I "love" how much most of you guys ignored my actual point. It's kind of funny really.
Also, most of you ignored that thw developers actually felt the same as me, and that is why F&D actually have basically what I was looking for (thanks for those who suggested that!)
I "love" how much most of you guys ignored my actual point. It's kind of funny really.
Also, most of you ignored that thw developers actually felt the same as me, and that is why F&D actually have basically what I was looking for (thanks for those who suggested that!)
Or you kind of ignored that we told you what you want is already there. In many different ways. IF you apply it narratively.
No, I did not ignore that, I said that I disagree, and I explained why. You ignored that explanation.
How many different style punches have you thrown? Tell me what is the difference between them other than the description? Do the same for kicks and throws.
The problem is when it comes down to it there really is not much difference between different throws, punches, and kicks. Much of those differences can be covered by using the right talents that exist. But for the most part punches from all the different arts do not really amount to much more than a difference in how they are thrown. Not what they actually do. A Karate punch and a Boxing punch are not really that different. An Aikido throw and a judo throw are not that different. Target ends up prone. The how of the throw is narrative not mechanical. this system is not granular enough to cover the differences of a few hundred foot pounds of force.
I disagree with the "description is god" method. Martial arts are more than just Brawl&Brawn. They are what makes a fighter "different" from another fighter. Thing is, AoR sort of come with it's own "martial arts", sure that are called career specializations, and they are mostly firearm martial arts, but the basic idea stays: they are what makes you fight like you, and not like someone else.
So yeah, sure, descriptions are great and important, but there is a very good reason why White Wolf added Martial Arts to their New World of Darkness. Somone who fights using Krav Maga should feel different than somone using Karate. Not just Description-wise, but also mechanic wise.
You do realize that Krav Maga is a martial art that is a conglomeration of many different martial arts, Right? Someone who fights Krav Maga is really not that different from other martial arts.
and again They do feel different if you DESCRIBE them different. But at the end of the day it is still a unarmed strike backed up by a brawl skill roll. I can agree with a talent to allow agility instead of brawn. But the punch, throwm and kick rules are fine and cover things just fine.
How many different style punches have you thrown? Tell me what is the difference between them other than the description? Do the same for kicks and throws.
A few, actually, also punches, kicks, and throws are VERY different from one another. Also, lets not ignore dodges, counters, drops, locks, and many, many other cool things.
But that was NOT my point. I never said I want the different punches to use different rules. What I said was that Kung Fu, Krav Maga, Capoeira, and other such martial arts should feel different, nut just via narrative, but also mechanically. NOT the punches! The Martial Arts themselves. Same way, an Assassin and a Bodyguard feel different via the mechanics.
The funny thing is that you think you "defend" the system, while in truth, even the guys at FFG agree with me, hence why in F&D there are 6 different specialization for lightsabre fighting. Each with it's own very unique talents and feel. if we went with your logic, we could have said "how many different stabs and slashes are there?", but that's not me, ot the guys who wrote F&D think like. We think like "ok, so this is a martial art that focus mainly on defense, and going to have a lot of talents that help with that, and this one is focused mainly on controling the pace of the combat, so lets give it some talents that help with that"... and so on.
Where in any of what I wrote I asked for a change for the rules for But the punch, throwm and kick rules are fine and cover things just fine" ?
You make martial arts feel different by describing them different. And taking different talents that ALREADY exist.
I don't think we need a whole bunch of new talent trees to get a different feel. All we really need is a single unarmed combat tree. One that would have a talent for switching Brawl from Brawn to Agility.
And, like I said, me and the guys ar FFG think you are wrong, so there
Lightsabers and their forms are the martial arts of Star Wars hence why we have the multiple specs. We might see a martial arts spec at some point in a supplement but I would be surprised if we got something more than a Tera Kasi (sp) spec. Till then you can always make do or homebrew.
Lightsabers and their forms are the martial arts of Star Wars hence why we have the multiple specs. We might see a martial arts spec at some point in a supplement but I would be surprised if we got something more than a Tera Kasi (sp) spec. Till then you can always make do or homebrew.
It's true, and it's fine. Its VERY easy to take the Lightsabre specs from F&D and use them for other things and/or create others on the same line. For the Star Wars setting, I assume more Martial Arts will come out with sourcebooks, probobly for AoR and F&D
And, like I said, me and the guys ar FFG think you are wrong, so there
Since FFG hasn't said word one on martial arts styles, that's a pretty large assumption on your part to speak on their behalf.
It's likely that one of the leading reasons the Lightsaber Forms got broken out into different specializations was to ensure that each of the six careers had a specialization that could be proficient with a lightsaber. A long time back, DarthGM put together a homebrew Jedi supplement that condensed the Forms into three non-career specializations based on their over all theme: Fast (Ataru, Soresu, Makashi), Balanced (Shii-Cho, Niman, Jar'Kai) and Strong (Djem So, Shien, Juyo/Vaapad), and the only reason it wasn't made into a single spec was game balance reasons, as a few folks have tried a "one stop shopping" for pure lightsaber mastery and they turned out to be pretty **** broketastic.
However, the Lightsaber Forms draw not from empty-hand martial arts styles, but instead from armed combat styles. There's a world of difference between kendo (primary basis for what in the Original Trilogy would later be labeled as Form 1 and Form V) and classical fencing (basis for Form II as Christopher Lee is himself a skilled fencer and brought that to the role of Count Dooku), even if they both of the same element of "hit the other guy with your weapon."
There's also the major difference in that the Lightsaber Forms are a fully-fleshed out part of the Star Wars lore, and one that most fans are generally familiar with. Empty-hand martial arts simply aren't, with Teras Kasi starting as a throwaway tag in Shadows of the Empire before gaining some traction due to a 90's fighting game. Most Star Wars fans wouldn't know the other styles of martial arts that cropped up in Star Wars (again primarily as throw away mentions) without having to visit Wookieepedia for the answers, and even then there's very little in the way of lore or background on those styles. I know because I researched those as best I could when working on the Martial Arts feats and Martial Arts Master for Saga Edition's Galaxy at War supplement (my name is listed under "Additional Design" in the credits). Heck, the Wookieepedia articles even draw upon what I wrote in describing a number of those styles and list Galaxy at War as a reference point, as beyond Teras Kasi there wasn't much of anything beforehand.
No, I did not ignore that, I said that I disagree, and I explained why. You ignored that explanation.
Not ignored, simply disagreed with, and we explained why. Disagree != Ignore, a concept you seem to only understand from your side.
I doubt FFG agrees with you when it comes to martial arts. They created various styles for lightsabers because that's part of the lore, and they split them into the various trees to reflect how long it takes for a Jedi to really be able to call themselves that. Martial arts, all references to EU crap notwithstanding, doesn't have anywhere close to that level of lore or interest. So they *might* make a single "martial arts" spec in future (and I have no idea which career it would fit under), but then the style differentiations will remain descriptive. In the end I think it's completely unnecessary.
Last I checked, Kendo and French Fencing (the type of fencing used by Christopher Lee), are both considered Martial Arts.The fact some Martial Arts arts are focused on armed fighting and some are focused on unarmed, doesn't change their existence as such.
Last I checked, Kendo and French Fencing (the type of fencing used by Christopher Lee), are both considered Martial Arts.The fact some Martial Arts arts are focused on armed fighting and some are focused on unarmed, doesn't change their existence as such.
Pretty much any form of regimented combat methodology qualifies as a "martial art" no matter what the weapon is. There are probably "martial arts" based around using a handgun in close quarters combat and not just to shoot someone with.
None of that means that FFG is under any obligation to create numerous specs, or any specs really, that focus on the different combat styles in the Star Wars setting. The Lightsaber Forms are the primary exception for two reasons, both of which I've noted above (making sure each career in Force and Destiny gets one for game balance reasons, and it's got plenty of lore behind it). Han Solo (shoot from the hip gunslinger) and Captain Tanaka (practiced military marksman) or B1 battle droids and storm troopers each had different ways of attacking with ranged weapons, but by what passes for your logic, there should be separate specs to account for each of them rather than simply chalking up the differences to narrative descriptions of Ranged: Light (Han and Panaka) or Ranged: Heavy (droids and troopers).
You can ignore what folks are saying until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't really change the fact that as things stand, invoking martial arts of the type you cited in your initial post can be covered with existing material just fine, as the bulk of it is simply flavor text for how the attack roll works out.
question: does any spec in any of the three games besides doctor get access to pressure point? So far I think the answer is "no"
question: does any spec in any of the three games besides doctor get access to pressure point? So far I think the answer is "no"
Currently not, but I think part of the rationale for Doctor having such a talent is based on the old adage that a healer knows just as many ways to take you apart as they do to put you back together. They have made a rather through study of the body as part of their training, identifying where the weak spots are; while said training is meant to help them treat injuries caused by exploiting those weak spots, it's only the surgeon's own morals that would prevent them from exploiting those same weak spots in a fight.
A prime example of this occurred in one of the later books of the Dresden Files series, where timid little Doctor Waldo Butters, a Jewish medical examiner pretty thoroughly gimped a lesser bad guy by exploiting one of those "weak points" and then explaining in fairly clinical detail what sort of damage he'd done and how much more damage the little guy (he's barely any taller than Karrin Murphy and not even remotely as fierce) could do if necessary. Granted, Butters used a heavy wrench (he's described as not being the least bit brawny) in that scene, but the basic theory still applies to Doctor and Pressure Point.
A similar effect can be achieved for a martial artist already through a combination of Deadly Accuracy and Feral Strength. Pressure Point as a talent is largely there to help give the Doctor some teeth.
I didn't read the entire post... but Star Wars has a martial arts, it's called Teras Kasi.
I didn't read the entire post... but Star Wars has a martial arts, it's called Teras Kasi.
This was indeed already addressed
For the good of the order, a list of all martial arts styles in the Star Wars universe:
So, I have read these posts, and they all have their merits, so here is an entirely separate question, though I think it might fall under this post. How would I help build a Monk like character?
I like Colonist: Doctor + Marauder (from Hired Gun) [+, perhaps, Performer - also from Colonist - for Martial Arts flair]
If Marauder is too brutal for your taste, have a look at Infiltrator (from AoR's Spy). You may want to ask your GM if you can take Brawl as a career skill instead of Melee if you go this route, of course.
Edited by Col. OrangeOr if you want a more "mystical" martial artist...Warrior-Shii-Cho Knight and then into other specs like Seer, Advisor, Peacekeeper or whatever to flavour.
Or if you want a more "mystical" martial artist...Warrior-Shii-Cho Knight and then into other specs like Seer, Advisor, Peacekeeper or whatever to flavour.
Or better yet, Warden from Keeping the Peace, which focuses on brawl and precision strikes. With a little coercion based skills for added effect.
Combine Warden with Soresu Defender or Shii-Cho Knight for the ranks in Parry, and get your hands on some cortosis gauntlets and you could go actually conceivably go fist to lightsaber in a fight.
The enchani arts are mentioned in the book "The Perfect Weapon", so that at least is canon now. I think it's a reasonable candidate for a future F&D spec.