 1 a torpedo. This would be the most terrifying ship class to put it on off hand I'd say.

Prince Xizor is then capable of going turn one cloak, turn two clear stress, turn three, decloak, boost, push for barrel roll, now move and clear stress off of 1/2/3-straight or 1-bank. And does this for a meager 48 points.

Aggresors. 5 agility while cloaked, on top of twice the hull and shields of the original Phantom. Can decloak into segnor loop, equip cannons, and bombs, and Adv sensors to remove stress after cloaking at the start of activation. Absolutely monstrous. Derp level.

Z-95. Was cute, now it haunts your dreams. Kaato ghosts up around you, steals your focus, shoots you with it. Like a punk. N'dru would have a field day with this thing. N'dru would just be an X-wing that cloaks at that point. A la Shadow squadron.

And that would be only with the first wave of scum. For fairness it would have to be a Mod so any one could take it. Then every tourney list would consist of a Cloaker as your attack element, and a Turret ship to hunt the other guys Cloaker as your defense element. (or two turrets for scum, they don't have a big one yet) That would be the worst most stagnant meta ever. Because the real talk that nobody is saying is that even the mighty Paul Heaver said "Phantoms? I'm bringing a PS9 turret. Eff that noise." I imagine if the rebels had a cloaker at the time we'd have seen that in his list and not three Z's.

Yes it's a little nerd-ragey. But it's honest about it

It's not the extra defence die but the decloaking barrel roll that makes it impractical for large ships, they halved the barrel roll dash can do for a reason.

Also ffg devs clearly care about the lore and know that ships under the cr-90s size can't generate enough power to cloak, ships the size of a nebulon b also can't cloak because they are too big, the phantom was a special case as it used a crystal so rare they cracked a planet appart to get enough to make a few thousand ships.

There is zero president in lore for a rebel cloak ship.

Could we not put more cloaking into the game? In all seriousness? I've had to 'apologize' to too many players and shoppers at the FLGS who didn't want to get involved in the game after doing some research and finding the Phantom. Others, to be sure thought, "Oooh! power gamer piece!" and went into the game only because it existed, to be fair. Not that that's better. And I've definitely watched two people leave the play group after bad experiences with Phantoms, and they were really chill fly casual guys too. No idea if they even still play at home or quit entirely. But I have a sinking feeling. Whether or not it's broken, or why, aside, that doesn't matter to this particular point, it has ruined the play experience for some. We had to gentleman-ban Phantoms from casual play. We had to gentleman-ban Outriders three weeks after gen-con. After release Outrider was forgiven it's trespass and back in. Phantom aint. It is still seen as an uncouth choice if you haven't asked your opponent to play a tourney list and warned them what your bringing, even with the Decimator around. And now you want to find a way to bring more in? Are you goddamn well kidding me?

Even at say "Illicit, 10pts, Cloak Device, Unique, Scum Only(redundant preventative), Your action bar gains the Cloak action. Whenever you perform the Cloak action, receive a stress token". It. Would. Be. Broken.

Any Scum HWK-290. Decloaking range two turret. Banks green as oft does anyway. Ion's you, then LOLs proceed. Not to mention it has an additional hit point. And good god those pilot abilities with cloaks. Still wouldn't break over forty points on their highest pilot Dace Bonearm.

Firespray. Decloaking with two Fire Arcs. Emon Azzamen can now place a proton bomb in any of EIGHTEEN places by going decloak, bomb, move. Twelve of those can be adjusted then within a gap of 2 base widths. Base Mandalorian Merc decloaks at PS5. Boba can decloak at PS10 and be better at the mechanic then it's mother faction ever dreamed and do that at a minuscule 50pts. Kath is basically a phantom on a large base that traded one agility for three hull and three shields. Also can equip Cannons, missiles, and if Slave 1 a torpedo. This would be the most terrifying ship class to put it on off hand I'd say.

Prince Xizor is then capable of going turn one cloak, turn two clear stress, turn three, decloak, boost, push for barrel roll, now move and clear stress off of 1/2/3-straight or 1-bank. And does this for a meager 48 points.

Aggresors. 5 agility while cloaked, on top of twice the hull and shields of the original Phantom. Can decloak into segnor loop, equip cannons, and bombs, and Adv sensors to remove stress after cloaking at the start of activation. Absolutely monstrous. Derp level.

Z-95. Was cute, now it haunts your dreams. Kaato ghosts up around you, steals your focus, shoots you with it. Like a punk. N'dru would have a field day with this thing. N'dru would just be an X-wing that cloaks at that point. A la Shadow squadron.

And that would be only with the first wave of scum. For fairness it would have to be a Mod so any one could take it. Then every tourney list would consist of a Cloaker as your attack element, and a Turret ship to hunt the other guys Cloaker as your defense element. (or two turrets for scum, they don't have a big one yet) That would be the worst most stagnant meta ever. Because the real talk that nobody is saying is that even the mighty Paul Heaver said "Phantoms? I'm bringing a PS9 turret. Eff that noise." I imagine if the rebels had a cloaker at the time we'd have seen that in his list and not three Z's.

Yes it's a little nerd-ragey. But it's honest about it

I actually agree with this, and I play empire and own the phantom. Lots of cloaking would not only propagate something that is a little over the top, or so it seems from a new players perspective, but it would also just make it universal across the tournament scene, and already when i sit down to play against a rebel player, or i read about a game, or i see or watch a video of a game, i already see all the same support taken, with little different between lists.

As a new player, and certainly not to hijack the thread, i do have some questions for you.

I don't understand why you have had to "apologize" for Whisper (although i freely admit that once i learn to use him, he probably will be stupid powerful). From a new players perspective, it seems after i have had my head beat in by Wedge, the Biggs with a shield upgrade and R2, Luke the nigh unkillable, Corran Horn - the double tapping assassian, outmanuvered by z-95's with better piloting skill and harder to kill at one more piloting skill than a tie fighter at the same cost, 2b2x killer lists with heavy laser cannons on b-wings that shoot me down before i can get out of an arc, astromech droids that auto regen shields, and crew like c-3po, han, lando, chewie, and lets not even begin touching the YT1300 and YT2400 ships, as they are crazy good, especially Dash Rendar and Outrider, why do you feel you have to apologize for whisper of all things?

sure he is amazing, but as a newer player, it feels like this game is balanced towards the rebels. When speaking with a few friends (as again, i just started and am very new) they openly stated that if whisper didnt exist, the empire would have very little that could actually push enough damage through to stop most of the rebel builds. They also pointed out that there are a lot more functional builds for the Rebels than for the empire, with the empires archetypes being around the longest, meaning that they were built into the game, but development has done little to keep them on par.

Im truly not trying to be argumentative, and i agree with your post that there is little benefit from EVERYONE becoming cloak able, but i don't think you have to apologize for whisper, seems like there is a lot riding on his damage output.

The only way a stealth type upgrade could be made to be balanced would be to preserve the Phantom's uniqueness. Please keep in mind that in the Antebellum South where I was raised, "uniqueness" was just a different way to say "not Fly Casual fair without telling your opponent before he makes his list." Yep, we were fond of shortening things back then...

How about a cloak upgrade that simply adds +2 agility and prevents shooting while cloaked but doesn't add the insane after-Planning Phase maneuvers that make the Phantom so shenaniganacious?

Alternatively you could make it a Scum only Modification, so no Stygium Particle Accelerator or Advanced Cloaking Device shenanigans (although this makes SPA sad, since it doesn't say TIE Phantom only).

Last time I checked there is no limitING text on Stygium Particle Accelerater

And one thing is for sure. The way Stygium Particle Accelerator is a common modification that can be taken on anything,we will see more cloaking ships.

It has soft and hard counters but overall people will start obtaining comfort in playing against phantoms and whatever else that comes with cloaking.

I have noticed a trend in how FFG has solved meta issues and that is with dilloution. The more roughly equal yet different ships you add the more choices of ships to fly and ways to equip them.

Afterall, dilloution is the solution to pollution.