Im thikning of designing a new Career to the game which I've felt been missing. So far we have a few careers for PC's to choose from but I dont think that the current ones represent every possible servant of the Imperium well enough. For instance, we have the Adepts (knowledge-characters/scholars/buearocrats), Assassins (Assassins/sneaky ninja-like characters), Arbitrators (Enforcers/detectives/Police-like characters), Clerics (Clerics, priests and theologically educated characters), Guardsmen (soldiers and fighters), Imperial Psykers (Dark Heresy's version of sorcerers and wizard-type characters), Scum (criminals) and Tech-Priests (scientists and gadget users). And of course the Sororitas which are hard to prescribe a particular RPG-archetype because they are so specialised for the WH40K-universe.

Somethings missing from this line-up in my opinion. And that is the underdogs with a capital "U". Where are the Workers? You know, the slaves, the serfs, the labourers, the artists, the entertainers, the miners. Quite simply the teeming mass of under- to middleclass people?

A natural suggestion is of course to use the Scum career-path, but I dont think they fit. Scum are usually career-criminals first and perhaps underhive-worker dregs seond. And another explaination might be that workers usually do not attract such favorable attention from the Inquisition. Personally I feel that such explainations are just boring, high-class romantisizing bull. If i just think about the hard working-class of the forty-first millenium I can think of several interesting types of characters with such a modest and somewhat "unsophisticated" background. I mean just look at the Gaunts Ghosts novels for inspiration. During the war at Verghast the Ghosts inducted several members of the local militia into their own ranks. Much of the militia were nothing but modest and humble middle-hive workers from the start, before the flames of war were at their doorstep. Several of them had interesting personalities and backgrounds.

I want a working class careerpath for Dark Heresy, but alas it does not exist yet. So I'll try to create one myself. But in this endavour I need help from other DH-players and gamemasters alike, in the form of input. What would a career-tree look like for a worker? What would their characteristics advance table look? Suggestions and opinions concerning this would be very useful in this endavour.

The first thing I want to get out of the way is the design of the career tree. Im thinking of naming the first rank to "Slave" or "Serf" as a beginning, and then this rank divides into three separate branches. One branch leaning more towards an artist/entertainer sort of way (this route is probably what the would be bards, painters, musicians and entertainers would take), another leaning more towards a more downtrodden labourer sort of path (for the middle-hive workers, miners, shipratings and such). An the third one moves more towards an almost heretical path, namely the working-class firestarters, protesters and equal-rights worshippers (this is the path the more radical and combat oriented anarchists and unjustly treated workers are likely to take).

Does this division sound reasonable? And does it cover most of the different types of workers that exist in the Imperium of man? Of course, it's impossible to cover every single eventuality but if the agenda is to create a Worker-career you should at least try to cover most forms of workers that toil in the warstricken galaxy.

Please, share your thoughts and opinions with me. I want to create a well planned and diverse Career-path that everyone can find useful and reasonable, and I'll need as many different angles as possible for that.

My worry is that a worker carrer path would not stand out enough. The workers from Gaunts ghosts basically could have been represented by a character who started with 400xp from thier normal lives and then quickly gained more along the Guardsman carrer path or if im remembering it correctly the Cleric for some of the leaders.

I wouldn't say that teeming masses of the Imperium were ignored by the Inquisition but that when recruited they would tend to specialise along one of the book career paths maybe making worker more appropriate as a background package than an entire career path. Think about it, what would you call the top rank of a Worker carrer? I would tend to see being picked up by the Inquisition as a chance to break out of the monotony of your appointed task in the Imperium and learn new things.

The average Imperial citizen does one job his entire life whether it is smealting ore of chopping wood and maybe becomes very good at thier appointed task but I do not know how you would fill an entire carrer path with it.

Sorry to sound negative, its an interesting idea but I dont see how to pull it off convincingly.

Kaihlik

Kaihlik said:

But then again, what sort of talents/skills would a starting character with 400 xp start out with if the character in question was just "living a normal life"? All the starting skills and talents provided by each chosen career reflects the relevant job the character have. But there is no "normal life" career. What sort of skills and talents would they begin with? That is what this project is intended to answer.

I could definitely see the Inquisition using agents within the working classes to root out heresy and alien/daemonic plots starting to form. And sometimes it's just not enough to dress-up a guardsman, an assassin and an adept to pull it off. Sometimes you need "the real deal" so to speak, hence a character from a workers background with enough blisters and scars on his hands and feet to prove what he's been doing all his life is needed. The top career-rank of a Worker class would be named something appropriately of course. Like the guardsman tree that begins at conscript and then rises through the military ranks (trooper, sergeant, liutenant and so forth). The "artsy" branch of the tree would probably be called something like "Maestro" or other popular moniker that suits highly regarded artists. The more labourer inclinded branch would probably be called "foreman" or "corporate scion". The working-class activists highest rank "ringleader" or "resistance frontman" or something similar.

And I know that the average Imperial citizen does one job all his or her life most of the time. But you have to agree that although there are untold billions of average Imperial citizens, a large majority of them hardly live in "average" times or places. Sometimes the Emperor has greater plans for a low born and seemingly unimportant worker. Sometimes their home is visited by war and destruction and they have to make a choice of either being engulfed by these above average situations or make a stand and fight through it. That's what makes workers interesting as characters, and it makes for adding more dynamic to a standard gaming group when the worker comes into contact with very different people (like psykers, assassins, guardsmen and tech-priests).

About filling up a career tree it shouldn't be too hard provided that I get some help. It would also serve as a very appropriate excuse to include the many Trade skills described in the rulebook. Lets face it how many careers have a lot of different Trade skills to choose from? When I flip through the pages I can see like two, possibley three different Trade skills for any given Career (Tech-Priest having a few more). Some Trade skills listed are even impossible for the described careerpaths to aquire normally. Seriously, how do you justify a guardsman for instance learning something as complex as Trade (Miner) through a simple Elite Advance?

Now I dont have anything against you sounding negative. The more questions raised then the better one can extrapolate on the idea. But I would appriceate if this thread dont spiral into just being about me trying to defend my idea, and that I can see some constructive suggestions which I asked for in the first place as well. Ok?

The problem With Designing a new career based around being a normal person is that it can be, quite frankly, boring. Pherhaps it would work best as a reverse elite advance, required to be taken pre 1st stage in a career? Then you could have things like easy access to contacts or Peer (workers) as the few perks. Add in quite a few knowledge skills and you've got the start of a decent advance tree. The workers, depending on their origin, could also gain things like common lore (battlefleet Calixis) for people from Magnarosk or common lore (Golden Hand) for people from Haive Tasarus on Scintilla. That might make it a more playable path than otherwise would be the case.

There is actually a fair bit of diversity in what you can come up with in terms of 'careers' with the combination of homewolds, backgrounds, elite advances and so on. I think there is a spreadsheet somewhere a player did up of all the skill and talents that each class has and can advance too which might be a start on finding a niche or crossover for something, but the basic book classes cover most of what is needed.

I actually had a very similar thought and have been pondering the idea of creating a "Citizen" career path as well. I has thought to start with general Citizen, improving in their core skills and such up to rank 3 and then splitting into three paths at rank 4 - Supervisor, Expert and Merchant.

I haven't done much work on it, but I did write up this Citizen alternate rank.

Citizen (Alternate Rank)
Required Career: Adept, Guardsman or Scum
Alternate Rank: Rank 1 or higher (0 exp)
Note this means you may opt to specify this at character creation as your Advance Scheme. This does not affect your basic starting Skills or Talents, only how and on what you can spend you starting exp.

Advance Cost Type Prerequisites
Awareness 100 S
Barter 100 S
Climb 100 S
Common Lore (Imperium) 100 S
Drive (ground vehicle) 100 S
Performer (any one) 100 S
Pilot (civilian craft) 100 S
Trade (any one) 100 S
Wrangling 100 S
Unremarkable 100 T
Carouse 200 S
Charm 200 S
Common Lore (Underworld) 200 S
Evaluate 200 S
Gamble 200 S
Performer (any one) +10 200 S Performer (same)
Trade (any one) +10 200 S Trade (same)
Melee Weapon Training (primitive) 200 T
Pistol Training (SP) 200 T

Merchant background is a good one

If no ones already done it, there's probably room for a dedicated 'Pilot' advance as well covering vehicles of all shapes and sizes, heavy weapon gunnery and mechanical fixits, that you could tack onto most kinds of classes that don't have them as a duplication.

Advanced education might be another idea, loading up on a couple of scolarly skills as part time activity.

I would support a career path also. The reason is when the worker joins the inquisition he leaves his old life behind and kinda leaves that career path. he might stil have contact to it giving him easy acces to learn other skill/talents.

Looking over the one LuciusT made it in the right direction. But are some of the trades not specific for techpriest as it secret knowlegde they guard like the trade technomat ?

(btw trade any is mentioned twice)

MKX said:

A very good point! Merchant skills should definetly be included somewhere in the career path. Especially suited if someone have the Noble Born "homeworld" as a start and choose the Worker/Labourer career that would probably result in a rich corporate magnate or something similar. Or should the career path include a separate branch entirely for Merchants? (perhaps replacing the activist branch?)

Although I kind of like the activist-branch idea myself, it would certainly make more sense to have a merchant/magnate-branch, a labourer-branch and an artist-branch to cover as wide a spectrum of working-class jobs as possible. Perhaps the activist direction is better suited as background-fluff for a character rather than having its own branch with skills and talents in the career path? What do you think?

A dedicated Pilot advance is something I've thought off before too (thanks for reminding me!), although the Guardsman have access to quite a few Drive and Pilot skills in his career tree, there really isnt a dedicated Pilot profession to choose from among the career paths in Dark Heresy. However now that im thinking of it, perhaps a "Pilot" advance would serve better as an Alternate Rank like those listed in Inquisitors Handbook, rather than having their own branch in the career path? Although there are quite a few pilots in the forty-first millenium, it is still a rather narrow specialization, don't you agree?

Also I'd like to thank everyone who answered so far for your thoughts and opinions. Im gonna meet with my gaming group today and hear their opinions as well, but when I get back home I was thinking of outlining the first rank and starting skills/talents so please check by this thread sometime soon as I may post the rough outline of it for you to judge.

Meta said:

Technomat, as I understand it, is the Trade skill of lay tech adepts, the people who maintain the machines but aren't fully initiated into the Cult Mechanicus.

(Actually it's Trade (any) and Trade (any) +10. )

Then what skill defines being fully iniated. It cannot jsut be the implants. THere msut be some secret knowlegde.

Meta said:

Really, Tech-Use. You also have Common Lore (Tech), Common Lore (Machine Cult), Forbidden Lore (Adeptus Mechanicus) and various Scholastic Lores, but Tech-Use is the heart of it. Trade (technomat) is what the "common man" has instead of Tech Use.

Meta said:

Forbidden Lore (Adaptus Mechanicus) or Peer (Adaptus Mechanicus) maybe? After all, how can you say you're one of them if they don't see you as one of them ;-)

As for the citizen career, that's an idea I wanted to try as well some time ago. Since then, however, I've decided that it's a lot easer to simply make a form of background packages to represent common citizens. The only major thing that's truly missing from them to make them work for the common citizen is trade skills right out of the gate that would work for the concept.

If someone wanted to play an Embalmer, I'd give them Trade (embalmer) in place of Trade (Copyist or Valet) and set them on the Adept path. The Cleric path works great for Entertainers if the starting skill of Common Lore (Imperial Creed) is switched out for another Preform skill. For a farmer, I'd go with a Guardsmen replacing the Pistol Trainings and the Basic Weapon Trainings for Trade (Agri), Peer (worker), and Wrangling. A merchant would be a Scum with Basic Weapon Training, Blather, and Ambidextrous/Unremarkable being replaced by Trade (Merchant), Barter, and Evaluate.

Heck, it might be easer to just put down the basic skills and talents one would need to be some concept (and how many talents/skills have to be replaced) and let the player chose which career tree to build the concept from.

from france

i think it was already ask once and one of the answer was to use the carreer path of warhammer rpg. it's a good option too me beause it offer wider range of possibilties and the games have a lot in common.

at least you can use it to get some inspiration.

Ok, here's the update. Although I know that some of you are of the opinion that you dont need an entire career path to represent a worker (but still provided several constructive solutions) I would appriciate if you could try to give me feedback on the career path approach anyway.

Although im not particularly politically minded, I do have a soft spot for fiction concerning working-class and underdog romanticism and thats why I think the drudging classes of the forty-first millenium deserve their own career path, I hope you understand.

Remember, this career path is not intended for those who want to emulate living with an extreme proffesion (like pretending to be an Assassin, Guardsman, Cleric or Scum), this is the career path for those who like playing the unlikely underdog that somehow had the good or ill fortune of getting caught up in larger than life situations of epic proportions, whithout having to be railroaded into playing a Scum PC. So even if you yourself wouldnt like to play that type of role, try to bear this philosophy in mind if you want to help out.

So here is the starting package, and my intention is to use it as a foundation or the entire career tree. Tell me what you think of it:

PROLE

- "My life was simple. Every day I woke up, went to work, went home, ate and went to bed. 'til I stumbled across those mutants trying to blow up the ore grinder that is. Then my life took a seriously strange turn..."

- Brock Tilleas, Serf of Fathomsound mine

Proles are the members of the lower and middle classes of the Imperium. The most numerous of all mankind, these men and women's lives usually consists of life-long toil, whether they be miners extracting ore from a mining world or assembling simple parts in hive manufactoria. Some choose instead to earn their daily bread through entertaining others for coin and some ply their trade as merchants, buying goods as cheap as possible and later selling them as expensive as possible. Proles are seldom well educated or knowledgable about the galaxy and its horrors. Their strength lie in specialization in their chosen or given trade, and being perfectly capable at dealing with other low born folk like themselves. Proles makes for perfect agents of the Inquisition when it comes to rooting out heresy and crime in the faceless working masses, simply because the Proles have an understanding of the worker life and society that people from other classes usually have difficulties to comperhend.

Starting Skills:

Speak Language (Low Gothic) (Int), Awareness (Per), Common Lore (Imperium), Charm (Fel) or Dodge (Ag), Barter (Fel) or Acrobatics (Ag) or Trade (Technomat), Trade (Merchant) (Fel) or Trade (Miner) (S) or Performer (Singer).

Starting Talents:

Unremarkable or Peer (Workers), Light Sleeper or Resistance (Cold), Melee Weapon Training (Primitive), Pistol Training (SP), Thrown Weapon Training (Primitive) or Basic Weapon Training (Primitive).

Starting Gear:

Stub revolver and six bullets, crossbow and 10 bolts or drive nailer* and 15 nails or 5 fire bombs, axe-rake**, Grox Hides or Heavy Leathers, rags or dirty coveralls (Poor Quality Clothing).

Starting Wealth: 30+1d10 Throne Gelt

* see Inquisitors Handbook pg. 113
** see Inquisitors Handbook pg. 126

Any thoughts and opinions would be useful to me. And if you have any suggestions for what skills and talents should be available to the first rank, don't hesitate to mention them.

shameless bump (been offline for a few days and need to know where the thread is )

Varnias Tybalt said:

IMO, the starting skills don't seem quite right. I question "Charm or Dodge" as being appropriate to the downtrodden prole... and you only have three avaiable Trade skills: Technomat, Merchant or Miner. That's a very limited list. I want to see more variety for a starting Trade... possibly even Trade (choose any one).

Starting Talents look OK once we assume that this is a "hero" character.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Sounds very good though I would change it to the following:

Starting Skills:

Speak Language (Low Gothic) (Int), Awareness (Per), Common Lore (Imperium), Charm (Fel) or Dodge (Ag), Barter (Fel) or Acrobatics (Ag), Trade (Technomat), Trade (Merchant) (Fel), Trade (Miner) (S) or Performer (Singer).

Only one trade skill since most civilians spend their whole life performing a single task

Starting Talents:

Unremarkable or Peer (Workers), Light Sleeper or Resistance (Cold), Melee Weapon Training (Primitive), Pistol Training (SP), Thrown Weapon Training (Primitive) or Basic Weapon Training (Primitive).

Perhaps add a choice for Basic Weapon Training SP or Las to indicate Militia or PDF duty

Starting Gear:

Stub revolver and six bullets, crossbow and 10 bolts or drive nailer* and 15 nails or 5 fire bombs, axe-rake**, Grox Hides or Heavy Leathers, rags or dirty coveralls (Poor Quality Clothing).

Starting Wealth: 30+1d10 Throne Gelt

LuciusT said:

LuciusT said:

Well the "Charm or Dodge" was something I stole from the Scum career, simply because as a lowly prole in a pretty hostile society your ability to charm others or dodge their attacks should be vital to your survival (like it is vital to the Scum). Another reason for picking charm is because I figured that Proles are basically forced to be people-persons (it can be pretty crowded in a hive city or similar place after all, and it's only natural that many proles learn the virtue of getting along with eachother). But then again, perhaps I should make the player choose between Blather and Dodge instead?

About the trade skills being few is because I think the career path should be a bit railroaded into what sort of prole the character will be. My intention is to divide the career tree into three different paths (merchants, workers and artists), so the relevant skills will be more developed depending on which path the player choose. For instance, if you would want to create a PC that is supposed to be an artist or performer of some sort then you'd probably go with Charm, Acrobatics and Performer (Singer) (a lowly artist should be able to sing and dance and be able to charm his audience), and then these skills will be more developed when you reach rank 2 in the artist path. But if you'd like to create a merchant character you'd probably go with Charm, Barter and Trade (Merchant) instead, and these skills will be similarly developed in the merchant path.

My first thought was to let a character take Trade (any one) in the beginning, but it seemed a bit odd, especially when considering how to raise the Trade skill on later levels (can you really have a "Trade (any one) +10"?). The career path would end up looking a bit wierd so I figured inserting the Trade (any one) on later levels, depending on which career branch you go with. So for starters the player will have to settle with pretty basic Trade skills, representing what most of the poorest Proles do (Trade (Technomat) would be common for hive world proles due to large manufactoria where you need workers to assemble parts whithout knowing how the parts actually work, Trade (Merchant) to be able to broker larger deals than simple Bartering and Trade (Miner) if you're from a suitable world where mining is an important industry. After all, chipping away at ore in a mine is something that most people can do so it seems to me like a pretty "basic" Trade skill for lower level characters).

Hope that explains why the current starting skills look like they do. Hopefully it'll make more sense when I've drawn up the list for the first and second ranks.

About the starting Talents, then yes we assume that the Prole is a little more "heroic" than other proles. But still not as profficient with firearms and weapons as a Guardsman or Assassin. Pistol Training (SP) was a natural (the Imperium of Man is pretty weaponized after all, and the rule of the gun is common on almost every world, so it should be considered common knowledge to pick up a simple stub revolver or autopistol and be able to fire it). Melee weapon training also seemed appropriate (a workers life in the forty-first millenium is seldom a peaceful one, sometimes you need to whack a robber over the head with your axe-rake or your hard earned Thrones will be stolen). The same goes for Thrown Weapon Training (Primitive) and Basic Weapon (Primitive) symbolizing workers using industrial tools, rocks or molotov cocktails during uprisings or trade wars, simply just using what they've got at hand.

The choice between Unremarkable or Peer (Workers) should define what type of Prole the player wants to play, if it is a social and "people-person" kind of Prole then Peer (Workers) is pretty natural. If it is just another faceless hab-worker then Unremarkable would suit him or her better. Light Sleeper or Resistance (Cold) symbolizing the harsh conditions that most Proles have to survive in (either someone might try to gut you in your sleep to take your last CS-ration or perhaps you never had the luxury of a heated sleeping quarters where you came from).

As you can see, I've tried really hard to put some thought behind the skills and talents that Proles start out with, and I have more things in mind. But still your critique is appriciated, although I would like to see that you extrapolate a bit on why you think some skills doesnt fit, or perhaps come up with a suggestion with something better. Would make my life a little easier.

Anyway, I hope that explains how I thought...

I don't think the model of going from lowly grubby worker to advanced proficient professional working an unrelated trade is quite fitting with Imperial society. There isn't too much in the way of upward mobility after all and, in general, you'll die doing that thing you lived your whole life doing. A better model would be to go from apprentice to master in what ever trade is chosen. What you have so far almost mirrors tat approach, but you might need a few more coices in te starting skill line-up.

One cange tat i feel needs to be made is switching Performance (Singer) for Trade (valet) to show the apprentice entertainer or artist who first must serve his master while they learn the art (the preformance or trade several ranks latter). Not all painters are gonna be singers after all but it's conceivable tat they learned how to serve a master artist while learning to paint.

Now, a quick question; where would Embalmers, Apothecaries, and Grox Wranglers fit into the scheme?

Why would you need to put Trade (any one) +10, if they dont have the prerequisite then they cant buy the +10 so you can just put each of the Trades in at +10, maybe stager them a bit with the "harder" trades coming a rank later. This would mean that the character could have been any trade but can only advance in 1.

Dodge and Charm are useful to the Scum carrer because they spend lots of time in gang fights and in bars having fun in the way a regular citizen wouldnt have. I would replace Charm with Carouse as I imagine more regular cizitens drinking to forget or just to relax, another option could be Secret Toung (Gutter). Since your average Imperial citizen isnt acually involved in firefights in a regular basis I would just drop Dodge. Instead of Dodge you could give them concealment based on the idea the most Imperial citizens are used to makeing themselves go unnoticed for fear of attracting unwanted attention.

I dont like the reasoning that since they are available to Scum a normal citizen should get them too (I know thats not quite what you said but its close enough), in fact to me that limits the potential for a unique class and reinforced what I said earlier about a worker class not being different enough.

Kaihlik

Varnias Tybalt said:

One, I disagree with your assessment of Technomat. To my reading Technomat is not manufacturing assembly, it's machine maintenance.

Two, what about characters who aren't from hive worlds and don't work in manufacturing and/or mining? It doesn't make sense to me to have an entirely different career path for Imperial World masons or Feral World farmers.

LuciusT said:

Technomat is a trade skill, yes? In the back section of the Inquisitor's Handbook are numerous rules for expanding uppon the use of skills, including trade skills being utilized for crafting items. *Shrug*

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

Yeah but the description of Technomat at the back of the Inquisitors Handbook says you can use it to create new maintenance techniques for newly discovered machines based on similar machines. It also says that Technomat has nothing to do with the creation of machines so you cant actually use it for that.

Kaihlik said:

Touche salesman... Wish I could get my ASCI characters to work...

-=Brother Praetus=-