Hey all,

So my Bounty Hunter uses Blaster Carbines. They seem fun to me. I like the aesthetic roleplaying aspect of carrying a bigger gun that I can shoot like a rifle when cinematically cool, or shoot like a blaster pistol when appropriate.

That being said . . . did Blaster Carbines get the shaft?

Taking a look at weapon enhancements, Carbines have HARDLY any modifications that can be used with them. For a little while I thought that they were just considered Blaster Rifles, but on certain Mods you see "Available for: Blaster Rifles, Blaster Carbines". So they are specific in the mods . . . but only 3 or so Mods actually state useable with Carbines.

Heck, one specific mod turns the Carbine more into a shotgun, which is not what I wanted with my character.

So first, am I missing something? Why are Carbines on the bad end of the mod table?

Second, because the mods are useless for a Carbine, when I took the Gadgeteer talent to increase Hard Points by one, I actually simply used it on my buddies Sniper Rifle, since he actually needed a Hard Point far more than me. While I'm sure we'll still allow it because, hey, teamwork and fun, I just want to know if it is RAW that you can purchase a Talent and give the benefit to another player. (Mod talents, not personal talents obviously.)

Attachments that work with blaster carbines:

- Forearm Grip

- Multi-optic Sight

- Spread Barrel

- Superior Weapon Customization

- Under-barrel Grenade Launcher

- Under-barrel Flame Projector

- Telescopic Optical Sight

- Weapon Sling

That's just from the core rules. Then, in Dangerous Covenant, you get:

- Laser Sight

- Gene Lock

- Pistol Grip

- (Arguably the Secondary Missile System)

So that's a little more than "3 or so".

You could always homebrew mods as needed. I think Cartol's Emporium, a fan supplement, has a few mod options too. One of my PCs is a Hired Gun - Heavy and primarily uses a carbine, despite multiple ranks in burly and barrage.

IMHO there is almost no reason to use a Carbine over a rifle unless you are trying to shave off that one point of encumberance. My character did use a Carbine as a backup weapon after his sniper rifle. And yes, I did call it my sawed off shotgun after I put on the blast mod. (Being able to shoot it one handed is nice, but it's something that rifles can do too.)

Carbines are just one of those weird weapons that work well in the real world but don't work well in games. When you're the one running around carrying a heavy rifle all day and your fighting isn't all that long distance, then the lighter shorter barrel Carbine looks appealing. When it's your character, a rifle is good because you have range. You don't care how much your characters muscles ache at the end of the day of carring a heavy weapon.

As for the attachments, my group considered anything usable on a rifle to be usable on a carbine. In general, I'm not a huge fan of the attachments. I feel like they should be introducing more of them and I don't understand why every book doesn't have a couple attachments. I also don't like how the Augmented Spin Barrel is the best attachment because of all of the mods on it.

In my opinion, the issues isn't so much that the carbine doesn't have enough attachments, it's that there aren't enough attachments in the game.

Off the top I see..

Foregrip, multi optics, spread, telescopic (if you got the talent for it), flamer, grenade launcher, missile launcher (DC), weapon harness and sling (base modifier no help, but the mods are) and superior.

And you can get the pistol conversion kit too....

So I count 9 and a conversion kit.

A lot of those mods work on "ranged (heavy) rifle sized weapons" which a carbine totally is.

Carpe, forgot gene lock and laser sight...

Well first, I can tell you that blaster carbines have (as long as I can remember) had the place of the "thug's weapon." They're easy to use and conveniently sized to dish out a good amount of damage, but are considered less refined than a pistol or rifle. They're sort the "everyman's" blaster, popular with espos and stormtroopers.

Secondly, the versatility of a carbine is due to a shorter barrel than that of a rifle, and also some carbines (like the E-11) have been built to have folding stocks. This means that they are lighter weight, more easily concealed, and able to be used in one hand (if the stock folds). But for these advantages, they trade range and ease of modification. Any barrel attachment that can be applied to a rifle wouldn't really be appropriate on a carbine, due to the shorter barrel.

Unless I'm missing something, the only two attachments in the Core Rulebook that rifles CAN have and carbines CAN'T are the augmented spin barrel and the marksman barrel. And this is simply due to the nature of the carbine.

You want a marksman weapon, you've gotta deal with the longer barrel...you trade versality for accuracy.

That being said . . . did Blaster Carbines get the shaft?

Yes, but not for the reason you stated.

They are simply too expensive to be worth investing in. For another 50 cR you can have a rifle which has better range and damage. The CBA does not support carbines.

Make whatever you like, I'm of a mind if the rules are getting in the way of fun over relatively small things, then hand wave the dumb ol rule away. Squads and Squadrons rules let you protect Nemesis' and players alike with a meat shield. It allows awesome weapons to be used.

I made cool Mandalorian assault carbines for my guys that had a Linked and Blast select fire feature on them. They loved em. Point is don't ever let some obscure rule minutiae get in the way of doing something fun. If it isn't totally game breaking just do it. If there was some attachment one of my guys wanted on their carbine in the book I'd just allow it, all they're going to do is carry a rifle instead and be sad they can't live the character concept they wanted to so what's the point of that?

I agree with 2P51. Even though there are sensical justifications for why you can't apply the Marksman barrel to the carbine, it's not gonna break your game either way. I would talk to the GM, show him how balanced and non-game-breaking you think it is, and see if he lets you run with it.

That being said . . . did Blaster Carbines get the shaft?

Yes, but not for the reason you stated.

They are simply too expensive to be worth investing in. For another 50 cR you can have a rifle which has better range and damage. The CBA does not support carbines.

You are going through a jungle to a long lost jedi temple.

In the jungle itself shots at targets At long range and farther get an automatic 2 setback due to all the vegitation.

Inside the temple there's not going to be many long range fights, because its a building.

Was your 50 credits well spent, or would you rather have been able to carry a grenade?

Was your 50 credits well spent, or would you rather have been able to carry a grenade?

While you were deciding this, a Wookiee with a ryyk blade came hurtling out of the jungle and decapitated you.

Sorry.

Was your 50 credits well spent, or would you rather have been able to carry a grenade?

While you were deciding this, a Wookiee with a ryyk blade and hurtling out of the jungle and decapitated you.

Sorry.

Man, I forgot how brutal choose your own adventures are...

I apply situational penalties to various weapons all the time. Mostly because it knocks the PC's mindset out of 'one tool for every job' kind of problems I'm seeing.

Big advantage of the carbine was the fact you can use it onboard things like starships, shoot it out the window of a speeder, confined corridors, small rooms and the like, but still have the full power thump of a rifle and not be too concerned about range.

Rifles are unweildy, (not mechanically in game) but if you get a 5ft long stick, stand through a doorway with it, then spin around to engage a threat from behind you, you'll soon see why a 3ft long stick is easier to use. Heavy rifles and light repeaters are even worse as they're also upwards of 6ft+ long and have quite a lot of mass to them to swing around.

So I quite happily give them +1 or 2 black dice, sometimes a full upgrade in difficulty depending on the weapon and the conditions its being used in

I really wish that the Pistol Grip from Dangerous Covenants didn't work with full-sized rifles and was limited to carbines only. It would give carbines a niche as the "big gun" for Ranged (Light) characters.

BTW, I go with the AoR version of the carbine where it does not have special rules for one-handed use. If you want to use it one-handed, get the Pistol Grip.

Just thinking about it a bit more, most of the more ranged-oriented PC's want autofire, which none of the carbines have. So there's a gap in the armoury for something akin to the submachinegun. There's a couple of the machine-pistol types which are sidearms with autofire, but a fairly big gap otherwise until you get into the heavier rifles.

Just thinking about it a bit more, most of the more ranged-oriented PC's want autofire, which none of the carbines have. So there's a gap in the armoury for something akin to the submachinegun. There's a couple of the machine-pistol types which are sidearms with autofire, but a fairly big gap otherwise until you get into the heavier rifles.

Check out the SMG-like weapon used by the CSA Espos in the EotE antagonists section of the rulebook.

The main benefit of a Blaster Carbine to me is that, as GM, I don't let my characters wander around civilized locations with a 6ft Heavy Blaster Rifle or Sniper Rifle strapped across their back. If they want to remain incognito and unmolested by local law enforcement, but still want a decent Ranged Heavy weapon, that means a Carbine, complete with folder stock and underarm sling, hidden underneath a jacket. Semi-civilized and uncivilized locations, a full-sized long arm may be acceptable, but a short weapon might be preferable to maintain cover/surprise.

I've had it work for my character's advantage - they were ambushed by thugs carrying blaster pistols who were greatly surprised when half the PCs drew carbines from under their jackets and opened up on them.

Carbines are just one of those weird weapons that work well in the real world but don't work well in games.

I know this point has been put forward a few times, but I think it something worth noting.

This is a narrative game and the GM should be looking at the implications of weapon size in certain settings. So a long barreled Rifle does have more range and in open situations it will give an advantage, but it should have a disadvantage at close quarters. You need to consider that will be the normal distance of combat. (Real World Example: Carbines/Bullpup weapons have become popular because of what distances combat actually happens. We are talking 2-50 yards for most situations and most snipers engage between 75-300. That is why the Switch from the M16 to the M4 for the US Military. Basic action is the same and while the M16 has better distance from a longer barrel it is far more unwieldy in close quarters. That is also why snipers and designated Marksmen get to use different equipment then what is standard issue.) So for the game I would look at where most combat would be held. In an urban environment, a star ship, space station, indoors (including temples, underground bases, etc..). So unless you are in hand to hand, an open expanse, or special situations - Most of your range for combat will be short to medium with the possibility of cover. I would even touch on the edge of long depending on where it is taking place. That said, your campaign might be in vast open settings out in a frontier environment and a rifle would be a more practical choice. Look at it from the Narrative vs the basic mechanics.

As for the Marksman Barrel. I could easily see a specialized one designed for a carbine. To specifically extend its range and the barrel, but would not dramatically increase the size. Size increase of a few inches to a foot (a foot being a significant increase). I would also increase the cost and consider requiring a stock to be added for the weapon. Which would really be more like a Marksman Quality Upgrade for a carbine than just adding the Marksman barrel. Now the increase in range could be a limited special quality. Something that is useful but does not replace the practicality of a rifle at longer distance.

I feel like I want to agree with you, but I got a little lost in the body of your post. If you have the time, maybe a summary would be helpful?

This is a narrative game and the GM should be looking at the implications of weapon size in certain settings. So a long barreled Rifle does have more range and in open situations it will give an advantage, but it should have a disadvantage at close quarters.

There is a mechanical implication of weapon size. Ranged Light weapons are +1 difficulty when an enemy is within Engaged ranged and Ranged Heavy weapons are +2 difficulty. The issue is that there isn't granularity to depict the difference between a carbine and a 2 meter long sniper rifle while Engaged.

Or are you considering "close quarters" to extend out to short range? In that case, anything you do to give an advantage to carbines you'll have to give to pistols as well, since they are the king of the close in situations.

As for the Marksman Barrel. I could easily see a specialized one designed for a carbine. To specifically extend its range and the barrel, but would not dramatically increase the size. Size increase of a few inches to a foot (a foot being a significant increase). I would also increase the cost and consider requiring a stock to be added for the weapon.

This would be great. The 2 meter long Marksman Barrel is rather silly.

Anything

This is a narrative game and the GM should be looking at the implications of weapon size in certain settings. So a long barreled Rifle does have more range and in open situations it will give an advantage, but it should have a disadvantage at close quarters.

There is a mechanical implication of weapon size. Ranged Light weapons are +1 difficulty when an enemy is within Engaged ranged and Ranged Heavy weapons are +2 difficulty. The issue is that there isn't granularity to depict the difference between a carbine and a 2 meter long sniper rifle while Engaged.

Or are you considering "close quarters" to extend out to short range? In that case, anything you do to give an advantage to carbines you'll have to give to pistols as well, since they are the king of the close in situations.

Yes I would consider close quarters as going into short range. As for Pistols, Yes I would give them the same in those situations.

As for King of CQB that is one of those debates that I always end up just saying it is a Personal Choice on weapons. I will throw out that no matter what you prefer as your main CQB weapon. A Pistol and/or Blade should be a backup.

Awayputurwpn,

sorry for the delay in my reply.

Basically because it certain factors are so heavily narrative based. That the advantage a Rifle has over a Carbine in range is only practical in certain situations. In most situations a carbine will be more than enough. You have to consider the distance combat will be in. For the most part Short and Medium would cover that for most situations. That is why even the Empire goes with a carbine as its standard issue weapon.

The last part was aimed at the Marksman barrel - which for a carbine should be something more as a weapons upgrade that gives qualities that will allow for a longer range shot. Not necessarily making it as good as a rifle at distance, but just a tad more capable.