There's more emotion in the first 10 mins of JJ's first Trek movie than there is in all of the original Star Trek movies combined with the exclusion of "Wrath of Khan". Honestly "Wrath of Khan" is the only truly good movie of the bunch, the rest we liked just because they were Star Trek in spite of what we were actually viewing. VI made good use of the universe, a rarity for a Trek movie, but it felt like the actors were phoning it in, and the traitor was totally predictable.

The Star Trek movies for the most part just flat out sucked. I say that as someone who has watched all of the shows except Enterprise.

Having said that I'm still disappointed with "Into Darkness" echoing the ending to "Wrath of Khan". The whole point of the reboot is to do your own stuff, so do your own stuff.

But all of that doesn't really matter. The new Trek movies were a reboot. JJ was SUPPOSED to change things up. That's what you do in a reboot. SW:TFA isn't a reboot, it's a direct sequel. Everything we've seen so far shows he is honoring the OT, more than Lucas ever did for that matter. So what reason is there to complain at this point?

My friend, VI, and First Contact beg to differ. I was hoping

that Kirk would stay dead, and we could have Star Trek The Search for Kirk (because they don't seem to understand what a colon is ) and complete the utter destruction of the new trilogy

I heard Shatner will be in this 3rd JJTrek movie as Kirk from the primary timeline. If thats true then

A) They will have to use that effect I mentioned before to make him look younger.

B) Kirk didnt die or was brought back to life (Shatner novels now Canon? XD )

C) Mirrior Universe Grand Admiral Kirk crossed over and back in time and wants blood.

Abrams isn't directing the 3rd Trek film.

Jim

Its still the JAJA Trek until this trilogy is given a better and flashy name than NEWTrek.

Just thought I should add that ep 7 did have a powerful emotional moment, Kirks death. What makes the scene more sad than it appears is because of Kirks proclamation in ep 5. He said even in times of danger hes not worried because his friends were with him. HE KNOWS when he dies he will be alone.

Thats exactly how he died with a stranger by his side, in a time he was not ment to be part of, on some backwater **** hole barren planet traped under destroyed metal structure.

Emotion wise the scene with Kirk dying blows away any emotinal scene made in JAJATrek They just dont seem investable enough to have any sympathy for. Heck the main enemy leader of Galaxy Quest feels like a better enemy than Nero from the first JAJATrek. Khan was an improvement but not enough to make up for crazy / un-entertaning plot story development.

You knew he wouldn't die because they brought the tribble back to life earlier in the film, and they didn't earn the scene between Spock and Kirk, in wrath of Khan you saw the end of a friendship that had spanned three seasons of star trek and decades of time, into darkness they'd known each other maybe a few years and so it lacked any emotional impact.

All it did was make fans angry.

While I don't like the split wing look of the new X-wing "II", I can understand that JJ was tipping his hat to Ralqph McQuarrie and finally getting his original version on the screen.

All it did was make fans angry.

Didn't make me angry... Or don't I qualify as a fan?

JJ clearly wanted to remake Khan, so the scream at the end was completely fitting in my mind, because it was part of the original story, so it belonged in this one.

You knew he wouldn't die because they brought the tribble back to life earlier in the film, and they didn't earn the scene between Spock and Kirk, in wrath of Khan you saw the end of a friendship that had spanned three seasons of star trek and decades of time, into darkness they'd known each other maybe a few years and so it lacked any emotional impact.

All it did was make fans angry.

Not this fan. I thought it was an interesting twist.

One thing that I dislike about SF fandom is the assumption that a few loud voices speak for the majority. If you, your three friends, and 20 posters on a forum dislike Movie X or Show Y, then it must be bad, and the majority of fans agree. Of course, that ignores the (possibly vast) numbers of people who don't bother to post on fora. It's totally fine to not like a show. After all, not every series or movie will appeal to all audiences.

On the plus side, Orci just got fired. So, may have to wait a bit for a new movie, but based on them going for Edgar Wright, I think the third one will be better.

You knew he wouldn't die because they brought the tribble back to life earlier in the film, and they didn't earn the scene between Spock and Kirk, in wrath of Khan you saw the end of a friendship that had spanned three seasons of star trek and decades of time, into darkness they'd known each other maybe a few years and so it lacked any emotional impact.

All it did was make fans angry.

Not this fan. I thought it was an interesting twist.

One thing that I dislike about SF fandom is the assumption that a few loud voices speak for the majority. If you, your three friends, and 20 posters on a forum dislike Movie X or Show Y, then it must be bad, and the majority of fans agree. Of course, that ignores the (possibly vast) numbers of people who don't bother to post on fora. It's totally fine to not like a show. After all, not every series or movie will appeal to all audiences.

My friends who are not star trek fans liked the movie largely because they are ignorant regarding trek only having seen a few of the old films.

I was the one who was spitting feathers, I grew up on trek and those films insulted me.

Just thought I should add that ep 7 did have a powerful emotional moment, Kirks death. What makes the scene more sad than it appears is because of Kirks proclamation in ep 5. He said even in times of danger hes not worried because his friends were with him. HE KNOWS when he dies he will be alone.

Thats exactly how he died with a stranger by his side, in a time he was not ment to be part of, on some backwater **** hole barren planet traped under destroyed metal structure.

Emotion wise the scene with Kirk dying blows away any emotinal scene made in JAJATrek They just dont seem investable enough to have any sympathy for. Heck the main enemy leader of Galaxy Quest feels like a better enemy than Nero from the first JAJATrek. Khan was an improvement but not enough to make up for crazy / un-entertaning plot story development.

You knew he wouldn't die because they brought the tribble back to life earlier in the film, and they didn't earn the scene between Spock and Kirk, in wrath of Khan you saw the end of a friendship that had spanned three seasons of star trek and decades of time, into darkness they'd known each other maybe a few years and so it lacked any emotional impact.

All it did was make fans angry.

I think what makes it even more difficult to feel empathy towards these new Star Trekkers is that they dont feel like the "REAL" Kirk, Spock, Bones, ect. They share the same names but there played by diffrent people. I grew up with the Shatner Kirk, I watched him for about 10 + years before seeing him die. Since he is a loved character I grew up with for so long it did feel painful to see him die, it was like have a family member die.

Then you got JAJA Trek Kirk. IVE never seen the actor before in anything so he already feels like a stranger. Then you see he doesnt even have the same life as Kirk Alpha. He only shares a name, he practically a new character. That makes since because orignates from a diffrent universe. Its very hard to be emotionally invested in a new character, esp one that is replacing a very well known one.

I grew up on trek and those films insulted me.

I grew up on Trek and I thought they were pretty fun.

I didn't like Darkness, but that was more because Original Trek had ONE TRULY GOOD film, if the point was to reboot and start over with a new creative team and all, why take that ONE thing away, you know? (Plus, I just don't think they did as good a job with the story in the first place.)

But as movies, I enjoy watching them well enough.

My friends who are not star trek fans liked the movie largely because they are ignorant regarding trek only having seen a few of the old films.

I was the one who was spitting feathers, I grew up on trek and those films insulted me.

So only true fans are allowed to like a Trek movie, because only true fans have the knowledge to know whether they're being insulted or not? That's ridiculous, as it assumes that only true fans would watch the films and that the quality of the story itself is irrelevant. Also, it assumes that fans of the original run and subsequent television shows would not like it at all, which is equally fallacious in its logic.

I *also* grew up on Trek, and it didn't insult me because it's perfectly obvious to me that it's an alternate universe and I already have 5 shows and ten movies from the old one to sate my need for "The one true Trek". I'm ready for a new series with a different take on the universe. There are still plenty of people who like the original continuity (which, by the way, stopped being a continuity at "Yesterday's Enterprise", or if you want to be really technical about it "Tomorrow is Yesterday"), so it's not like these new films have destroyed anything.

DAT!

Yea, I would like to see the starfighters from Episode VII included in the Miniatures game.

*Post that would not edit for some reason*

My friends who are not star trek fans liked the movie largely because they are ignorant regarding trek only having seen a few of the old films.

I was the one who was spitting feathers, I grew up on trek and those films insulted me.

So only true fans are allowed to like a Trek movie, because only true fans have the knowledge to know whether they're being insulted or not? That's ridiculous, as it assumes that only true fans would watch the films and that the quality of the story itself is irrelevant. Also, it assumes that fans of the original run and subsequent television shows would not like it at all, which is equally fallacious in its logic.

I *also* grew up on Trek, and it didn't insult me because it's perfectly obvious to me that it's an alternate universe and I already have 5 shows and ten movies from the old one to sate my need for "The one true Trek". I'm ready for a new series with a different take on the universe. There are still plenty of people who like the original continuity (which, by the way, stopped being a continuity at "Yesterday's Enterprise", or if you want to be really technical about it "Tomorrow is Yesterday"), so it's not like these new films have destroyed anything.

Always the voice of reason, Falsehood.

I grew up on trek and those films insulted me.

I grew up on Trek and I thought they were pretty fun.

I didn't like Darkness, but that was more because Original Trek had ONE TRULY GOOD film, if the point was to reboot and start over with a new creative team and all, why take that ONE thing away, you know? (Plus, I just don't think they did as good a job with the story in the first place.)

But as movies, I enjoy watching them well enough.

It's not a reboot though, a reboot would of had nothing linking it to the original such as having Leonard nimoy show up or mentioning characters from main continuity series.

What this is is an alternate timeline, but it's one that makes no sense because two incidents of time travel would not suddenly give Vulcan a moon where none existed before, or set engine technology back hundreds of years or alter phasers from beam weapons to laser cannons.

It's a mess of plot holes and bad acting.

My friends who are not star trek fans liked the movie largely because they are ignorant regarding trek only having seen a few of the old films.

I was the one who was spitting feathers, I grew up on trek and those films insulted me.

So only true fans are allowed to like a Trek movie, because only true fans have the knowledge to know whether they're being insulted or not? That's ridiculous, as it assumes that only true fans would watch the films and that the quality of the story itself is irrelevant. Also, it assumes that fans of the original run and subsequent television shows would not like it at all, which is equally fallacious in its logic.

I *also* grew up on Trek, and it didn't insult me because it's perfectly obvious to me that it's an alternate universe and I already have 5 shows and ten movies from the old one to sate my need for "The one true Trek". I'm ready for a new series with a different take on the universe. There are still plenty of people who like the original continuity (which, by the way, stopped being a continuity at "Yesterday's Enterprise", or if you want to be really technical about it "Tomorrow is Yesterday"), so it's not like these new films have destroyed anything.

At no point have I employed the no true Scotsman fallacy don't try and make it look like I did, but it's very clear there's a split between hard core and casual fans on this.

The fact Spock went back into his own time line means it's not an alternate universe but an alternate time line that overwrites the original, this is not a split from the original events due to choice it's overwriting them.

And the fact even paramount is largely ignoring jar jars film's is telling, star trek online ignores it completely and even retcons the explosion giving it a cause that makes some sense.

No one that's willing to accept a super nova 150 light years away being an instant threat to an entire empire has any right to claim reason is on their side, the romulons had 150 years to evacuate their world there would of been no panicked rush by Spock to stop it, the very premise of the film is ridiculous.

Star trek is science fiction not science fantasy and should not be using things like a cold fusion bomb to stop a volcano, only the scientifically ignorant could accept that.

Both films are full of major plot holes and incorrect science, if they had been anything else but star trek you could dismiss them as fun popcorn movies, but given they've chosen the franchise they should at the very least try to continue using genuine science as inspiration instead of just writing any crap they like and relying on the audience being too stupid to know better.

People getting bent out of shape about new films simultaneously amuses and frustrates me.

RoboCop had a reboot. Terminator is basically getting one. I've seen the same sort of comments for both.

Just because new versions or timelines are being created doesn't mean someone is coming into your house to burn our DVDs of the old ones. They're still there, and perfectly valid. So if you don't like the new version.....ignore it. Sit down contentedly with what you like and enjoy it whilst not supporting the version you don't want. Easy peasy.

I'm a huge Batman film, and between Keaton and Bale have had what I consider definite Batman. If Affleck turns out to be awesome then that's great! But if he's rubbish I'll just ignore it and roll with the older films.

If it was something more obscure and the one chance at it getting made was butchered (like if you'd only had Stallone Dredd) I could understand. But these big franchises are cyclical, and there will always be more. Some you'll like and some you won't. There will be decent Transformers films one day!

There will be decent Transformers films one day!

There already was! The first one!

There will be decent Transformers films one day!

There already was! The first one!

I certainly hope you mean the animated one from the eighties with the killer soundtrack.

There will be decent Transformers films one day!

There already was! The first one!

I certainly hope you mean the animated one from the eighties with the killer soundtrack.

You got the touch

You got the power!

I certainly hope you mean the animated one from the eighties with the killer soundtrack.

That is one of the better soundtracks for a movie.

There will be decent Transformers films one day!

There already was! The first one!

Transformers the movie certainly was a classic i went to see that with my dad i cried when the decepticons attacked the shuttle and killed ironhide i loved that red minibus above all others.

And the michael bay films came along and just sullied my child hood,

And the michael bay films came along and just sullied my child hood,

Fell asleep during the first BayFormers movie. It literally put me to sleep. Haven't watched the rest.

And the michael bay films came along and just sullied my child hood,

Fell asleep during the first BayFormers movie. It literally put me to sleep. Haven't watched the rest.

Don't bother. The first film was OK but all the clues were there that it was leading down a bad path.

I was burnt twice by the production team promising more the next time.

The 4th tempted me with Dinobots. But I held off and watched it later through 'less conventional' means. I'm glad they didn't get any more of my money. They completely screwed it.

Just think of the michael bay transformers as the Go-Bots, it will hurt less because the go-bots always sucked.