So last night I just picked up the Outrider, then went over to my buddies house to test it out. I have played against it 5 times previously from guys in our shop that went to GenCon, so I had some idea of how to run it ( or so i thought).

Game 1 I ran...

Dash

-Outrider Title

-HLC

-PTL

-Engine Upgrade

-Recon Speciallst

B-wing(PS2)

-Advance Sensors

Z-95(PS4)

VS

Falcon(Chewie)

-Recon Specialist

-Veteran Instincts

-??

-??

Biggs

-R2-D2

Dutch

-Ion Turret

I forgot how fast Dash could go, so I essentially put myself in a bad situation first turn where Dash could shoot turn one, then all 3 enemy ships could return fire. Turn 2 Dash got blocked in to where i couldn't boost or barrel roll out of arcs, so I died only being able to shoot twice, doing no damage.... (Bad piloting on my part, lesson learned)

Game 2 was over before it began as my buddy wanted to run his double phantom list....

Game 3 he got his first list out again, but I changed mine...

Dash

-Outrider Title

-HLC

-EU

-PTL

-Nien Nunb

Jan Ors (HWK)

-Ion Turret

Z-95 (PS 2)

This game went much better, but I still lost. Biggs died, then my fighters died. Dash was doing laps around the edge of the board taking free shot at Dutch at range 3 while arc(range?) dodging the Falcon. I had Dutch down to 4 hull before Dash and the Falcon darted to the other side of the board, making Dutch irrelevant for the rest of the game. Got the Falcon down to 3 hull before Dash exploded

Overall, my dice for the night were bouncing between average and below average, nothing too horrible. I feel like Nien over Recon Specialist had much better synergy with PTL and the maneuverability of the Outrider, but severely limits the HWK, especially when your to keep these 2 at least somewhat close. I also would have liked to of run 3x Z-95s in the first list, but I only own one right now(hoping to pick up a few more on black Friday).

Having played against it a few times and now having played with it (granted I need a little more practice with it), I am still not super impressed with it. I love the nostalgic memories it brings back from the Nintendo 64 days, but don't see it being very competitive. With these builds, its coming in at 57 58 points which is a huge chunk of your list. Any other builds you guys have had luck with?

My personal experience is that, when using a HLC, you only get the full benefit when you can stack a focus and a target lock (or predator or something that rerolls the dice). From then on out, you are no longer as vulnerable to the whims of the dice and with proper flying, you can deal constant damage (I learned this the hard way with Defenders using HLC). Maybe that's just how I roll, however

Hmm...So maybe Dutch flying along side the Outrider then...

Hmm...So maybe Dutch flying along side the Outrider then...

Or someone passing a focus like Kyle, Garven (with some help) or maybe a combo involving the fleet officer somehow. If my math is right, the average number of hits for a HLC are:

Unmodified: 2

Focus or target lock : 3

Focus and target lock : 3.75 (now that starts to hurt)

How to make it all work together though, that's another thing entirely. I've been playing the Empire for months and I have yet to exhaust all the possibilities (and now with wave 5, I have some more work to do, lol).

Played with Dash, ptl, hlc, outrider, Katarn and two Gold with ion turret and took out my mates list who used the same Dash but with 3 Prototype with refit.

Have to say Dash with those two Golds worked like a charm.

Kyle Katarn crew is pretty great. Burn the stress from PTL, use Barrel Roll/Boost for positioning (you want range 3/avoiding arcs), and TL if you have the spare action. Your whole goal with Dash is to stay at long range and using rocks as obstacles/separation for your opponent. Stay at it; he's really good when you get the hang of it.

Try Kyle Katarn crew instead of Recon Specialist. If you're going ditching stress from PTL you might as well get a focus token for your trouble. Recon Specialist and PTL doesn't give you as many options as Kyle does and Kyle works even if you bump.

So you hadn't tried Kyle Katarn as your crew member? Just making sure because to me he's the secret ingredient. What Kyle does as long as you can or at least on the turn cycles that you can keep him triggering is provide you with the Focus half while you have two more actions to get out of the way with Boost/Roll or, thanks to your large size one of those reactive moves is often enough so your other action can get the Lock. Plus Kyle has some defensive tactics he opens up. Like going purposely for a bump with a green and still getting a focus for defense. Used that trick to win the game against two interceptors in the late game once. Also he can keep you at two action economy when your opponent brings stressing mechanics which I consider to be kind of defensive.

And to be fair you pay much of that near 60pts to be able to dodge arcs, your opponent mitigated it twice with another turret that didn't lose its points to you because it spent his on survivability. And Phantoms are the hard counter to Dash in the Rock-Paper-Scissor wheel. And the catch with having a large ship that maneuverable is that you really have to plan three turns ahead for spots where you are as far away as you can be(with out flying of a board edge ). Sometimes leaving behind a shot and seeing if they screw up and still fall in your sights.

Ninja'd TWICE!? o_O

Dash is difficult to play correctly. If you make a single positional mistake you can get blocked in and loose the game.

But he is absolutely devastating when played correctly.

Also, Kyle crew gives a free focus token after removing a stress, so 58 Dash can get 3 actions. Drop Recon specialist.

Also Kyle activation+Focus Action gets you the end effect of Recon Specialist but with an extra action floating.

What everyone else said, but also, it sounds like part of your difficulty came from your target priorities. Dutch wouldn't really have been much of a threat in the end game, especially against Dash. Chewie on the other hand? BIG threat. Next time, focus down Chewie first (or as soon as Biggs is out of the way) while you still have all/most your ships available. Once he's down dealing with the wingmen will be much easier.

Ps9 dash

IMO, the HLC outrider is so expensive it only makes sense on a cheap ship, I have only used it on the generic, and it has done well. Left me with enough points for wedge and Garven, who provide solid firepower along with the HLC turret. Then your expensive turret is not the only big target out there.

Ps9 dash

He would have lost worse had he run ps9 dash.

Ps9 dash

This is how I usually run Dash. I like fast Dash but being able to move after everyone else and open up the range on your opponents (if necessary) is a god send. Don't get me wrong, multi-action Dash is fantastic but against phantoms or other ships that perform best above PS8 I think you might run into problems.

What do you guys do for PS9 dash. Began instinct, outrider, hlc, ???. This is where I put recon spec in. Always felt like there has to be another choice I hadn't seen.