How do you deal with criticals caused by personal scale weapons on vehicles? And qualities like vicious, talents like lethal blows etc? Do they all apply?

I think the more important question is how do personal scale weapons actually manage to damage a vehicle? In most cases, they can’t.

Vehicles little or no armor, could be damaged, and I would expect all the standard rules to apply — after taking into consideration that ten points of personal scale damage equals just one point of vehicle scale damage.

If the vehicle has just one point of armor and the attacker manages to do eleven points of personal scale damage, then that 0.1 point of vehicle scale damage actually gets through the armor and can do crits and other damage as normal.

I think the more important question is how do personal scale weapons actually manage to damage a vehicle? In most cases, they can’t.

Vehicles little or no armor, could be damaged, and I would expect all the standard rules to apply — after taking into consideration that ten points of personal scale damage equals just one point of vehicle scale damage.

If the vehicle has just one point of armor and the attacker manages to do eleven points of personal scale damage, then that 0.1 point of vehicle scale damage actually gets through the armor and can do crits and other damage as normal.

If you houserule the fractional damage. Else you have to do 20 damage to a 1 armor target to get 1 point through.

Many vehicles, especially civilian don't have any armour, just HT. And with high-level character it is not that uncommon to deal around 15 dmg per attack. And yes, I allow fractional damage - when needed I de-scale vehicles and for example 2HT becomes 20 WT.

Now let's say that someone hits a landspeeder with 0 armour and 2ht with an vibroax, dealing 12 dmg and +70 crit (vicious, lethal blows etc). My question was do lethal blows and vicious apply to vehicle damage.

This is especially interesting with Lethal Blows, which can come to play also in gunnery attacks.

A Sharpshooter (AoR) with multiple ranks of True Aim and Lethal Blows would be a heck of a gunner, then.

EDIT: Away from book, but from Doc, the Weasel 's excellent talent tree PDFs :

Lethal Blows

Exactly. So I'm curious how does the Community of Fellow Players and Game Masters see it

A Sharpshooter (AoR) with multiple ranks of True Aim and Lethal Blows would be a heck of a gunner, then.

EDIT: Away from book, but from Doc, the Weasel 's excellent talent tree PDFs :

Lethal Blows

Add +10 per rank of Lethal Blows to any Critical Injury result inflicted on opponents.

(emphasis mine)

I can't be sure but I doubt the critical effects on a vehicle are called "injuries".

According to the rules, vehicles don’t take critical injuries but critical hits. So, we can assume that vehicles are immune to critical injuries. This leaves us with the issue that vehicles and characters/creatures are two separate realms, even a rancor can’t damage an AT-ST.

http://techgnotic.deviantart.com/art/Monsters-294457654

I know, the picture is not canon, but it's cool.

I have a question about how to handle situations from the movies like when Luke cut off the front steering stabilizer on the Speeder bike on Endor in RotJ. I'm guessing he Crits the bike and got a "Tailspin" result. Which caused the bike to collide with a tree and suffer yet another crit! I have always wondered how to handle this stuff. Like when a player says he wants to do what Luke did on Hoth and take out an AT-AT with a anti vehicle mine by opening a hatch and throwing it in! I don't want it to be as easy as it looked in the movie, because then the players just want to do it all the time, and not just to AT-ATs but in rooms and buildings also. Any advice on handling Crits with Character scale weapons, when they do enough to damage them and get a Crit? I want my players to be able to attempt all the wild and crazy things they can imagine its fun! But at the same time I don't want to unbalance the game.

Excuse me if I restate some of what others state, but here are all the relevant rules to the Luke Skywalker vs. Speeder Bike scenario:

• One point of armor is equivalent to ten points of soak (p. 226)
• One point of Hull Trauma Threshold equals ten wounds on an individual (p. 225)
• Lightsabers have Breach 1: Ignore one point of armor (or 10 points of soak) for every rating (p. 155)
• Lightsabers have Vicious 2: When this weapon scores a critical injury or hit, add ten times the rating to the critical roll. The "or" is because this characteristic can apply to both personal-scale and vehicle/starship weaponry.
• Critical Rating for personal-scale weapons: "Indicates the number of [advantage] to trigger Critical Injuries using this weapon." (p. 158) Goes on to say "A Critical Injury can only be triggered on a successful hit that deals damage that exceeds the target's soak." However, no mention of critical hits in the personal weapon charateristics vice the Critical Hit Rating for starship weapons on p. 228.
• Critical Hits section (p. 243): "Remember, an attack's damage also has to exceed a target's armor to deal a Critical Hit, which is important when firing small arms at something using armor instead of soak."
• Lethal blows "adds +10 per rank...to any Critical Injury rolls.." (p. 138), so as stated above, this does not apply against vehicles/starships in my opinion.

Analysis: In the strictest sense of RAW, using the terms of Critcal Injury and Critical Hit as exclusive language, personal-scale weapon cannot cause Critical Hits to vehicles. However, the sentence regarding Critical Hits and "small arms" on p. 243 leaves it open to interpretation in my mind. I would allow Critical Hits with personal-scale weapons (including use of the vicious quality but not lethal blows...personal opinion) as long as the hit deals enough damage to exceed the armor times ten (converting to soak).

. Like when a player says he wants to do what Luke did on Hoth and take out an AT-AT with a anti vehicle mine by opening a hatch and throwing it in! I don't want it to be as easy as it looked in the movie, because then the players just want to do it all the time, and not just to AT-ATs but in rooms and buildings also.

The way I handle stuff like that is to work the narrative.

So skipping the whole batman grappling hook thing and getting right to the meat:

Mark says he wants to have his character Luke cut open a hatch. Now, a hatch isn't all that tough, so I scale the attack down to the item.

The hatch's latch is essentially an armored door and lock. So the Sil is 0 (no real issue here, but I felt I should mention) and it has Armor 1, but and HT of only 1. Difficulty is something like PP base, plus 3 setback for being dangling from the underside of a moving AT-AT in the freezing cold.

If he's got an old EotE/AoR saber it'll take only 1 success, if he's got the new FaD saber it'll take 5 success, though it's possible he modded the damage more seeing as Luke has demonstrated some technical proficiently.

Once the hatch is open he can lob the grenade inside (what kind of grenade is another debate). So it's a ranged light attack, with the same modifiers as able.

Were you go form here depends. Since it's Luke chucking the grenade inside the mechanism I'd allow it to ignore at least 1 point of armor and give it a big boost on the Crit roll. Alternately had he tossed it into the crew compartment I'd allow the attack to be resolved against the vehicle crew directly, for obvious reasons....

I think handling things like the AT AT situation as a narrative scene as well. I just don't want the players thinking an AT AT is no big deal. Even Anti vehicle mines and Rocket launchers don't really do much damage to vehicles.

Bumping this post because I have a related question...

What would happen if a vehicles executes a critical hit to a character on personal scale.

For example im planning to have the characters have access to an AtAt tank this coming Saturday in a fight vs some nemesis NPCs.

If they manage to cause a critical to the nemesis by going over the nemesis wound threshold with a vehicle weapon...what is the ruling.

I remeber reading on these these forums that when a vehicles crits causes plus 30 to the crit roll to a personal scale victim?

Remember that vehicle scale weapons do 10× Damage to creatures...

Typically, hitting a person with a vehicle scale weapon will result in an insta-kill. An Autoblaster (the weakest vehicle scale weapon) has a base damage of 3. Hitting with 1 Success is 4 ×10 = 40 damage to a person.

@Sincereagape

Now, if the person survives the damage somehow, I would just roll normally for the Crit (it's bad enough that they probably already have to roll a Crit for exceeding their Wound Threshold).

13 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

Remember that vehicle scale weapons do 10× Damage to creatures...

Typically, hitting a person with a vehicle scale weapon will result in an insta-kill. An Autoblaster (the weakest vehicle scale weapon) has a base damage of 3. Hitting with 1 Success is 4 ×10 = 40 damage to a person.

On a nemesis. Wouldn’t that just be over the wound threshold? IE: Maul is the nemesis with 21 wounds. Its gets hit with a heavy turret for 40 damage.

19 wounds over threshold and one crit for exceeding the wound threshold. Does that crit rolled get any pluses to it? Because technically maul would be lying there still alive with 19 wounds over the threshold.

@Sincereagape

I needed access to my CRB to answer that:

"...the GM should feel free to add +50 to the resulting Critical Injury roll..."

(Source: Age of Rebellion CRB, page 236 sidebar)

And this is just in regards to the automatic Critical Injury suffered by exceeding your Wound Threshold.

So you can feel justified adding +50 to any Critical Injury inflicted by a Vehicle scale weapon.

Cheers!

2 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

@Sincereagape

I needed access to my CRB to answer that:

"...the GM should feel free to add +50 to the resulting Critical Injury roll..."

(Source: Age of Rebellion CRB, page 236 sidebar)

And this is just in regards to the automatic Critical Injury suffered by exceeding your Wound Threshold.

So you can feel justified adding +50 to any Critical Injury inflicted by a Vehicle scale weapon.

Cheers!

Dankes!! This is what I was looking for.

What I do is I add +X for every point over 2xWound Threshold so that it varies based on how much damage you actually took. For example, you get hit with a turbolaser for 13x10=130 damage, if you have a WT of 15, you would add 100 to the crit roll, whereas if you get hit with an auto-blaster for 4 damage you would add 10 to the crit roll.