Hopefully Sisters won't be Inquisitors Handbook levels and more...I forget the name, but FFGs iteration of them

Space mages?

But I don't think you'd have to fear anything in that regard - from what I've heard about the NPCs already in the game, the studio is committed to its interpretation as presented in DH1 Blood of Martyrs.

I couldn't comment on them being Space Mages, but I played with one and I actually got to do stuff instead of being the baggage as it was with IH. Faith Powers are cool as hell anyway!

I couldn't comment on them being Space Mages, but I played with one and I actually got to do stuff instead of being the baggage as it was with IH. Faith Powers are cool as hell anyway!

Matter of preferences ... but if you liked that, then I'd suspect this would be right up your alley. I recall it being mentioned that the SoB "Reinforcements" character in the core rulebook use similar Faith Powers, so it would make sense for the supplement to expand on that as a permanently playable option.

I think that at least around here, this interpretation also has more fans, too.

And I'd love Cell Directives. I love the idea of Cell Directives and I really hope that they'll be doing them for DH2, it could be really interesting. If they start with them already in this book, it can be one of those recurring features that I'd really appreciate.

I always thought Cell Directives were merely a way to expand the advancement options available to characters- which were previously limited to tables within that character's career. I'm not sure if they would be useful anymore, aside from potentially giving the cell an aptitude and perhaps another special rule.

And I'd love Cell Directives. I love the idea of Cell Directives and I really hope that they'll be doing them for DH2, it could be really interesting. If they start with them already in this book, it can be one of those recurring features that I'd really appreciate.

I always thought Cell Directives were merely a way to expand the advancement options available to characters- which were previously limited to tables within that character's career. I'm not sure if they would be useful anymore, aside from potentially giving the cell an aptitude and perhaps another special rule.

On paper that's pretty much spot on yeah, but I enjoyed the theme of it moreso. Less "the people the Inquisitor had on hand" and more "This themed Cell of operatives". If they do make a comeback I hope FFG can think of some nifty rules to accompany it.

Well, you can't really blame FFG for only releasing rules supplements, because those are really the only things that sale. Someone in another thread complained about having to buy an adventure in order to get rules for extra homeworlds, which is EXACTLY what FFG wants. If people want lore, there are plenty of sources other than rpg books. Profit margins are so small that FFG can't really afford to put out a super nice production quality book of just lore that (relatively) no one will buy. This has been the successful business model for decades: sell a basic ruleset and setting, then well later books with rules on how to play different parts of the setting.

If this was a good business model that worked for Black Crusade, they would've done the same for Only War. But they didn't.I get that Rules Supplements sell better, but if you want a line to live, you need other things too.

They DID do the same for Only War. The only things out for it are adventures and rule supplements. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by rules supplements?

You did - I'm raising the point that they published nothing but rules supplements for Black Crusade (except for a single adventure) and you say that they only things out for Only War are adventures and rules supplements.

I don't think I've seen anything other than those two things published for any of the settings. What did you think I was talking about?

Edit: Actually, there's bestiaries too, which I guess we should count separately.

So far Only War is fitting a pretty standard mold; Core Ruleset, GM Kit, Adventure, Rules Supplement, Bestiary, Rules Supplement, Adventure. Meanwhile, Black Crusade got Cure Ruleset, GM Kit, Adventure, Rules Supplement, Rules Supplement, Rules Supplement, (Bad) Rules Supplement.

If they really thought that is the best thing ever, they'd just continue doing rules supplements and nothing else for Only War, but they didn't. And this discussion just reminded me of the fact that Black Crusade never got a proper bestiary, either... D:

Huh, I never knew that BC only ever put out a single adventure. I think an argument can be made that part of its failure may be that the setting for it is not the most popular one, and apparently is hard to write good adventures for.

And I'd love Cell Directives. I love the idea of Cell Directives and I really hope that they'll be doing them for DH2, it could be really interesting. If they start with them already in this book, it can be one of those recurring features that I'd really appreciate.

I always thought Cell Directives were merely a way to expand the advancement options available to characters- which were previously limited to tables within that character's career. I'm not sure if they would be useful anymore, aside from potentially giving the cell an aptitude and perhaps another special rule.

Well, it depends on what you want to define as "useful". Cell Directives could be useful the same way Elite Advancement Packages are, or really just the same way any other advancements or character options are.

Personally, for Cell Directives in DH2, I would give a number of small bonuses to things, maybe a unique talent or two, or something along those lines.

There's a lot you can do with it, and a good way to let everyone in the group move gently together in a cohesive direction.

Huh, I never knew that BC only ever put out a single adventure. I think an argument can be made that part of its failure may be that the setting for it is not the most popular one, and apparently is hard to write good adventures for.

I don't really think that's the case.

From what I've read, my own opinion, and those of my group, I think it simly boils down to the fact that most people don't like playing as the "bad" guys.

Huh, I never knew that BC only ever put out a single adventure. I think an argument can be made that part of its failure may be that the setting for it is not the most popular one, and apparently is hard to write good adventures for.

I don't really think that's the case.

From what I've read, my own opinion, and those of my group, I think it simly boils down to the fact that most people don't like playing as the "bad" guys.

Or when they do they think its a license to act like a ******* moron! Full chaotic stupid party all of them. Dead by the end of session 1. Couldn't handle the freedom and... chaos. I find it fitting that the Chaos gods only choose the worthy and none of them proved even worth a grain of salt.

I would like to see a Tau/and or Aliens book. It's a playable setting since they aren't so hard to roleplay.

Huh, I never knew that BC only ever put out a single adventure. I think an argument can be made that part of its failure may be that the setting for it is not the most popular one, and apparently is hard to write good adventures for.

I don't really think that's the case.

From what I've read, my own opinion, and those of my group, I think it simly boils down to the fact that most people don't like playing as the "bad" guys.

That explains why Black Crusade isn't the most popular line, but Nimsim did address that and said that the setting is not the most popular one. But it doesn't explain why they decided to churn out Rules Supplements and nothing else (to the point where they even felt that they had to force a fifth Rules Supplement into the fourth and call it a day).

Black Crusade is a nice ruleset and it's fun to play, but there's no doubt that a lot of people don't see why it'd be fun to play the "bad" guys. I've had prospective players come with the most ridiculous notions when it comes to Black Crusade, which to me mostly cements my belief that it's mostly poorly represented, with Chaos becoming increasingly grimderp over time (whereas I enjoy playing on the lighter aspects of Chaos, mixed in with the nihilistic, primordial insanity and nothingness that is the essence of Chaos).

However, despite this, there's a lot of inconsistencies going on in Black Crusade. On the issue of Adventures, there's a whole section on Compacts in the Core Rulebook, but not a single Adventure published explains how this is supposed to work together. Black Crusade also seems to consistently mix up what relative power level it's supposed to be playing at. The free starting adventure leaves the players destitute and dropped out of time and place, but everything in the ruleset is so abstract that it's hard to reconcile. Dark Heresy 2 seems to do much the same thing, with presenting the players as Acolytes, yet including Inquisitor as a Elite Advancement Package from the get-go, like some default assumption to be aspired for. You're apparently supposed to be poor, yet everything is again so abstracted that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It's.. jarring, and odd, and it makes it hard to play things by the rules, without coming up with far-fetched rationalizations.

I think it's hard to write adventures for, because Black Crusade itself isn't really sure where it's going, so how should someone that is writing an adventure know? It could've been amazing, but Black Crusade seems to largely lack focus, I think.

The same could be said about Rogue Trader.

Both of them tend to do best either as one-shot sessions or as large sandbox campaigns.

The regular campaign structures simply won't work for them and that is where the GM comes in - to bring focus, help guide the story (not railroad) and to open up the setting for the players by providing them with lots of choices, opportunities along the way.

Our BC campaign evolved from a Chaos Marine stranded on a wasteland planet, to the subjugation of the Ragged Helix, brokering of peace on Hellwhisper, training witches on Kymerus, making pacts with daemonic entities, recovering a lost chaos vessel, assembling a host of allies, and a fleet etc. etc.

This was mostly Compact driven, but not at first - because the players either kept forgetting to make them or didn't know 100% how they worked. We talked a bit about it and after the first successful small Compact, it escalated wildly into the two page contract that they have today.

Now, they are almost ready to launch their black crusade against a very specific part of the Imperium they know and loathe.

The first planet they started on and its surrounding system.

Full circle.

Count me in on being very excited about this supplement coming out.I like the direction FFG is going with this line.Looking forward to the seeing how they present the sister's.Also,I'm really hoping for a xenos book sometime early/mid next year!

I think Black crusade was always a bit of a niche product for many of the reasons already noted. It does well in some circles but is limited in it's broader appeal. I use it primarily for creating "master" NPC's. Few players I've run into can stick with it without descending into anarchy! There are a few, but not many. This isn't really a failure so much as a limited market. I also believe ffg knew this going in. That's probably why they didn't concentrate on it as much.

I think Black crusade was always a bit of a niche product for many of the reasons already noted. It does well in some circles but is limited in it's broader appeal. I use it primarily for creating "master" NPC's. Few players I've run into can stick with it without descending into anarchy! There are a few, but not many. This isn't really a failure so much as a limited market. I also believe ffg knew this going in. That's probably why they didn't concentrate on it as much.

A bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, then, I'd say.

Indeed!

I use BC as material for DH frankly, never intended on playing it so the 4 rule supplements were just what I wanted.

Interesting. Over here, Black Crusade is the most popular 40kRPG setting not counting our homebrew.

Interesting. Over here, Black Crusade is the most popular 40kRPG setting not counting our homebrew.

I use BC as material for DH frankly, never intended on playing it so the 4 rule supplements were just what I wanted.

I originally purchased the PDF's for it for the same reason, though I've found the system to be quite to my liking. I might run it as a one-off for my girlfriend's little sister's other group, who are apparently quite a bunch of murderhobos.

Interesting. Over here, Black Crusade is the most popular 40kRPG setting not counting our homebrew.

All threads appears to be derailing today, so I might as well ask: What's your homebrew?

It is a post-cyberpunk setting put into the 40k universe. Pretty much a quasi-xeno protectorate of the Imperium (kinda like the Jokaero, just much bigger) that has a very heavily emphasized grimbright theme rather than a grimdark one. Her you have advanced technology everywhere, psychic enlightenment, safe&fast warp travel, lots of personal freedom, and stuff that keeps the uglies of the galaxy in check. On the downside, everyone is mega-competitive, people can (and will) screw you up in very interesting ways, ethics and morals are both considered overrated, and the guys in those shiny skyscrapers are often more fiendish than the four Chaos Gods combined.

As far as "grimderp" goes, our group took a long, good look at the tyranids. We then decided to save the galaxy from the nids, videotape how and send our new status as "heroes of humanity, champions of the milkyway and saviours of the universe" to imperial worlds, the inquisition and personally addressed to the high lords of Terra and any Eldar craftworld we knew.

This promises to be an entertaining "black crusade". I can taste the ultramarine tears already

Interesting. Over here, Black Crusade is the most popular 40kRPG setting not counting our homebrew.

All threads appears to be derailing today, so I might as well ask: What's your homebrew?

It is a post-cyberpunk setting put into the 40k universe. Pretty much a quasi-xeno protectorate of the Imperium (kinda like the Jokaero, just much bigger) that has a very heavily emphasized grimbright theme rather than a grimdark one. Her you have advanced technology everywhere, psychic enlightenment, safe&fast warp travel, lots of personal freedom, and stuff that keeps the uglies of the galaxy in check. On the downside, everyone is mega-competitive, people can (and will) screw you up in very interesting ways, ethics and morals are both considered overrated, and the guys in those shiny skyscrapers are often more fiendish than the four Chaos Gods combined.

To be fair Fgdsfg, the Black Crusade tomes weren't just pure rules supplements, they are more like a big mix of everything. They had rules yes, but they also had a bestiary focused on that one God/planet, as well as a GM Adventure in the back. Compare this with the other lines where they release books that focus almost exclusively on one specific aspect (Adventure OR Rules OR Monsters). I actually really liked this method because it meant everybody got a little something when buying a book. My only real gripe was that as a GM it was easier for players to metagame by having a sneaky look in the back of the book.

Anyway, it's such a shame Black Crusade is the least popular line. It's my favourite just for the freedom it provides, even if it has a bad habit of bringing out the snowflake concepts in force. I always find it weird that people go "Uw, bad guys" but they're more than happy to play psychopathic half-insane Acolytes/Space Marines/Guardsmen who'll come up with new and disturbing ways to torture suspected heretics.

TBH, the main barrier for us to get people to try BC has been the advancement system and how the gods are handled. WHFRP in space honestly works better.

Which edition of WHFRP?

We use second, because it's extremely easy to translate back and forth. 3rd should work, too, though, given it's got a sci-fi version out in form of EOTE if I'm told correctly (haven't played EOTE, mind. Could be wrong). I haven't played/read WHFRP first edition either, so can't comment.