yes but you are already holding the blaster in your hand. which is not the same as drawing a blaster and the blaster reload and putting the reload is. That is going to take longer than pulling your blaster and pulling a reload and putting them together.

Honest question:

"Says who?"

I'm not sure where the missu

yes but you are already holding the blaster in your hand. which is not the same as drawing a blaster and the blaster reload and putting the reload is. That is going to take longer than pulling your blaster and pulling a reload and putting them together.

Honest question:

"Says who?"

Well, Drawing your weapon is a Maneuver, Reloading a weapon is a Maneuver. Unless my math skills have failed me thats two Maneuvers. If you already have your pistol drawn then Reloading is one Maneuver.

This is as I said the crux of the issue: is assembling two parts of a lightsabre akin to reloading a weapon or not? If it is then it's a Maneuver not an Incidental. I argue that putting together a weapon that is in two parts is, at the very least, the same amount of attention as taking a power cell and inserting it into a blaster. So it follows that if Drawing a weapon is one Maneuver and assembling a weapon, the equivalent of reloading, is a Maneuver then it will take a base of two Maneuvers to draw and assemble this lightsabre. I still have not seen an argument that tells us why assembling isn't a Maneuver but Reloading is.

I'm not sure where the missu

yes but you are already holding the blaster in your hand. which is not the same as drawing a blaster and the blaster reload and putting the reload is. That is going to take longer than pulling your blaster and pulling a reload and putting them together.

Honest question:

"Says who?"

Well, Drawing your weapon is a Maneuver, Reloading a weapon is a Maneuver. Unless my math skills have failed me thats two Maneuvers. If you already have your pistol drawn then Reloading is one Maneuver.

This is as I said the crux of the issue: is assembling two parts of a lightsabre akin to reloading a weapon or not? If it is then it's a Maneuver not an Incidental. I argue that putting together a weapon that is in two parts is, at the very least, the same amount of attention as taking a power cell and inserting it into a blaster. So it follows that if Drawing a weapon is one Maneuver and assembling a weapon, the equivalent of reloading, is a Maneuver then it will take a base of two Maneuvers to draw and assemble this lightsabre. I still have not seen an argument that tells us why assembling isn't a Maneuver but Reloading is.

And quick draw allows you to draw one item from your belt as an incidental. So with quickdraw you can draw one part and draw the other part and assemble as an incidental and a maneuver. Which still leaves you movement and an action for 2 strain or an action for no stain. which if you have hawkbat swoot still allows you to leap to short range and attack.

What I mean is, why must assembling the weapon take as much effort as reloading a blaster pistol? The design of such an attachment should allow for effortless assembly, much like we see Kanan doing in Rebels.

Blasters, on the other hand, are famously low-energy-consumption weapons, so their design wouldn't normally prioritize ease of reloading (although it's certainly not difficult, but it is more than an Incidental).

However, I could see an attachment allowing for a gun to be reloaded as an Incidental. And then we're back at intent of design.

What I mean is, why must assembling the weapon take as much effort as reloading a blaster pistol? The design of such an attachment should allow for effortless assembly, much like we see Kanan doing in Rebels.

Blasters, on the other hand, are famously low-energy-consumption weapons, so their design wouldn't normally prioritize ease of reloading (although it's certainly not difficult, but it is more than an Incidental).

However, I could see an attachment allowing for a gun to be reloaded as an Incidental. And then we're back at intent of design.

I respect your opinion Away, but this isn't much of an answer as to why we should hand wave the required Maneuver for assembly when something as simple as reloading an average weapon is a Maneuver in the RAW. Again you can design any Mod you want but if you are going to flirt with Munchkining it you should expect some push back.

Look, I'm open to good ideas and am willing to change my mind but you've got to throw me a bone here.

What I mean is, why must assembling the weapon take as much effort as reloading a blaster pistol? The design of such an attachment should allow for effortless assembly, much like we see Kanan doing in Rebels.

Blasters, on the other hand, are famously low-energy-consumption weapons, so their design wouldn't normally prioritize ease of reloading (although it's certainly not difficult, but it is more than an Incidental).

However, I could see an attachment allowing for a gun to be reloaded as an Incidental. And then we're back at intent of design.

Are you saying magazines for guns are not designed for effortless assembly? Because being a shooter they are. And I do not see a lightsaber assembly as being any less effort. then slapping a magazine into a weapon.

Are you saying magazines for guns are not designed for effortless assembly? Because being a shooter they are. And I do not see a lightsaber assembly as being any less effort. then slapping a magazine into a weapon.

I agree that magazines for guns are generally designed for the quick exchange, and in my mind the same would be true for light sabers that have been split into two pieces. One hand finds the other hand easily and quickly, even if you haven’t specifically trained for it with regards to weapons, etc…. If that weren’t the case, then you couldn’t easily clap at the end of a scene or act in a theater play or at the movies.

Where I think we get stuck is in how this real-world mechanic finds its way into the game.

With regards to the game, RAW say that the Quick Draw talent allows you to draw one item as an Incidental that would normally require a Maneuver. And also RAW, reloading a weapon normally takes a Maneuver, unless the rules for a particular weapon say otherwise.

So, what is it that requires this Maneuver to reload a weapon? Is it removing the object from a pouch or pocket somewhere on your person, before you insert it into the weapon?

If so, then I would think that you could have a special pocket or pouch made that would give you the Quick Draw talent with regards to removing said item and reloading the weapon. I mean, you can have special holsters made for weapons that give you the Quick Draw talent, so why not special pockets or pouches? And if you can have one special pocket or pouch made to hold one reload, or one special holster made to hold one weapon, why not multiple pockets/pouches or holsters?

If Quick Draw turns them drawing those items into incidentals, shouldn’t you be able to do as many of them as you like per turn — at least, up to a reasonable limit set by your GM, which presumably would be roughly equal to the number of otherwise unencumbered hands/arms/tentacles/whatever that you have available to you?

So, here we have Kanan with two Quick Draw holsters for the two parts of his lightsaber, and he has the Quick Draw talent himself so that he can re-assemble his lightsaber with lightning speed and with both arms held behind his back.

He can then step up onto the cargo containers, point his lightsaber at the Stormtroopers, and the stage is set for the next round.

Can anyone poke any holes in this logic?

What I see in that scene is Kanan uses a incidental to draw one part of the saber. A Manuever to grab the other part and assemble it. Spends he action as a maneuver to get on the box. The camera then switched to Agent Kalus who makes a leadership role for his minions to concentrate fire on...the Jedi.

Personally I would just take Shadowsheath and describe it as breaking the weapon down into two non-descript pieces and be done with it. Its just fluff.

I wish shadowsheath was usable for lightsabers by RAW. It would fit perfectly with a character concept I have been using for years.

Forgot about this. How is Shadowsheath not usable with a lightsaber? Per the errata “This attachment may be attached to any weapon with an Encumbrance of two or less.” I am not sure why it is not unless I missed something.

Forgot about this. How is Shadowsheath not usable with a lightsaber? Per the errata “This attachment may be attached to any weapon with an Encumbrance of two or less.” I am not sure why it is not unless I missed something.

I think I may have forgotten about that part of the beta update. There have been so many changes, this one leaked through my brain thing.

Forgot about this. How is Shadowsheath not usable with a lightsaber? Per the errata “This attachment may be attached to any weapon with an Encumbrance of two or less.” I am not sure why it is not unless I missed something.

I think I may have forgotten about that part of the beta update. There have been so many changes, this one leaked through my brain thing.

Np. Just thought maybe I was missing something in my old age (that half century mark is just around the corner).

What I see in that scene is Kanan uses a incidental to draw one part of the saber. A Manuever to grab the other part and assemble it. Spends he action as a maneuver to get on the box. The camera then switched to Agent Kalus who makes a leadership role for his minions to concentrate fire on...the Jedi.

First of all, lets take a look at the scene being discussed here:

I actually see it as 2 rounds.

First round:

Kanan uses his maneuver to close the range by moving over the box and to holster his pistol as an incidental maneuver with Quickdraw. He uses his action to activate a force power to dodge incoming fire.

Trooper minions fire and miss.

Agent Kallus uses leadership to order troops to hold fire and observes.

Round two:

Kanan draws both parts of his lightsaber using Quickdraw for one and a maneuver for the second. He then uses a second maneuver, paying 2 strain, to assemble the weapon. He then uses his action to activate a defensive force power after pointing his lightsaber in a dramatic fashion at the Imperials.

Agent Kallus uses leadership to order troops to concentrate fire on the Jedi and shoots at Kanan for his action.

Trooper minions aim and fire.

I see it as one round:

Previously, Kanan has committed one of his 3 Force Dice towards the defensive Control upgrade in the Sense power tree. At least that's what I would do when blaster bolts started flying

After Hera's turn blasting and dodging TIE fighters, Kanan opts to take the next PC slot, mentioning something about running a "Twenty-two Pickup."

Maneuver 1: At the beginning of Kanan's turn, he closes to Short range with a maneuver, holstering his pistol with the Quickdraw talent as an Incidental, narrating the effects of his currently-activated Sense defensive upgrade. He is progressing unscathed. The GM uses the opportunity, in dramatic fashion, to have the ISB agent give a hold-fire order.

Maneuver 2: Kanan then draws his lightsaber, voluntarily suffering two strain for the second maneuver. Snapping it together and igniting the blade are both incidentals.

Action: Kanan activates the Strategic Form talent, making a Hard Lightsaber (Intellect) check and scoring enough Success & Force points to make all the opponents in the area focus on only him, allowing the others to escape. We'll say he also score two Advantage with that check and chooses to recover his strain suffered earlier. Kanan takes his stance, utilizing his knowledge of Form III to present an irresistible target to his enemies.

The GM narrates: Ezra and the Wookiees look on with disbelief.

Kanan's turn ends.

At the beginning of the NPC turn, Agent Kallus tells his troopers to focus their fire "...on the Jedi." Since he is likely using squad rules with some of his minions handy, he makes the check for them, and if they succeed against Kanan's defenses, he uses his Reflect talent to effortlessly bat away the incoming fire.

At the beginning of Zeb's turn, Kanan yells, "Time to go!" And Zeb takes the Wookiees with him towards the container.

-----

All doable within a single PC's turn using the system properly.

Notice the length of this combat turn: about 30-45 seconds, well within the limits that the RAW sets out of combat rounds lasting "roughly a minute or so in time..."

Edit: keeping it to one point

[...]

Action: Kanan activates the Strategic Form talent, making a Hard Lightsaber (Intellect) check and scoring enough Success & Force points to make all the opponents in the area focus on only him, allowing the others to escape. [...]

Best example of this talent. I like it. Although if the theoretical GM/NPCs are squad rules, I suspect you'll only need to get the ISB agent's attention.

[...]

Action: Kanan activates the Strategic Form talent, making a Hard Lightsaber (Intellect) check and scoring enough Success & Force points to make all the opponents in the area focus on only him, allowing the others to escape. [...]

Best example of this talent. I like it. Although if the theoretical GM/NPCs are squad rules, I suspect you'll only need to get the ISB agent's attention.

Yeah. I counted 9 Stormtroopers, so I figured maybe Kallus had 3 on him and then maybe two more groups of 3 each. But it's kinda whatev. Kanan's a badass. Nuff said.

My Addendum:

I see it as one round:

Previously, Kanan has committed one of his 3 Force Dice towards the defensive Control upgrade in the Sense power tree. At least that's what I would do when blaster bolts started flying

After Hera's turn blasting and dodging TIE fighters, Kanan opts to take the next PC slot, mentioning something about running a "Twenty-two Pickup."

Maneuver 1: At the beginning of Kanan's turn, he closes to Short range with a maneuver, holstering his pistol with the Quickdraw talent as an Incidental, narrating the effects of his currently-activated Sense defensive upgrade. He is progressing unscathed. The GM uses the opportunity, in dramatic fashion, to have the ISB agent give a hold-fire order.

Maneuver 2a: Kanan then draws his lightsaber, voluntarily suffering two strain for the second maneuver.

Maneuver 2b: Player Drops a Destiny Point and asks the GM to allow a second use of Quickdraw, GM agrees because this is a cool moment*: Kanan then using Quickdraw again Snaps it together and ignites the blade as incidentals.

Action: Kanan activates the Strategic Form talent, making a Hard Lightsaber (Intellect) check and scoring enough Success & Force points to make all the opponents in the area focus on only him, allowing the others to escape. We'll say he also score two Advantage with that check and chooses to recover his strain suffered earlier. Kanan takes his stance, utilizing his knowledge of Form III to present an irresistible target to his enemies.

The GM narrates: Ezra and the Wookiees look on with disbelief.

Kanan's turn ends

* This is exactly what Destiny Points are for, to add the scene. Not everything has to be possible all the time, just when it matters most.

So...any other Rebels equipment you guys wanna argue about?

Nah, wouldn't want MD to have an aneurism

Not lightsaber specific, but I'd like to see a way to break down larger weapons into a number of Encumbrance 1 components that require a number of Maneuvers equal to the weapon's real Encumbrance to reassemble (so 3 maneuvers for a carbine or 4 maneuvers for a rifle).

Yeah, let's try for another 5 pages with another gimmicky weapon. Ezra's Slingshot.

Doesn't seem like that much of a gimmicky device. Looks like it is a stun only weapon.

Ezra's slingshot

Range: Short

Damage: 5

Crit: 5

Encumberance: 1

HP: 1

Special: Stun Damage, Limited Ammo (1)

Doesn't seem like that much of a gimmicky device. Looks like it is a stun only weapon.

Ezra's slingshot

Range: Short

Damage: 5

Crit: 5

Encumberance: 1

HP: 1

Special: Stun Damage, Limited Ammo (1)

And what skill should it use? It uses two hands, so Ranged (Heavy) is suggested, but that just feels wrong.

Doesn't seem like that much of a gimmicky device. Looks like it is a stun only weapon.

Ezra's slingshot

Range: Short

Damage: 5

Crit: 5

Encumberance: 1

HP: 1

Special: Stun Damage, Limited Ammo (1)

And what skill should it use? It uses two hands, so Ranged (Heavy) is suggested, but that just feels wrong.

Given the way he's shown to use it, I don't see why it wouldn't be Ranged (Light).

Doesn't seem like that much of a gimmicky device. Looks like it is a stun only weapon.

Ezra's slingshot

Range: Short

Damage: 5

Crit: 5

Encumberance: 1

HP: 1

Special: Stun Damage, Limited Ammo (1)

And what skill should it use? It uses two hands, so Ranged (Heavy) is suggested, but that just feels wrong.

Given the way he's shown to use it, I don't see why it wouldn't be Ranged (Light).

I would also get rid of the Limited Ammo since what he's shooting is a volley of energy bolts.

I'd say Ezra's slingshot would be akin to a slugthrower pistol in terms of damage and crit rating, just with the Stun Damage quality and the wrist-mounted attachment from Dangerous Covenants already built-in, or possibly something added via the Tinkerer talent to provide the weapon a hard point to use. Of the various "new weapons" the show presents, it's probably the least silly of the lot in contrast to the Inquisitor's gimmick-saber or Zeb's bo-rifle.

It doesn't take him much time to ready, he's able to fire a pretty steady stream of shots (as per "Out of Darkness" when he's pinging away the pack of fyrnocks in an attempt to cover Sabine and Hera getting aboard the Ghost) and it's shown to have some degree of effect on stormtroopers, but not very much; the Inquisitor shrugging it off entirely could be ascribed to him being a Nemesis with a very high Strain Threshold, so the few points of damage that do get past the guy's Soak would be easy to "laugh off." Only real question is the range, which I could see viable cases being made for Short or Medium range, though I'm leaning a bit more towards Medium range myself.