I'm asking this here because this seems like the most active forum by far.

SO

Apart from Spess Mehreens and Gland Warriors, does the Imperium engage in any sort of genetic tampering?

Death Korps of Krieg may have been tempered with a bit. The Afrieli Strain of guardman clones are a famous example of an attempt at gengineering as well.

Genetic meddling is one of the major nonos of the Mechanicus, as it has a fantastic tendency to go terribly wrong.

The Death Korps? How did they get messed with? Is it about the whole "may be clones" thing?

I forgot about the Afriel Strain.

But why does it go wrong? Do they eff it up when they accidentally dump lubricant into the petri dish?

I do get that its a huge taboo for the Imperium, given its belief of the sacred human form mind you, I just want to know, because SOMEONE out there is f**king about with somebody's genes, and I wanna know about it!

Not sure how "fluffy" this is (given you can make it up if you darn well please), but some particularly radical inquisitors getting whole new organs?? Someone had to take the time, and have the know-how, to do that.

Depends how you interpret the ninth Mechanicus law of "The alien mechanism is a perversion of the True Path". If you implant yourself with Xenos organs this doesn't mean you'll pass them onto your children so your DNA is still (probably) human. On the other hand, you might fail a Genestealer test and be shot on the spot, and you're implying that the human body is not the BEST THING IN THE GALAXY (it obviously is).

I mean yes, my Magos Biologis representative is obviously as heretical as all get out and is using Xenos implantation to create a new, superior human. She's culminating it in trying to implant Kroot organs that allows actual DNA manipulation so that she can pass these traits on reproductively. Too bad she used the corrupted Kroot of Warsphere Shek.

Not sure how "fluffy" this is (given you can make it up if you darn well please), but some particularly radical inquisitors getting whole new organs?? Someone had to take the time, and have the know-how, to do that.

Technically speaking ... sure, why not. You already mentioned the Space Marines, whose implants are a product of genetic engineering using arcane AdMech science and thousands of test-slaves as harvested hosts, and whose Primarchs were clones themselves. No reason a Radical Inquisitor could not launch their own program, given the theoretically limitless authority they have, if they are clever and resourceful enough to exert this level of influence.

You may find this read interesting - an excerpt from White Dwarf #252: http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_cf.html

Genetic meddling is one of the major nonos of the Mechanicus, as it has a fantastic tendency to go terribly wrong.

This one is actually not entirely true. It's generally frowned on, but not one of the 'big' no-nos like the Silica Animus. As with what constitutes human/abhuman/mutant there seems ot be a lot of grey area in this that's largely left to the interpretation of individual authorities. And, as we know, what one Inquisitor does not even blink at, another declares a foul mutant, such as the time the Inquisition declared exterminatus because the population of a world had unusual hair colors, iirc.

Certainly the Navis Nobilite are into gene tampering. I'm of the opinion that most of the Imperium engages in these practices. I'd assume the higher nobilities do this on a rather regular basis. They are the beautiful people.

I don't quite remember the thing, but there is something else like genetic tampering or whatever. Like improving existing individuals. It's already present with the likes of Luther or Faeron for start, but there's more to it. I remember that Hector Rex, a titled Inquisitor Lord who was also subject to genetic augmentation and this is also a precedent. There's Genetor career of cource, allowing for great many possibities.

So yes, such thing exists and you also create your own. After all, the human body is as FAR from being the best in the galaxy as it can possibly be, so it needs a little improvement! Or maybe not just a little.

Well there is the whole Magos Biologis ( http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Magos_Biologis ) branch of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

A few of the factions within this branch seem like they're going to fit the bill (see below)

• Apexists - The search to find the perfect form, which is strengthened via adversity. Based on a pre-Imperial scholar's writings.
• Carnicula - A splinter sect of the Hippocrasians, the Carnicula look to lengthen the lifespan of vat-grown constructs.
• Companions of Vogel - Forced genetic augmentation is needed to strengthen humanity. A young and radical philosophy, as it implies the human form is somehow insufficient alone.
• Organicists - A wide ranging faction affiliated to the Carnicula.

Additionally the False Man origin described in Into the Storm implies that people do occasionally tamper with creating life if non-standard ways.

I can easily see a Rogue Trader Dynasty supporting one of these branches in order to ensure that it has a powerful genetic legacy to pass through to it's heirs.

and you might want to look at this http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/125279-gene-tailored-guardsmen/

We did this not too long ago

And also the non-militant Orders Famulous of the Adepta Sororitas does on their own genetic work as well

There is also mention of (Unification and Crusade era) regiments of the Imperial Army that practiced genic mustering (selectively breeding for prime traits in soldiers; potentially, but AFAIK not stated to go further and do some gene-tweaking*): offhand I believe Geno 52 Chiliad and 73 Spartiate.

More recently:

The deliberate creation of specialised vat-grown tweaked breeds is definitely known (certain servitors, particularly Praetorians, plus of course those cherubim not created from slaughtered babies), and theorised to be at least partially the case for others (the enhanced metabolisms of Eversor assassins are a result of artificially created extra organs, plus the alteration of the existing).

For that matter, the alteration of the human form by the implantation of vat-grown additions for the purposes of improving human capacity is well documented in canon (and indeed, by RAW, although I may be thinking of DH, as it has been a long day): vat-grown muscle implants are a possibility, as are alterations such as an implanted blade made of (presumably artificially strengthened and hardened) bone. There is at least one example of alterations via implanted tissue being done for cosmetic reasons also (a Catachan sergeant who had had the tusks of an ork he killed fitted to his lower jaw; I also vaguely seem to remember a mention elsewhere of a fashion among the idle nobility of one world towards growing fur and manes [for the men, presumably, but...] and of organic but gem-like eyes. I doubt it was a fashion that lasted beyond a puritanical Inquisitor or Arbites general getting wind of it. There was another case in which the Inquisitor [a radical] wasn't sure if it was a mutation among the ruling class or implanted alterations, which were implied to be allowable, but the planet was accidentally subject to exterminatus soon afterwards anyway).

Hopefully that was coherent and useful- more/editing when I have had sleep.

*The tradition of genic mustering is strongly implied to be one of the Emperor's inspirations for the creation of the Thunder Warriors, and later Primarchs and Astartes.

There's also mention about gene-upgraded Skitarii in Legio Invicta:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Skitarii

(Knowing liability of Lexicanum I must admit I haven't read Abnett's Titanicus they are refering to.)

There's also mention about gene-upgraded Skitarii in Legio Invicta:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Skitarii

( Knowing liability of Lexicanum I must admit I haven't read Abnett's Titanicus they are refering to.)

As a huge fan of Lexicanum, I must ask what?

There's also mention about gene-upgraded Skitarii in Legio Invicta:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Skitarii

( Knowing liability of Lexicanum I must admit I haven't read Abnett's Titanicus they are refering to.)

As a huge fan of Lexicanum, I must ask what?

Lexicanum is a wiki (without question a good one; I consider myself its fan also) and as such is IMHO always a little bit doubtful as a source.

I agree that I should write: Knowing liability of every wiki.

Lexicanum is a wiki (without question a good one; I consider myself its fan also) and as such is IMHO always a little bit doubtful as a source.

I agree that I should write: Knowing liability of every wiki.

Precisely.

In the past I have noticed Lexicanum to outright claim things that the alleged source did not say (example: the SoB codex supposedly mentioning Miriael Sabathiel), whilst other articles are quite simply a mishmash of different, non-synchronised sources where one or more editors simply cherrypicked aspects of each book in an attempt to somehow craft a uniform description (example: see the Deathwatch article, which manages to conflict with both GW codex as well as FFG material, simply because it tries to incorporate elements from both sources, which simply happen to be inherently incompatible on some subjects).

Most of it is caused by the chief editors of Lexicanum still clinging to the idea that there is a uniform canon - an idea that got rejected by the very people creating the stuff they add to their wiki. The very notion of a wiki dedicated to storing detailed descriptions for a setting whose details are not intended to be compatible to one another is ... tricky. Editors are bound to apply their own subjective preferences for one source over another when they try to write articles on a subject, and this is where things get problematic, because preferences will differ between one person to the next, and in 40k, "nobody is wrong".

What Lexicanum is awesome for is as a sort of index, though, because you can read up on stuff and then look up the original source. Something I would always recommend due to the aforementioned methods and examples .. though the necessity of doing so depends on how much you're interested in verifying the original writing or just accepting the semi-unified interpretation as presented by Lexicanum's editors.

tl;dr: just be aware of the risk for conflicts between Lexicanum articles and the source material

Had an interesting talk with one of the senior admins of the German Lexicanum on the Eternal Crusade forums. Apparently the editors decide on a "case by case" basis, sometimes relying on age of source, other times the origin (GW > BL), yet other times on which author has written it, and most often a combination of these factors. As you can see, there's a lot of room for interpretation, and interpretation breeds disagreement.

Abnett's ideas of the Adeptus Mechanicus in particular can be somewhat unconventional at times .. stuff like sentient servitors who apparently have spare time when not "on the program" and stuff like that. At least that that fits to his concept of servitor-navigators, I guess.

Bottom line: Pick what you like.

And also the non-militant Orders Famulous of the Adepta Sororitas does on their own genetic work as well

At least in GW's material this is more a program of eugenics rather than actual genetic modification - that being said, perhaps this might be an idea for OP to explore as well? Nazi Germany might offer some inspiration here, in particular projects like the Lebensborn.

Forgeworld's Horus Heresy IV book mentions the "gene-wrought Marnean Armsmen" as an Imerial Army Regiment of outstanding power and performance.

Lexicanum is a wiki (without question a good one; I consider myself its fan also) and as such is IMHO always a little bit doubtful as a source.

I agree that I should write: Knowing liability of every wiki.

Precisely.

In the past I have noticed Lexicanum to outright claim things that the alleged source did not say (example: the SoB codex supposedly mentioning Miriael Sabathiel), whilst other articles are quite simply a mishmash of different, non-synchronised sources where one or more editors simply cherrypicked aspects of each book in an attempt to somehow craft a uniform description (example: see the Deathwatch article, which manages to conflict with both GW codex as well as FFG material, simply because it tries to incorporate elements from both sources, which simply happen to be inherently incompatible on some subjects).

Most of it is caused by the chief editors of Lexicanum still clinging to the idea that there is a uniform canon - an idea that got rejected by the very people creating the stuff they add to their wiki. The very notion of a wiki dedicated to storing detailed descriptions for a setting whose details are not intended to be compatible to one another is ... tricky. Editors are bound to apply their own subjective preferences for one source over another when they try to write articles on a subject, and this is where things get problematic, because preferences will differ between one person to the next, and in 40k, "nobody is wrong".

What Lexicanum is awesome for is as a sort of index, though, because you can read up on stuff and then look up the original source. Something I would always recommend due to the aforementioned methods and examples .. though the necessity of doing so depends on how much you're interested in verifying the original writing or just accepting the semi-unified interpretation as presented by Lexicanum's editors.

tl;dr: just be aware of the risk for conflicts between Lexicanum articles and the source material

Had an interesting talk with one of the senior admins of the German Lexicanum on the Eternal Crusade forums. Apparently the editors decide on a "case by case" basis, sometimes relying on age of source, other times the origin (GW > BL), yet other times on which author has written it, and most often a combination of these factors. As you can see, there's a lot of room for interpretation, and interpretation breeds disagreement.

Abnett's ideas of the Adeptus Mechanicus in particular can be somewhat unconventional at times .. stuff like sentient servitors who apparently have spare time when not "on the program" and stuff like that. At least that that fits to his concept of servitor-navigators, I guess.

Bottom line: Pick what you like.

And also the non-militant Orders Famulous of the Adepta Sororitas does on their own genetic work as well

At least in GW's material this is more a program of eugenics rather than actual genetic modification - that being said, perhaps this might be an idea for OP to explore as well? Nazi Germany might offer some inspiration here, in particular projects like the Lebensborn.

Funny thing, after posting my reply to Fgdsfg's question I thought "that's how one summons Lynata to the discussion"

Back to the OT: correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't dubbling into pure human form forbidden mostly by the laws/dogma of Ecclesiarchy?

If so, than we've got quite interesting situation: does RT outside of Imperium boarders have, recognized by Ecclesiarchy, right to overwrite such religious dogma just as he/she got right to trade with xenotech while it's prohibited by Inqusition and AdMech inside Imperium boarders?

IMO: no, but just as Lynata said: Pick what you like.

Funny thing, after posting my reply to Fgdsfg's question I thought "that's how one summons Lynata to the discussion"

Guilty as charged.

Back to the OT: correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't dubbling into pure human form forbidden mostly by the laws/dogma of Ecclesiarchy?

If so, than we've got quite interesting situation: does RT outside of Imperium boarders have, recognized by Ecclesiarchy, right to overwrite such religious dogma just as he/she got right to trade with xenotech while it's prohibited by Inqusition and AdMech inside Imperium boarders?

Ecclesiarchal dogma does not stop at any borders - it is universal, and agents of the Ministorum regularly venture beyond the frontier to carry out covert operations or missionary work. That being said, there are many factions within the faith, and it might be possible to gain tacit acceptance with one of them, depending on how exactly your genetic research looks (removing imperfections, reducing the chance of mutation including the psyker gene, etc) ... or how much you are willing to "donate" to the Church's coffers.

The safest way would of course be to just keep quiet about your work and not advertise it at all.

(disclaimer: as usual, the above merely represents my interpretation as forged by GW's own material - blind acceptance is by no means mandatory)

And also the non-militant Orders Famulous of the Adepta Sororitas does on their own genetic work as well

At least in GW's material this is more a program of eugenics rather than actual genetic modification - that being said, perhaps this might be an idea for OP to explore as well? Nazi Germany might offer some inspiration here, in particular projects like the Lebensborn.

Isn't that just a matter of the Orders Famulous being basically non-psychic Bene Gesserit? Not that that is necessarily a bad thing, of course (I like the Dune influences in 40k).

Frankly, 40k is equal parts Dune, Foundation and Starship Troopers, spiced up with various other sci-fi such as Caves of Steel and Alien.

Without my Imperial Armour books in front of me, I think what Krieg does is called in-vitea something and while not considered heretical it is "frowned" upon by the AdMech, but genetic alteration in 40K...happens all the time as far as I can tell, it is just a matter of how heretical you're thinking.

My whole idea essentially was to create a squad of highly augmented, both genetically and cybernetically, super-soldiers that would guard the servitor that had my Warrant of Trade and the name of the next in line imprinted in its...servitor-y brain thing, whatever servitors use for that. The goal being that upon my death they would go find the next in line, and if anyone tried anything (every single pc in my group openly announced their intention to take my Warrant upon my unfortunate death) they would get utteryl destroyed by these. They would also double as protection should someone try to destroy said servitor. Crazy/heretical? You betcha. But this is Rogue Trader, and my friends are Hereteks and Aspyce Chorda is on my speed-dial.

so skitarii or murder servitors . have you considered hireing the stryxis or if more bold(or foolish) perhaps the haemonculi to make a custom job potentialy expensive in more ways than one but then what are rogue traders for.

so skitarii or murder servitors . have you considered hireing the stryxis or if more bold(or foolish) perhaps the haemonculi to make a custom job potentialy expensive in more ways than one but then what are rogue traders for.

I did, but my RT is WAY too proud: He's fully conivnced humanity can do anything the aliens can do, better. We just have to figure it out first. Granted, he has no idea of how ANY of it works, but he hires others people for that kinda thing, he just comes up with the crazy endeavors and then manages to pull it off.

hows the exploritor if he is sneaky he could convice rouge trader to attack xenos then steal the tech and claim it was his all along hey maybe he can do it better who knows.