So I recently picked up a bunch of the FFG books that contain Sisters of Battle NPCs, including Hospitaliers, a Canoness, Battle Sisters, Seraphim and Retributors/Celestians, and a Palatine.
So comparing all this lot to Blood of Martyrs, and Heresy Begets Retribution, I think I have some ideas to do a Sisters of Battle ruleset. There's probably enough variety in there from the guard to justify a small one.
What do you guys think? Is this something you want to see, and think there would be sufficient material for me to crack on with?
Sisters of Battle
I'm all for bringing past mechanics into the modern era, especially the Sisters of Battle who haven't been seen since DH1 (to my knowledge). Would love to see what kind of stuff you come up with.
Go right ahead. I propose keeping all the space magic out of it, though.
Sisters have appeared as NPCs in both Deathwatch and Black Crusade, but I'm happy to have a crack at playable OW versions.
As I understand it, the Faith mechanic for the Sisters has kind of always been a really big thing for them. Why remove it?
Some people just don't like the Idea of pure faith in the game. Even though some variant of it is actually part of their TT codex iirc. Anyway, my Ideas
Sororitas would be specialists similar to Stormtroopers (But aruably more awesome!)
I've always though Sororitas belonged at more of a RT power lvl (Approx. 5000xp)
No comrades like Stormtroopers (Like Astartes, there are no "lesser" Battle sisters!)
Core equipment:
Light powered armor
Bolter rifle
Combat knife
Replace Infantryman's primer with Holy book
Other standard gear as per regiment.
Sisters have appeared as NPCs in both Deathwatch and Black Crusade, but I'm happy to have a crack at playable OW versions.
As I understand it, the Faith mechanic for the Sisters has kind of always been a really big thing for them. Why remove it?
It's not so much a Faith mechanic as the blatant space magic they display in Dark Heresy, they easily become more spellcasters and magicians than anything else.
The Acts of Faith are "miracles" generated by incredible zeal shared by mass amounts of religious fanatics, and are (or should be) subtle effects that can be mistaken for miracles from an in-universe point of view.
As described in Dark Heresy (Blood of Martyrs.. If memory serves?) they are little more than psyker effects and in truth there is little to suggest that they'd be received by the surrounding onlookers as anything else.
Search Lynata's posts on the issue.
I was going to say consult Lyn, he/she is essentially the resident SoB expert. If you really want to try a ruleset then I'd definitely work with them, they?, schlem? Genders are weird when you don't explicitly know them.
I wish you the best on this, and hope that you can come up with something rather cool. I've often thought of hammering out an "Adepta Sororitas" regiment, but they can be tricky, and some decisions can come up:
- Will they have Pure Faith, or perhaps some "Faith" mechanic? A lot of this can stem from what you think of the material FFG and GW have fed us, over the years. What is the Emperor? Is He JUST a spirit, barely there? Is He hateful of what His Imperium has become? Might He actually have become a form of Ruinous Power? You might see Him now as little different than Slaanesh, or Tzeentch; a mighty essence, part of the warp, now fueled by the faith of billions, giving Him real powers, like them, but with His singular attention held, so His scope is somewhat less. This being could place the "Mark of Imperium" on a faithful, giving them powers, like the others do, or you might feel more there's nothing to that, and He's all what others believe, with a little bit of "just lights the Astronomicon" with it. If that's the case, then maybe there are no SoB faith powers, or they are just unknowingly psykers, though there are tests for that. Or perhaps those "miracles" are more just stories that grew in the tellings, like Heracles, and the Sororitas allow them because people need something to believe in, and they actually have NO "special powers". If they do have powers, will they be more "use sparingly", or will they be spammable, like psyker powers, and how/why?
- What are your Sisters wearing? If you go by the codex, they would need light or regular Power Armor, especially Seraphim, with their jet packs, but this gives numerous hurdles. It's supposedly rare, and has a finite power source, plus helps make some weapons weaker. Shield of Humanity did us the blessed courtesy of finally remembering that Tech-Priests, at least in codex, wear powered armor, and they have access to it, with a special dispensation rule, as well as a built-in power supply. Sisters might not have all, or any of these things. Will they bear more mundane gear, such as quality carapace armor, have access to some PA, perhaps also with the availability bonus, but also requiring a successful check, rather than starting with it? Will Power Armor be OP? Will its batteries be a bigger liability than the Size boost? I'd say SoB should have Power Armor, but also that such a thing can be a particular annoyance to weasel into the game, especially when others are Guardsmen, rather than Astartes. Others will have other opinions. If they are just all-female Guardsmen with a penchant for oratory and burning heretics, they might not really be Sisters of Battle, at least to some.
Okay, I've prattled enough, and repeated some stuff others have already said, and which we all already knew. It'll take some decision-making, on your part, to be sure, after you decide what your view of the Adepta Sororitas, and their Sisters of Battle, look like, but I look forward to seeing what you might fabricate. Best of luck.
Well then, I'll certainly be eager to see when/if they weigh in on this thread what their thoughts are.
I took the liberty of brainstorming with my group on some potential specialisms and thus far we have the current listing;
Basic;
Battle Sister
Dominion
Retributor
Seraphim
Operator
Superior
Support
Hospitalier
Repentia
Ministorum Priest
Crusader
Death-Cult Assassin
Hereticus Acolyte
Penitent Witch
Advanced
Incinerant Priest
Pracentor of Penance
Rector Erudite
Prelate-At-Arms
Palatine
After doing some digging I also considered the inclusion of the Penitent Witch as a Support option.
Priest stuff would, of course, all be accomplished using standard Only War materials.
Comrades as standard would possibly come in three forms. Other Battle Sisters, Frateris Militia or, potentially, Sisters Militant novices, who have yet to "earn their helmet", which would contribute to the notion of them dying far more easily when subjected to fire, and being protected by their more experienced Sisters.
If I am to include Acts of Faith, I think a Faith aptitude, to be used in tandem with Willpower, would be an appropriate start. Assigning Faith powers various XP costs similar to Psychic Powers, and likely invoke various Willpower and Fellowship tests to both encourage use of those stats and balance things about a bit, though I would maybe retroactively give Clerical specialisations the Faith aptitude.
Continuing feedback of thoughts and ideas welcome.
I wish you the best on this, and hope that you can come up with something rather cool. I've often thought of hammering out an "Adepta Sororitas" regiment, but they can be tricky, and some decisions can come up:
- Will they have Pure Faith, or perhaps some "Faith" mechanic? A lot of this can stem from what you think of the material FFG and GW have fed us, over the years. What is the Emperor? Is He JUST a spirit, barely there? Is He hateful of what His Imperium has become? Might He actually have become a form of Ruinous Power? You might see Him now as little different than Slaanesh, or Tzeentch; a mighty essence, part of the warp, now fueled by the faith of billions, giving Him real powers, like them, but with His singular attention held, so His scope is somewhat less. This being could place the "Mark of Imperium" on a faithful, giving them powers, like the others do, or you might feel more there's nothing to that, and He's all what others believe, with a little bit of "just lights the Astronomicon" with it. If that's the case, then maybe there are no SoB faith powers, or they are just unknowingly psykers, though there are tests for that. Or perhaps those "miracles" are more just stories that grew in the tellings, like Heracles, and the Sororitas allow them because people need something to believe in, and they actually have NO "special powers". If they do have powers, will they be more "use sparingly", or will they be spammable, like psyker powers, and how/why?
- What are your Sisters wearing? If you go by the codex, they would need light or regular Power Armor, especially Seraphim, with their jet packs, but this gives numerous hurdles. It's supposedly rare, and has a finite power source, plus helps make some weapons weaker. Shield of Humanity did us the blessed courtesy of finally remembering that Tech-Priests, at least in codex, wear powered armor, and they have access to it, with a special dispensation rule, as well as a built-in power supply. Sisters might not have all, or any of these things. Will they bear more mundane gear, such as quality carapace armor, have access to some PA, perhaps also with the availability bonus, but also requiring a successful check, rather than starting with it? Will Power Armor be OP? Will its batteries be a bigger liability than the Size boost? I'd say SoB should have Power Armor, but also that such a thing can be a particular annoyance to weasel into the game, especially when others are Guardsmen, rather than Astartes. Others will have other opinions. If they are just all-female Guardsmen with a penchant for oratory and burning heretics, they might not really be Sisters of Battle, at least to some.
Okay, I've prattled enough, and repeated some stuff others have already said, and which we all already knew. It'll take some decision-making, on your part, to be sure, after you decide what your view of the Adepta Sororitas, and their Sisters of Battle, look like, but I look forward to seeing what you might fabricate. Best of luck.
Faith Powers are ... complicated, no matter how you look at them, but they're distinct from psyker powers - in theory, anyone with (presumably) sufficient Faith could be the source/focus of a Faith effect. Except maybe nulls/pariahs, as they don't have a soul (supposedly). And psychic countermeasures have no effect on Faith effects.
As far as the Sororitas Power Armor goes ... they would presumably get their standard fusion power backpacks, providing effectively unlimited duration, instead of the limited charge capacitor banks that is more easily acquired.
This one is correct. Light power armour complete with fusion backpacks and sabbat pattern helmets with their inbuilt targeting array.
These are Battle Sisters, not female Guardsmen.
Sororitas pattern power armour, as added to one of the books, has the same power source as the Astartes variant and therefore lasts as long as it is properly maintained and undamaged.
Don't forget that the Sabbat helm also adds rebreather so it makes the suit fully vacuum sealed!
I wish you the best on this, and hope that you can come up with something rather cool. I've often thought of hammering out an "Adepta Sororitas" regiment, but they can be tricky, and some decisions can come up:
- Will they have Pure Faith, or perhaps some "Faith" mechanic? A lot of this can stem from what you think of the material FFG and GW have fed us, over the years. What is the Emperor? Is He JUST a spirit, barely there? Is He hateful of what His Imperium has become? Might He actually have become a form of Ruinous Power? You might see Him now as little different than Slaanesh, or Tzeentch; a mighty essence, part of the warp, now fueled by the faith of billions, giving Him real powers, like them, but with His singular attention held, so His scope is somewhat less. This being could place the "Mark of Imperium" on a faithful, giving them powers, like the others do, or you might feel more there's nothing to that, and He's all what others believe, with a little bit of "just lights the Astronomicon" with it. If that's the case, then maybe there are no SoB faith powers, or they are just unknowingly psykers, though there are tests for that. Or perhaps those "miracles" are more just stories that grew in the tellings, like Heracles, and the Sororitas allow them because people need something to believe in, and they actually have NO "special powers". If they do have powers, will they be more "use sparingly", or will they be spammable, like psyker powers, and how/why?
- What are your Sisters wearing? If you go by the codex, they would need light or regular Power Armor, especially Seraphim, with their jet packs, but this gives numerous hurdles. It's supposedly rare, and has a finite power source, plus helps make some weapons weaker. Shield of Humanity did us the blessed courtesy of finally remembering that Tech-Priests, at least in codex, wear powered armor, and they have access to it, with a special dispensation rule, as well as a built-in power supply. Sisters might not have all, or any of these things. Will they bear more mundane gear, such as quality carapace armor, have access to some PA, perhaps also with the availability bonus, but also requiring a successful check, rather than starting with it? Will Power Armor be OP? Will its batteries be a bigger liability than the Size boost? I'd say SoB should have Power Armor, but also that such a thing can be a particular annoyance to weasel into the game, especially when others are Guardsmen, rather than Astartes. Others will have other opinions. If they are just all-female Guardsmen with a penchant for oratory and burning heretics, they might not really be Sisters of Battle, at least to some.
Okay, I've prattled enough, and repeated some stuff others have already said, and which we all already knew. It'll take some decision-making, on your part, to be sure, after you decide what your view of the Adepta Sororitas, and their Sisters of Battle, look like, but I look forward to seeing what you might fabricate. Best of luck.
Faith Powers are ... complicated, no matter how you look at them, but they're distinct from psyker powers - in theory, anyone with (presumably) sufficient Faith could be the source/focus of a Faith effect. Except maybe nulls/pariahs, as they don't have a soul (supposedly). And psychic countermeasures have no effect on Faith effects.
As far as the Sororitas Power Armor goes ... they would presumably get their standard fusion power backpacks, providing effectively unlimited duration, instead of the limited charge capacitor banks that is more easily acquired.
Yeah, I just wanted to address the points, as they CAN be sticklers if you are trying for a more "Sororitas in Militarum", rather than a stand alone Battle Sisters that, for the most part, uses the same rules and format, if you will, but is planned to be at a higher power level, or such. As much as I like to think that Sororitas are JUST Human, they are Humans with nigh-Astartes quality gear, some very atypical, potent weapons, and priestly magic powers, some of the time, which can make them more of a Deathwatch tier, rather than a Guardsman tier, while they go kill rogue psykers and daemons that IG would need to use tanks against (not that such is a terrible idea; may He bless the Leman Russ
)
Their Acts are complicated, yep. No one is sure where they originate from, as "piety" is a shaky surface, especially with "real" magic, warp-borne terrors, and technological devices that can actually interact with such warp-crap. Mostly though, what I was saying there, even more than make sure you know what it's source is, as the GM, is deciding how often they can, and successfully do work. Miracles lose their luster when they become commonplace, and when one knows that they can easily do it, hubris also follows, but if they are "spend a Fate point" level things, they won't be as often, though then I hope they are powerful.
I know where their armor stands, but my babble there was if you want a Guard-analogue you call a Sister of Battle, or a more Marine-analogue, as even without their gene-seed modifications, a Faith-driven, PA-clad, jet pack-wearing Sister toting an inferno pistol is a terrifying idea, especially if her teammates have those with hand flamers, or even bolt pistols. I wasn't sure if the OP wanted "Sisters of Battle", or make a SoB regiment, or SoB-esque regiment to use IN Only War.
Yeah, I babbled again, sorry. Back in 2004, or so, the Sisters were one of my favorite cheesy little forces, and I really wish someone at GW would do them justice again, maybe even a REAL codex, and with balance; the same was a bit true in DH, and the other lines we never saw them in again. So yeah, whatever you are thinking of making, I'm looking forward to reading it.
I've often thought of hammering out an "Adepta Sororitas" regiment, but they can be tricky,
I REALLY misread that line...
The original SoB concept is indeed supposed to be miracles of faith and divine intervention. While that's not to say some of the powers are not in keeping, they would work rather well in actuality, they do need some toning down and need to maintain themselves as requiring the spending or indeed burning of fate. With your approval and if required I'd like to offer my assistance to your creation of rules and stats for them with a few experimental faith abilities perhaps more in keeping with the setting.
Edited by Calgor GrimGot Skype? I'd prefer to thresh things out in IMs if possible. Otherwise, input is welcomed and glad to see the community taking an interest.
Minus a few overplayed memes and tropes, I have always found the Sisters of Battle to be a very fun, and cool force, so I am also glad to see them getting some love. They aren't much supported by GW, who has mostly shot them to the point that many wondered if they were on the way out, even though a few things in their codex actually are good; makes me miss the days of Codex: Witch Hunters, even if that was 1/3 copy/paste from Daemon Hunters, but it had some cool stuff, and ability to patch some of its own gaps. FFG has been maybe about as nice to them, so yeah, seeing something cool done with them in this format would be a nice change. I, too, am glad to see some interest in this faction.
If people are wondering why I haven't gotten underway with this yet, I'm planning to finish my current project first.
When its ready I will make a true start on this, because I feel the other is very overdue.
See below to follow progress;
The original SoB concept is indeed supposed to be miracles of faith and divine intervention.
Not ... exactly. It was about the representation of supposed miracles of faith and divine intervention. One of the codices even included a line that flat out said "considered miraculous by the unschooled ".
The army concept draws partially from the legend of Jeanne d'Arc, up to the Sisters' homeworld being a reference to her birthplace. But this includes a certain ambiguity, just like whether Jeanne was truly a divine messenger or just a crazed zealot. Now, what would fit better into the setting of 40k? That is for the individual player to decide, as the IP has always relied heavily on interpretation. It's why Games Workshop's material on the subject has at best been suggestive, rather than saying "it is so".
And this approach is the explanation for why there are so many different interpretations among the fans on what Acts of Faiths "should" be. Though this is, of course, merely an example - there are
far
more topics where we can read different things out of the original material, let alone the licensed material that followed in its wake, created by people who had their own ideas on what everything means.
Just wanted to set this little bit of "history" straight (sort of). Carry on!
I'm personally of the mind that Acts of Faith are probably the work of the human gestalt. Not every Ork is a "Psyker", but every Ork has a psychic influence on the world around it through the power of their belief, Similarly, not every human is a manifesting Psyker, but the power of human belief influences the world around it.
The reason for Sisters of Battle being able to do it as a force? The convergence of numerous humans who all "believe" in what they're achieving, and the power behind it.
Am I right? Of course not. No one is.
What is definitely right, however? Acts of Faith are A Thing. They exist in the codices. You can use them on demand on the TT. I'll likely toy with them and impose greater limitations to prevent it becoming just another form of Psychic Power.
Also, I am of the opinion that if the Sisters of Battle are only human, and so are the priests/missionaries/confessors et cetera that often travel with them, that any human can achieve the use of Acts of Faith. Hence the proposal to introduce a Faith aptitude. That way, others could buy Faith powers, albeit at an exorbitant cost.
That said, I have no intention of forcing anyone to use it. So feel free to ignore Acts of Faith, or add an optional ruling that only people with the "Pure Faith" trait (Sisters) can use them or something. I don't really care. I'm just going to give you the options and tools. It's up to you how you use them.
The original SoB concept is indeed supposed to be miracles of faith and divine intervention.
Not ... exactly. It was about the representation of supposed miracles of faith and divine intervention. One of the codices even included a line that flat out said "considered miraculous by the unschooled ".
HERESY! It is all miracles and blessings of the divine Emperor himself! Where's a commissar when you need one? Jokes aside yes there is some debate about what is luck and just good fortune and I did indeed grasp the Joan of Arc reference with accusations of her being a witch.
In terms of actually applying faith powers, in theory any human is capable of being faithful to the Emperor but it takes a special kind of person to have it on the same level as the sisterhood. They are not just faithful, they are fanatically faithful to the point of martyrdom. An Imperial Guardsman is loyal to the God Emperor and may believe in him but when that guardsman comes face to face with a chaos space marine, that guard is likely to drop his weapon and retreat because many fear for their lives. What gives the sisters their edge is that more likely, they will not fear death because they are under the belief that their faith in the Emperor will protect them and that even in their deaths they will die for a good cause and will go toe to toe with that traitor from his divine light. It is faith on a different level on par with that of the Adeptus Astartes. Their faith gives them the strength of mind which allows them to stand toe to toe against some pretty nasty things while others would shrink and run.
I would say any powers needs a prerequisite personally of "Divine Faith" or a talent available for purchasing or some method of limiting it as some disciplines like a munitorium cleric should be able to get it. This also gives me a wonderful idea now of making Arch Confessor Kyrinov.
What gives the sisters their edge is that more likely, they will not fear death because they are under the belief that their faith in the Emperor will protect them and that even in their deaths they will die for a good cause and will go toe to toe with that traitor from his divine light.
Fanatical belief ... plus the discipline to focus it, and a very specific training program with martial arts unique to the Sisterhood, if we'd go by the original material.
That's why, personally, I would be okay with "Acts of Faith" being theoretically available to
any
zealot whose faith may reach similar heights - just not the exact same ones as the SoB get.
For example, in the real world, I would wager that most humans have hidden reserves in their body which only get tapped under very specific circumstances. Most people have probably heard stories of mothers lifting cars off their children, for example. These people didn't "learn" this anywhere. Yet the ability to ignore pain, something which we are capable of as well as proven in surgery under hypnosis, is something you need training and guidance to develop...
In 40k, the Black Templars are also fanatical believers in the God-Emperor, and have discipline and an ascetic lifestyle not too dissimilar from the Sisters of Battle. The result is a shared innate rejection of psychic powers, represented in the TT by a +1 bonus to Deny The Witch rolls.
But again, that's just my take on things, as shaped by the GW material I've read - in particularly that their true nature is misinterpreted by superstitious people (3E codex), and that they have nothing to do with the Warp (d100 Inquisitor). Suffice to say, there are a lot of alternate takes on this subject around, not "just" among players but also in officially licensed material such as the Dawn of War RTS, or this RPG.
As Gav Thorpe once said, none of them is wrong, it merely depends on where you look (including the possibility to come up with your own ideas, like a lot of famous novel writers do as well).
Edited by Lynata3rd Ed Codex for the win. The only true SoB one to date...he says disregarding the current ones as he disagrees with it.
Clerics and Zealots do have access to faith abilities if I remember that codex or at least should have the ability to access them, which is why I recommend it as a purchase able talent to unlock rather than an aptitude which requires modifications to existing archetypes. Sisters would then just start with it for free.
I'd go with the using/burning fate points approach, but with more powerful impact than i.e. Missionary powers in RT, because Ecclasiarchy is based upon Catholic Church and if we look at its saints the scheme in good number of cases is: do some miraculous deeds and reach martyrdom.
No need for psykers powers, taping into gestalt faithpower of humankind and all of this - just your unspecified*: faith or luck or protection from above commonly known as fate (points).
*ok, fate points are specified to be gained from the Emperor, but I treat it as imperial propaganda