So I don't have the CRB yet, just the beginner game stuff, so this may be a moot question, but I was thinking. The GM currently spends Destiny Points to upgrade rolls, as far as I can tell, while the Players can upgrade rolls or Deus Ex Machina some things.

For example, you land on a planet with a toxic atmosphere, and bam, you have no breathers. Flip a DP and now you do.

My thoughts are, why can't the GM do something similar? Case in point. GM: You finally catch up to the smugglers as they're making the exchange on the open plain. This looks like a perfect chance for an ambush. Player: Ok, this should be a piece of cake as long as they don't have BLANK. GM flips DP. GM: Funny you should mention that.

Hope that's clear. Thoughts? Would it be acceptable to use DSDP (Dark Side DP) to make things just that little bit worse for your players? In the interest of enhancing the story, of course.

Well as the GM you can already do that as you control the whole game setting more or less.

We in our group actually have a term for just that situation when the players mention something worse than it actually is, especially when they remember details wrong. We call it a "black obelisk". It's when the GM changes the fact around a detail to the worse for the players because one or more of them remembered a detail worse then it actually was.

But back to your question. Yes I see no wrong with using your GM powers to make something worse and giving back a DP to the players for the trouble.

Yeah, I have to say I do that all the time without spending destiny. As the GM, unless we're running a pre-written adventure that the players will look at later, they'll never know whether I had it planned or not. Now, I obviously don't do these things where it will be obvious that I threw it in there just because someone thought of it, and I definitely don't abuse this power just to screw over players. When a situation calls for it, I often throw additional setbacks into the mix just to make it interesting...even if I didn't think of it until someone mentioned it. Just don't be obvious about it and don't do it every time someone mentions something. Flipping a destiny point to do it makes it pretty obvious that you're throwing it in there unplanned - expect players to keep their mouths shut about possible setbacks in the future.

Keep in mind that the GM's ability to upgrade dice is often more powerful than the players'. Adding a chance for despair on rolls that usually have none (e.g., most combat checks) is a big deal even if it's only a 1 in 12 chance. Also, remember that when upgrading a pool, whether by destiny point or other method, if there are not enough dice of the appropriate type to upgrade, you add an additional die instead. So, if you take a ranged attack at short range against an unengaged nemesis with Adversary 1, it's a difficulty 1 with 1 upgrade (i.e., 1 red 0 purple). If the GM spends a destiny point to upgrade the difficulty, you add a purple. Sort of a big deal.

I want to give my own a really special use

My player's character is a really powerful Jedi Master that, with 6 more people, captured Darth Vader. He's a Light Side Paragon, so, he starts with one extra Destiny Point. My idea is the next one:

If in a session, at the beginning, he gets 2 DP (for a total of 3 thanks to Paragon) and he spends the 3 DP, I will use the 3 DP to create an history event and Vader will release. I will do that at the end of the session and I want to put a music linked to the dark side/Empire and end the session saying something like "He's free, he's angry... and he is looking for you..." I will end using the soundboard from Starwars.com using Vader's breathing... OH YEAH! XDD

This new encounter would be REALLY different thanks to Parry/Reflect rules... I'm awaiting for that

Oh that's actually a good point, I never thought of it that way. Would it be interesting to use them to show the balance of luck really not going their way? Like, if there 'just happened' to be a Tie Fighter patrol that was passing by right at the moment they run out of cover?

I'm just wondering if there's more interesting ways for the GM to use DP with the players to enhance the narrative story aspect, not just the mechanical aspect. Seems like it would give the pool a bit more back and forth and some more weight to it.

I'm just wondering if there's more interesting ways for the GM to use DP with the players to enhance the narrative story aspect, not just the mechanical aspect. Seems like it would give the pool a bit more back and forth and some more weight to it.

Again, as the GM it's part of your job to enhance the narrative aspect. You don't need Destiny Points to do it. You want a wandering TIE patrol to make things more interesting? Say it, and it will be so. Using a mechanic like Destiny Points just limits your abilities, because if you use up all your dark side points and the players elect not to use any of their light side points, then suddenly the game won't be interesting anymore.

I typically use it to upgrade/downgrade dice pools. Typically the only time that I actually spend a destiny point to introduce some terrible affect or a fact is when the PCs have no destiny points on their side and I feel the need to help them out.

Ok I suppose that makes more sense. I was really looking for an alternative so that there's more flow in the DP system. Idk, I'll have to play with it some more, see how it works with my players. Interesting discussion though.

Ok I suppose that makes more sense. I was really looking for an alternative so that there's more flow in the DP system. Idk, I'll have to play with it some more, see how it works with my players. Interesting discussion though.

The best way to encourage flow is to use Destiny Points as directed. Bump up the difficulty of a few checks, not because you want the group to fail but because you want to see how they'll react to Threat or Despair.

So I don't have the CRB yet, just the beginner game stuff, so this may be a moot question, but I was thinking. The GM currently spends Destiny Points to upgrade rolls, as far as I can tell, while the Players can upgrade rolls or Deus Ex Machina some things.

For example, you land on a planet with a toxic atmosphere, and bam, you have no breathers. Flip a DP and now you do.

My thoughts are, why can't the GM do something similar? Case in point. GM: You finally catch up to the smugglers as they're making the exchange on the open plain. This looks like a perfect chance for an ambush. Player: Ok, this should be a piece of cake as long as they don't have BLANK. GM flips DP. GM: Funny you should mention that.

Hope that's clear. Thoughts? Would it be acceptable to use DSDP (Dark Side DP) to make things just that little bit worse for your players? In the interest of enhancing the story, of course.

Yes, it seemed a little weird to me that I as GM should use Destiny Points to determine what they come up against when that is something I already do.

But I found a mindset that actually works quite well for it. As a GM I am very much in the Independent Universe school of thought. That is to say if the PCs break into a bank, it will have the sort of security I think is appropriate to that bank, not what will just happen to provide an level appropriate challenge to the players. In fact, you can spot my sort of GM very easily because we start looking like we want to kill something at the very phrase "level appropriate". Our neutrality and our desire to make a universe that makes sense independently of the players, are a compulsion with us.

The relevance of this to Destiny Points? I have integrated them into my mindset as my "Bias Counter". They are something that tells me when to actively be punitive toward the players. And interestingly, it's very satisfying to do so.

Perversely enough, the GM's that DPs will work least well for, are those GMs that are already building their world around the PC's capabilities.

In my first campign, my DM did that regularly. Whenever we had thought outside the box, he popped a DS point and we got a new challenge. I actually like it. Not because it's necessary for balance or anything, but because it keeps the points flipping. With four or more players to one DM, it's -very- easy to use up all the LS points -- especially if it's a crucial time or there are a few players who don't really understand their value and use them on what should be mundane checks. This is another method for the DM to give the players more options while making the overall gameplay more interesting without using "DM Cheat Codes". In fact, I'd go so far as saying that this is a mechanic that makes the DM pay for using his omnipotence. Which I think balances things nicely.

I usually use them for "dark moments" when i want to communicate the feeling of destiny conspiring against them.

For instance, once the events of a previous sessions culminated in the assassination of a PC sister. At the beginning of the session where the NPC died i just flipped a dark side point and said "you feel a grim disturbance in the force".

I think a decent use for GM Destiny points is for those moments where you want to be a jerk for the sake of the story. For example, if a character has a particular enemy and you want to orchestrate a one-on-one face-off, flip a destiny point to have him split off from the rest of the party. Either he takes a wrong turn or the floor gives way under him specifically. Something that the players might say, "Dude, that's a cheap shot!" Then you can say, "Well I spent a Destiny Point for it, you can either see where it's going or you can spend one of your own to negate it." As long as you don't have your heart set on that particular encounter, you can let the player decide.

Wow these are all fantastic ideas. I'll have to keep them in mind when I start our campaign next month.

I really like the idea of building a believable world and then using DP as a 'luck gauge' of sorts, or even to make crappy things happen to specific players. That's quite clever.

Thanks guys, these are really useful, I wanted another use for DP with the idea of collaborative story telling going on, these suggestions are most helpful.

I tried to break out of my comfort zone a bit more last night and used my DPs to cause a few events that were not planned including the premature and untimely arrival of allied reinforcements. A few rounds later I spent another DP to summon some Anti-Air troops.

How'd it go, if you don't mind my asking. Results? Responses?

It went well, the players knew why I was using a destiny point and they could see the narrative and in-game affect.

The transport was supposed to come in 10 minutes, but it came in 5 and the LZ wasn't clear. I can see it being beneficial in a lot of circumstances.

EDIT: It also adds flexibility for any events that you hadn't planned but want to introduce, especially an event that the PCs may need some extra help in overcoming.

The way I look at it, of course the GM has the option to throw anything they want at the PCs without having to 'spend' a resource like Destiny Points to do it.

But I think it's fun to use the flipping of the Destiny Point as a kind of dramatic gesture to say "and NOW things are getting even harder!"

And then the PCs have more of their own Destiny Point resource to spend in response to whatever just happened.

The way I look at it, of course the GM has the option to throw anything they want at the PCs without having to 'spend' a resource like Destiny Points to do it.

But I think it's fun to use the flipping of the Destiny Point as a kind of dramatic gesture to say "and NOW things are getting even harder!"

I think of it more as a conciliation gesture. "Hey, I'm about to screw you guys, here's a little extra ammo in case you need it because this next encounter is going to be insane."

I use them for all of these reasons:

-- upgrade the check when the players have an otherwise easy roll (because of stats and lack of pressure), but failure would have interesting narrative consequences

-- upgrade a check in advance of a time when I know they'll want all the points they can get

-- upgrade a number of checks when they don't have any points of their own (I notice they get very miserly when they are down to one)

I haven't done this yet, but I bet I could also use them as something similar to the WFRP 3e progress meters: start them off all light side, and have them grow dark as time runs out. Both sides can still spend them too, but predetermined events made the situation more desperate.

Okay, here's a question for you guys - how does a GM's destiny point affect a roll where everyone is rolling for a task. Lets say the group is rolling to find someone hidden in a room and I flip a point. Does just one person's roll get upgraded or would everyone get a red die?

Now if it's a combat check or something, then yeah - one point, one player, one die. But when it's a group activity of some sort?

Okay, here's a question for you guys - how does a GM's destiny point affect a roll where everyone is rolling for a task. Lets say the group is rolling to find someone hidden in a room and I flip a point. Does just one person's roll get upgraded or would everyone get a red die?

Now if it's a combat check or something, then yeah - one point, one player, one die. But when it's a group activity of some sort?

If everyone is checking against the same dice pool I would say everyone rolls against the upgrade myself.

That's kind of what I figured - but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a paragraph somewhere.

Each PC can apply any talents for influencing the base difficulty you set when they make their rolls. They could all choose to burn a DP each as well if they like and they have them to spare.

Instead of letting all the players roll each of them a separate roll, which will mean lots of crazy stuff happening. I usually let one player make a combined roll, assisted by the others. Perception for instance i best perception + best cunning + some boost die from the other PCs. So in this instance it's quite clear what to do with DP usage from my side.

On the other side, on those rolls that i let the players make separate from one another, I use one dp per roll if i want to upgrade more then one difficulty pool.