I just played my first game last night. Our GM was running us through the Jewel of Yavin which was fun but a bit frustrating for the lack of initial ideas. Anyway, I was going through my things after the game and getting a bit of a deeper read and trying to find answers.

1.) Do guns run out of ammo? And do you have to purchase ammo?

I purchased a something "fiver" pistol which sounded cool to me and had the special rules accurate 1, limited ammo 5. I did a quick scan of it before I bought it, but going back through now that it seems a gun fight looms on the horizon, the limited ammo means I have to purchase all my ammo. This seems like a massive disadvantage in a lot of ways. I have no problem trading a maneuver to reload, but it seems like an unfair disadvantage to me as a player. I saw the spare ammo item and scrapped together the last of my credits to purchase it so that I wouldn't only have the five in the barrel. The rest of my group has a mix of blaster pistols of some sort, a vibrosword, and a heavy blaster rifle or something (4 of them have all played before and my girlfriend and I went to join them). We never got into a fight, but from what I read it seems I am the only one who has to regularly purchase ammo.

2.) How common are black dice?

I have a few talents that eliminate black dice on certain skills. How common are black dice? The GM always "rolls" against us and that seems to be the standard for the group. I didn't really want to rock the boat the first time out especially when I barely have a grasp on the rules. Instead of building a dice pool where each player rolls everything, you roll your character items while he rolls anything set against us. We never get to see the rolls, and he tells us what happens. Most of the time I succeeded when I made those rolls anyway and I let him know about the elimination every time but I wasn't sure how much of a difference it made.

3.) What are some good light armors?

I play the fringer rogue guy, specializing in nothing but able to do most things idea. Mostly a criminal element but not always. I quickly ran out of money since I didn't expand my starting obligation. Now that we got some credits, (about 3000) I wanted to look at getting a set of armor. I want something like that is concealable but will give me some protection. I didn't get a good look through the books (we are using them all) before we called it a night. What are your suggestions for a good light armor? I want to have higher ranged defense with a decent soak.

Setback dice should be very liberally used by the GM.

There's almost always a reason for at least one Setback die. If it's dark out, raining, windy, you're shooting at someone in a crowd, you're negotiating with somebody who doesn't like your species... plenty of reasons for one or more Setbacks.

Personally I'd encourage your GM to roll out in the open. It's just a lot more fun that way, because everybody can see the 3 Threats or the Despair that just got rolled, and possibly even suggest uses for them.

Ammo is a bit nebulous in this game.

In the case of your pistol, it just means you'd need to take an action to reload it ever five times you used it. And ammo is essentially free, although slug weapons are suggested that you need to purchase ammo. But no mechanics for that are given.

In the case of grenades, each use uses up one grenade. And they definitely need to be purchased individually.

Blasters and such have unlimited ammo essentially.

The GM always "rolls" against us and that seems to be the standard for the group. I didn't really want to rock the boat the first time out especially when I barely have a grasp on the rules. Instead of building a dice pool where each player rolls everything, you roll your character items while he rolls anything set against us.

I cant check the rule book because Cat In My Lap - but I seem to recall that's completely wrong. One party, in the book's example, gather all the dice in the pool and rolls - both good dice and bad, And even if the rules don't say, it should be - hiding the dice takes away from everyone at the table giving input on how awesome (or terrible) the outcome is.

So yes, you roll. You roll in the open, everyone winces (or cheers) you on. That's how it should work.

***edit***

Okay, cat's gone. Lets check the book, page 20: "After setting the difficulty level for the task, the GM adds the corresponding number of difficulty dice to the action's dice pool."

So - the player has gathered his dice, the GM then adds to that pile.

Also, on page 23: "After the dice pool is rolled, the playerS evaluate the results to resolve the outcome." - player plural, as in everyone GM and Non-GMs.

So yeah - the guy is doing it wrong.

The GM always "rolls" against us and that seems to be the standard for the group. I didn't really want to rock the boat the first time out especially when I barely have a grasp on the rules. Instead of building a dice pool where each player rolls everything, you roll your character items while he rolls anything set against us.

I cant check the rule book because Cat In My Lap - but I seem to recall that's completely wrong. One party, in the book's example, gather all the dice in the pool and rolls - both good dice and bad, And even if the rules don't say, it should be - hiding the dice takes away from everyone at the table giving input on how awesome (or terrible) the outcome is.

So yes, you roll. You roll in the open, everyone winces (or cheers) you on. That's how it should work.

***edit***

Okay, cat's gone. Lets check the book, page 20: "After setting the difficulty level for the task, the GM adds the corresponding number of difficulty dice to the action's dice pool."

So - the player has gathered his dice, the GM then adds to that pile.

Also, on page 23: "After the dice pool is rolled, the playerS evaluate the results to resolve the outcome." - player plural, as in everyone GM and Non-GMs.

So yeah - the guy is doing it wrong.

I know he is, but I didn't feel like arguing about a minor point. I have tested and run the warhammer fantasy game and they are pretty similar for the most part. So I knew he was doing the dice wrong, but as long as the same amount get rolled it doesn't matter too much for me.

Ammo is a bit nebulous in this game.

In the case of your pistol, it just means you'd need to take an action to reload it ever five times you used it. And ammo is essentially free, although slug weapons are suggested that you need to purchase ammo. But no mechanics for that are given.

In the case of grenades, each use uses up one grenade. And they definitely need to be purchased individually.

Blasters and such have unlimited ammo essentially.

So basically there is some mechanic that is half thought out saying slugthrowers should purchase ammo and no real rules on how to do it? I understood the whole reload aspect, which is completely fine since I get a bonus die for accurate and it being offset by a negative. Just the whole, I have to purchase ammo and no one else does really sucks. Maybe I will talk to him about ignoring that aspect of it.

I know he is, but I didn't feel like arguing about a minor point. I have tested and run the warhammer fantasy game and they are pretty similar for the most part. So I knew he was doing the dice wrong, but as long as the same amount get rolled it doesn't matter too much for me.

Actually I would say that it's a cornerstone of the game more than just a minor point. The whole point of the EotE Engine is tell the coolest story you can - you being the whole group. If one side monopolizes the dice, leaving the other party in the dark and unable to contribute, then you are not fulfilling the FFG mandate of maximum fun per roll.

Many a time as the GM, I'm at a loss on how to interpret a roll, and I'll turn to the players for ideas. Or occasionally I'll just go "So, tell me how awesome you are!" - you cant do this if you have the GM's screen between you and your players.

Also, on page 23: "After the dice pool is rolled, the playerS evaluate the results to resolve the outcome." - player plural, as in everyone GM and Non-GMs.

So yeah - the guy is doing it wrong.

I know he is, but I didn't feel like arguing about a minor point. I have tested and run the warhammer fantasy game and they are pretty similar for the most part. So I knew he was doing the dice wrong, but as long as the same amount get rolled it doesn't matter too much for me.

Agree with Desslok, this is a major point. Your GM needs to learn to give up this artifact of ancient styles of roleplaying I know some people still hide some rolls from players, but I have been playing for a couple years now and a) never hide rolls from my players; b) almost always have players roll for a situation rather than NPCs, except for combat.

As for the other questions:

1) If the quality says "Limited" then yes you have to count ammo, and buy reloads. It's not a great idea, you're trading Accurate for ammo-counting, I'd switch to something else.

2) they should appear a lot. This is one reason why the GM should roll openly, because the setback dice should be obvious so that you can say "hey, I have this Talent that lets me get rid of 2 of those 3"

3) Armour isn't really a big deal in this game. You need some, but it's not like D&D where the amount of options are overwhelming...kind of the opposite. You'll want something with at least 1 hard point. As a rogue type it might make more sense to stick with nondescript stuff, like Armoured Clothing, which at least gives you a hard point to work with. Laminate is stormtrooper gear, and pretty obvious. Note the difference between the two isn't immediately all that significant in game terms, except Laminate can take 3 hard points.

There is a mechanic for running out of ammo. 3 threats can cause you to run out of ammo.

There is a mechanic for running out of ammo. 3 threats can cause you to run out of ammo.

Re-read the OP. The blaster has the Limited Ammo quality, so he has to count shots.

Also, for blasters without the Limited quality, running out of ammo is only on a Despair, unless it's a Heavy Blaster, in which case it's either 3 Threats or a Despair.

There is a mechanic for running out of ammo. 3 threats can cause you to run out of ammo.

Re-read the OP. The blaster has the Limited Ammo quality, so he has to count shots.

Also, for blasters without the Limited quality, running out of ammo is only on a Despair, unless it's a Heavy Blaster, in which case it's either 3 Threats or a Despair.

My point was there is a mechanic for running out of ammo. Which most people were ignoring.

That mechanic still only means you need to reload. Not that you are out of ammo completely.

Most of your question were answered by Whafrog but

1) yes guns and blasters can run out of ammo. Ammo system is more cinematic, with the exception of weapons with the limited ammo quality. This means they could have unlimited rounds, but it also allows for the sudden empty clip. If I was DMing I'd say the usual despair mean your weapon runs out of ammo doesn't apply but the gun still might jam making you waste a round instead of the whole clip like a blaster would. I would suggest trading or adding the HL-27 blaster pistol so you can keep the accuracy but lose the limited ammo, or switch to a standard slug-pistol. Keep in mind you can still run out of ammo with a despair like Whafrog, Daeglan, and Badmotivator say so having the extra reloads is useful.

2) Black dice are fairly common as Progressions says, but that's up to the GM. If you have abilities that cancel black dice you might not think you are getting much until someone else tries to do the same thing and take those setback dice.

As for rolling in the open, yes the DM should do that except for maybe some key skills. Enemies using skills like stealth, deception, or charm are examples of what I roll behind the screen but each DM is different. You could always talk to your DM and mention both the Setback dice and rolling behind the screen privately. A lot of problems can be solved using this method.

3) I agree with Whafrog and think that Armored clothing is a the best light armor so far. 1 defense has saved my players behinds a few to many times for my taste but not enough to make me hate it, and that one hard point gives a little for add-ons.

Hope this helps.

Most of your question were answered by Whafrog but

1) yes guns and blasters can run out of ammo. Ammo system is more cinematic, with the exception of weapons with the limited ammo quality. This means they could have unlimited rounds, but it also allows for the sudden empty clip. If I was DMing I'd say the usual despair mean your weapon runs out of ammo doesn't apply but the gun still might jam making you waste a round instead of the whole clip like a blaster would. I would suggest trading or adding the HL-27 blaster pistol so you can keep the accuracy but lose the limited ammo, or switch to a standard slug-pistol. Keep in mind you can still run out of ammo with a despair like Whafrog, Daeglan, and Badmotivator say so having the extra reloads is useful.

2) Black dice are fairly common as Progressions says, but that's up to the GM. If you have abilities that cancel black dice you might not think you are getting much until someone else tries to do the same thing and take those setback dice.

As for rolling in the open, yes the DM should do that except for maybe some key skills. Enemies using skills like stealth, deception, or charm are examples of what I roll behind the screen but each DM is different. You could always talk to your DM and mention both the Setback dice and rolling behind the screen privately. A lot of problems can be solved using this method.

3) I agree with Whafrog and think that Armored clothing is a the best light armor so far. 1 defense has saved my players behinds a few to many times for my taste but not enough to make me hate it, and that one hard point gives a little for add-ons.

Hope this helps.

Enemies should not be rolling stealth. Players should be rolling perception or vigilance with the difficulty being the enemies skill in stealth.

Oh and you and your GM should go listen to the Order66 podcast. lots of really good info. they have the Devs for stars wars on many times which helps you understand their intents. Jay Littles discussions of the Die mechanic are especially good. He created them.

My point was there is a mechanic for running out of ammo. Which most people were ignoring.

Except that mechanic does not apply to the OP...

Edit: maybe technically it would, but if somebody was using a Limited Ammo item, I wouldn't use a Despair to make them run out of ammo...that seems unfair. I'd spend the Despair on something else.

Slug thrower ammo is incredibly rare in the SW universe, simply because slug throwers are very rare.

Its the trade off of having your "Fiver" pistol. Yes, it does make your pistol "worse" than a blaster pistol of the same quality. But you have a revolver. Thats cool, and 90% of the point of playing the game.

I like the idea that progressions mentioned above - the GM rolling the purples and reds in tandem with the player(s) rolling their yellows, greens, blacks, blues, oranges, pinks and whatever else, and then comparing the results. Makes for a bit of drama.

I like the idea that progressions mentioned above - the GM rolling the purples and reds in tandem with the player(s) rolling their yellows, greens, blacks, blues, oranges, pinks and whatever else, and then comparing the results. Makes for a bit of drama.

This works, of course, because technically it doesn't matter who picks up the dice and physically rolls them on the table.

But just to be clear, I was actually just recommending they play the game as written, where the player who's making the skill check picks up all the dice in their dice pool and rolls them all.

I mainly think it's better for the GM to roll out in the open for skill checks made by the NPCs. In this type of game where there's so much hinging on interpretation of the dice results, I personally find little to be gained by rolling in secret.

Welcome Mightyconeshot!

So yeah, everything has been answered here, but I still want to throw in my two cents as far as rolling goes. I am the GM for our Group, and I have been playing Edge for almost a year, with a big break in there in the middle, so about 6 months of actual gaming time. I have never played a narrative game before Edge. I am a GM from the old SW WEG days through the CR/RCR D20 and SAGA editions. Getting used to this system was an adjustment for me, but from the get go I really liked it. It was so different from the other games. I have my players roll 99.9% of the time and dice. I usually have them roll for my baddies too! I Just tell them the dice for my baddies, and the difficulty. I have only done a couple of "hidden" rolls, and that was a NPC Force Die where I wanted a certain outcome... Ok, yes I do cheat from time to time. I have even gotten up and went to "look" at someone's dice pool, and maybe the dice "turned" over in the process to a Sucess... (Yes, I do cheat for my PCs on occasion when they have ultra cold dice).

Anyway...I feel that having the players roll all the dice is what this game is about. I use the "black" setback dice in about every roll they make, and they have talents that can get rid of most of them. So if my Slicer and my Bounty Hunter are both doing some hacking they will have the same difficulty, but will be loaded up on Setback dice, which the Slicer talents get rid of, giving him the Edge. I also always explain my difficulties and setback dice to the group. When I use a Destiny point to flip a purple to a red, I really try hard to give them the reason for the increased difficulty. Sometimes it is as simple as you have a bad feeling about taking that shot or doing that action... No Despair, no problem. For me and my group, me telling them they have a Despair is a lot less impactful than them seeing it come up in THEIR dice pool.

For me as a GM, not having to roll has really been liberating for me, and this has helped with my players too. In a lot of games, it can seem(or is) the GM versus the players. With the Edge narrative system and having the players roll the skill and difficulty dice in the open, it really just crashes that barrier down. As long as the GM is presenting fair and consistent difficulties to the players that is.

I still determine what will happen on Threats and Despairs and they tell me what will happen on their Advantages and Triumphs, and without being able to see it all can really dampen this creative process. And again, for every setback die I put in the pool, I tell them why it is there. If you can't see the difficulty pool, then what is the point? I like to build my difficulty pool in front of the players sliding each die in, telling them what is going on. Then if they feel they can make the check, they roll. If it seems too daunting, they may back out of it.

Anyway, I highly encourage you to talk to your GM about this, and see if you can get him to go "by the book" on this, as this is how the game was designed to work. If he wants to hide his rolls, there are plenty of other systems for that, but in this system, he is just robbing everyone of a great opportunity to help get involved in the story telling process.

Good luck out there, and clear skies!

My recommendation for the concealed armor is a "catch vest" from Suns of Fortune. 200 credits, soak 2 against blasters, soak 1 against everything else. Armored clothing is pretty cool. I think my favorite armor might be type 3 berethron armor from Suns of Fortune. But armor flight suit (Suns of Fortune) and protector armor from dangerous covenants is also pretty good.

All right. Thanks for all the responses guys. I will talk to him next time we will get together.

Enemies should not be rolling stealth. Players should be rolling perception or vigilance with the difficulty being the enemies skill in stealth.

You can't just reverse these (ie upgrades becoming downgrades or boost becoming setback and vice versa) without affecting the statistics because the dice aren't mirrors. I just rule whoever is actively triggering the check rolls it, ie if you're actively trying to sneak by some guards then you roll, but if you're hiding in a room and they start looking for you by sweeping it then they roll.

Enemies should not be rolling stealth. Players should be rolling perception or vigilance with the difficulty being the enemies skill in stealth.

I disagree with this part of your post. It's not supported by the raw and makes a lot of talents and gear worthless. Any talents or gear the enemy has that remove setback dice become worthless, any talent or gear that grants enemies boost dice or ability upgrades becomes worthless, and any talents or gear the players have that add setback dice to the enemie, or upgrade the enemies difficulty become worthless, etc.

You can't just reverse these (ie upgrades becoming downgrades or boost becoming setback and vice versa) without affecting the statistics because the dice aren't mirrors. I just rule whoever is actively triggering the check rolls it, ie if you're actively trying to sneak by some guards then you roll, but if you're hiding in a room and they start looking for you by sweeping it then they roll.

Yeah the statistics are off, but the focus is the players. The dice favor success and threat, so having NPCs roll their skills makes them more likely to succeed.

You control the gear the NPCs have.

There is also precedence for "mirroring" with the opposed social checks.

Enemies should not be rolling stealth. Players should be rolling perception or vigilance with the difficulty being the enemies skill in stealth.

I disagree with this part of your post. It's not supported by the raw and makes a lot of talents and gear worthless. Any talents or gear the enemy has that remove setback dice become worthless, any talent or gear that grants enemies boost dice or ability upgrades becomes worthless, and any talents or gear the players have that add setback dice to the enemie, or upgrade the enemies difficulty become worthless, etc.

The only thing I have NPCs roll for is combat or chases and the like. I don't roll for NPCs who are sneaking up on characters or trying to lie. NPCs are simply plot devices and story elements, and I feel that it's up to the PCs to initiate changes in the world, not the NPCs. Worrying about what gear they have (other than as a way to provide the PCs with some kind of reward) seems kind of pointless, because if I want the NPC to have snuck near them successfully, then it happens, and it's up to the PCs to detect them. If an NPC has a piece of equipment that gives him 2 boost dice for, say, Stealth, and it was something I felt I really needed to account for in the PC's chances, I'd just add 2 setback to the PC's roll. It's close enough to be statistically irrelevant.

The main reason for this is to keep all rolls open. The alternative is going to back to hidden rolls, which is pointless to me and reinforces all that old "antagonistic" stuff I've left behind...plus, why roll secretly? I might as well just make up the results, who would know?

So basically there is some mechanic that is half thought out saying slugthrowers should purchase ammo and no real rules on how to do it? I understood the whole reload aspect, which is completely fine since I get a bonus die for accurate and it being offset by a negative. Just the whole, I have to purchase ammo and no one else does really sucks. Maybe I will talk to him about ignoring that aspect of it.

This isn't exactly the case. As was pointed out earlier, this specific slugthrower (the "fiver" pistol) has the benefit of being Accurate (throw in a Boost die to all combat checks using the pistol), but the drawback of Limited Ammo.

If a weapon doesn't have the Limited Ammo quality, then it only runs out of ammo if the GM decides to spend a Despair to do so (or 2-3 Threat, in the case of Heavy Blasters and some other similar weapons).

In either case, you can purchase the Extra Reloads item for some chump change and make sure that you've got a backup magazine/power pack for when the going gets tough.

And then once more you make talents and gear that upgrade a foes difficulty or give setback to a foe that the player has as useless. As for the gear/talents the npc has that upgrade their ability or downgrades difficulty or adds boost, removing these doesn't just slightly tilt things in the PC's favor it drastically does so, especially at later sessions once the PC's have amassed a decent amount of exp. It doesn't take away from the player (at least I don't feel nor have my players voiced such) to not roll everything, far from it, it sometimes can add an element of suspense and avoids a lot of out of character knowledge from unconsciously guiding the actions of a player when they just see a roll (such as for stealth) but don't know what it's for. This again is RAW, I am all for you running your table however you feel best but we should clarify houserules as houserules.