So... Hutts are brawn 3, likely agility 1, willpower 3 likely and others 2.

Have the ponderous quality (only able to spend one maneuver on movement) and likely a wound and strain of at least 12-14 at start. lus I bet discipline of one rank at start.

I'm not sure that is in line with how species have been done so far.

I don't have the books around to be certain, but when a characteristic is raised above the "2" baseline, another characteristic is typically lowered.

Depends on starting experience and if a higher attribute is offset by the ponderous quality. Hutts will be a lot slower than other characters.

So... Hutts are brawn 3, likely agility 1, willpower 3 likely and others 2.

Have the ponderous quality (only able to spend one maneuver on movement) and likely a wound and strain of at least 12-14 at start. lus I bet discipline of one rank at start.

I'm not sure that is in line with how species have been done so far.

I don't have the books around to be certain, but when a characteristic is raised above the "2" baseline, another characteristic is typically lowered.

Typically you are right. But the "Ponderous" hindrance may be detrimental enough to not need a second "1".

Also don't forget that both Hutts we have seen also have Awkward:

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/adversaries/adversary/903/

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/adversaries/adversary/779/

Which applies *3* setback to all Brawl, Melee, and Coordinations checks. So there's major off sets to a naturally high Brawn.

As much as I agree that they should be Sil2, neither of the existing Hutts are either.

The brawn is just to reflect their large pool of health to use, when you get as fat as someone like Jabbba your gm will likely apply setbacks and modify the difficulty of any brawn related checks.

I am not sure I get what you mean by this "large pool of health to use"... Care to elaborate?

Actually, this is not how the system has worked so far...

Sure, Brawn has influenced the wound treshold and soak to an extend but the wound treshold is comprised of a fixed number + brawn and could be made to be high or low with or without the need of making brawn high or low.

Twi'leks: 10+brawn

Wookies: 14+brawn

etc.

So if they really want to have a Hutt be "healthy" they could have easily just made them brawn 2 but have wound threshold be 14+ or 12+ or even 15+

Therefor my conclusion is that they are refering to them as strong characters (also read the stats and explanation for the Hutt npc in the CRB for more on that.)

Yeah, you're right. I suppose I'll settle on a Hutt Driver with a sweet sailing barge....Come sail away, come sail away....

But will the sail barge be named the Mezcal?

Actually, I think it would be called "Alexander von Humboldt" and they would serve Beer with a four letter name...

Yeah, you're right. I suppose I'll settle on a Hutt Driver with a sweet sailing barge....Come sail away, come sail away....

But will the sail barge be named the Mezcal?

Actually, I think it would be called "Alexander von Humboldt" and they would serve Beer with a four letter name...

We're not counting the possessive s?

I know that this is mild support as best for a Hutt being brawn but Jabba gave c-3po an off handed wack and knocked the goldenrod over and Jabba didn't even seem to be trying to hit him hard.

Actually, this is not how the system has worked so far...

Sure, Brawn has influenced the wound treshold and soak to an extend but the wound treshold is comprised of a fixed number + brawn and could be made to be high or low with or without the need of making brawn high or low.

Twi'leks: 10+brawn

Wookies: 14+brawn

etc.

So if they really want to have a Hutt be "healthy" they could have easily just made them brawn 2 but have wound threshold be 14+ or 12+ or even 15+

Therefor my conclusion is that they are refering to them as strong characters (also read the stats and explanation for the Hutt npc in the CRB for more on that.)

Yeah, but you aren't factoring in soak.

I know that this is mild support as best for a Hutt being brawn but Jabba gave c-3po an off handed wack and knocked the goldenrod over and Jabba didn't even seem to be trying to hit him hard.

Judging by the slimy green hand print Jabba left on C-3PO's chest, Jabba's choice of food, and the general appearance of the throne room, C-3PO could have slipped and just been made to look like a *****.

Actually, this is not how the system has worked so far...

Sure, Brawn has influenced the wound treshold and soak to an extend but the wound treshold is comprised of a fixed number + brawn and could be made to be high or low with or without the need of making brawn high or low.

Twi'leks: 10+brawn

Wookies: 14+brawn

etc.

So if they really want to have a Hutt be "healthy" they could have easily just made them brawn 2 but have wound threshold be 14+ or 12+ or even 15+

Therefor my conclusion is that they are refering to them as strong characters (also read the stats and explanation for the Hutt npc in the CRB for more on that.)

Yeah, but you aren't factoring in soak.

Actually, this is not how the system has worked so far...

Sure, Brawn has influenced the wound treshold and soak to an extend but the wound treshold is comprised of a fixed number + brawn and could be made to be high or low with or without the need of making brawn high or low.

Twi'leks: 10+brawn

Wookies: 14+brawn

etc.

So if they really want to have a Hutt be "healthy" they could have easily just made them brawn 2 but have wound threshold be 14+ or 12+ or even 15+

Therefor my conclusion is that they are refering to them as strong characters (also read the stats and explanation for the Hutt npc in the CRB for more on that.)

Yeah, but you aren't factoring in soak.

Sure I did, but I don't feel that 1 more point would indicate "health" as he put it. Anyway, I am now done with this discussion. FFG says 3 and I agree, some others don't and that is fine by me if someone wants to see a character weighing tons as a weakling then it is no skin off my nose. I guess they might consider whales, hippo's, walruses etc. as weaklings too... Hey, each and everyone of you is allowed their delusions as far as I am concerned.

I'm on neither side, but considering soak for most characters is between 2-5 with armor included, starting with a natural 3 is fairly significant and does increase their survivability. I was simply pointing out that soak is important to his point and you kinda brushed it aside.

Actually, I didn't. Soak has nothing to do with the "health" of a character (as he put it) so I didn't think it needed to be dealt with in much detail.

The brawn is just to reflect their large pool of health to use, when you get as fat as someone like Jabbba your gm will likely apply setbacks and modify the difficulty of any brawn related checks.

I am not sure I get what you mean by this "large pool of health to use"... Care to elaborate?

3 brawn makes a hutt pc fairly durable in terms of wound threshold and natural soak. It's not so they can do well in melee; it's so they won't have the life expectancy of a red shirt.

Actually, I didn't. Soak has nothing to do with the "health" of a character (as he put it) so I didn't think it needed to be dealt with in much detail.

Did you read his follow up to you? It seems like you are getting caught up on the fact he used the word "health". He lays it out pretty clearly there he was talking about the combination of soak and WT as it relates to their survivability, regardless of the definition or implication of the word "health".

You made a great point about WT. As you said, you don't need to inflate a species natural brawn to go big in that regard.

And thus my point was made… Right? I addressed the half of his post that I think was unreasonable, the other part he was just flat out right about so no need to talk about that. However I just don’t think that 1 point of soak really says anything interesting as being an enormous fat guy usually will add some soak.

It reminds me of Chris Rock talking about the Notorious B.I.G. assassination.

“The bullet had to hit another bullet that went in before…”

As said before, he can disagree all he wants this is a free countr… no wait… these are free boards.

The delivery date has been changed to Q1 2015. Arguing about Hutt Brawn has forced FFG's hand, it seems.

I know that this is mild support as best for a Hutt being brawn but Jabba gave c-3po an off handed wack and knocked the goldenrod over and Jabba didn't even seem to be trying to hit him hard.

Judging by the slimy green hand print Jabba left on C-3PO's chest, Jabba's choice of food, and the general appearance of the throne room, C-3PO could have slipped and just been made to look like a *****.

Yes that definitely could be the case, we've got no way of knowing. But I find it more plausible that if they wanted the comic relief of C-3po slipping on Jabba's leftovers they would have made it obvious, I mean why waste screen time on a joke that no one will get, and why destroy the dramatic tension of the scene by interjecting slap stick comedy?

But like I said that scene is mild support at best. But some other mild support. The EU states that it is nearly impossible to poison a hutt, and a higher brawn helps with that too.

We're talking about a being routinely jerking women slaves on a chain towards him and hitting droids with a backhand that sends them reeling. Brawn definitely is a characteristic that Jabba uses in the movies. In fact, he does almost nothing but feats of strength. I find it strange and a little disturbing that a character that is portrayed as so physical would be called a weakling - despite all the evidence to the contrary.

If anything a punch front a hutt would hurt from the shear amount of mass in their arms compared to a humanoid species. It's the opposite end of the martial arts spectrum with someone lean but incredibly agile like Bruce Lee being the other extreme

On one hand, high brawn reflects the bulky nature oh Hutts and give them high soak, more wounds and more melee damage, which I think is ok. On the other hand, high brawn also give them high Athletics and high melee and brawl skills. Imaging a Hutt climbing trees, jumping over a chasm or similar feats is difficult for me.

I guess they faced two approaches; set a high brawn to reflect the first and add penalties to reflect the second i.e. Awkward and Ponderous (see the NPC Hutt), or set a low Brawn to reflect the second and add bonus in Soak <ranks in Enduring> and Wounds <ranks in Grit> (and may be to melee damage) to reflect the first.

I guess it is a matter of choice, although I still think Cunning 3 and Willpower 3 fits better to flesh out a Hutt, but again I guess not all Hutts are cunning crime lords or insidious politicians.

Did Saga stated Hutts as PCs?

Did Saga stated Hutts as PCs?

Don't know about Saga, but West End gave them 2D/5D in Strength, which gives them a higher cap than what Humans get (2D/4D).

Saga Edition didn't do a "PC write-up" of Hutts, but they did include species modifiers in the GM section of the core rulebook.

They got a +2 to Strength, Constitution, and Intelligence, but a -6 to Dexterity, were Large size, had a speed of 2 squares (default for most species was 6), a bonus to resist Force powers that targeted their Will Defense, couldn't be tripped or knocked prone, and could roll twice on Perception checks and keep the better result.

Since the preview article has already confirmed that Hutts have Brawn 3, if using the Saga Edition write-up as a guideline (which I'm sure FFG didn't do), then I guess they would probably have two 3's (Brawn confirmed, possibly Willpower for the second), two 2's (Intellect and Cunning), and then two 1's (Agility and Presence). Or they could boost up Presence and simply not give Hutt PCs as much starting XP as most other species get, which is possible. They might also have a higher-than-normal starting Wound Threshold (12+Brawn) but lower Strain Threshold (9+Willpower) as they're physically more resilient (that extra layer of blubber does help) but a bit more prone to vices in spite of their bloated egos. I'd probably also give them a free skill rank in Discipline and Perception, and there's the already mentioned "ponderous" quality to cut down on how fast they can move about. Since these would be "younger" Hutts, they might skate in at the high end of Silhouette 1 (much as Wookiees do).

And unlike prior RPGs, they might also figure that Jabba's resistance to Luke's attempted mind trick was less of a species trait and more that Jabba was simply very strong-minded (high Discipline skill rank) so that Luke (who was probably Discipline 3 and at least Willpower 3) wound up losing the opposed check. After all, we saw Watto brush off Qui-Gon's use of a mind trick, and the Toydarian species write-up only has a higher starting Willpower compared to a Human to "account" for it.

After all, we saw Watto brush off Qui-Gon's use of a mind trick, and the Toydarian species write-up only has a higher starting Willpower compared to a Human to "account" for it.

Actually, this is a weird case, as in the fluff of FFG it is stated clearly that they are completely immune to any manipulations via the force, which is not translated in any ability.

Yeah, I am pretty much leaning towards following the fluff there actualy as it states "immune" which leaves no wiggelroom as far as I'm concerned....