I've been kicking these questions around in my head the last week or so. Sorry if they were already covered in another thread. If so, just point me in the right direction.

What will be the popular play formats following GenCon 2009?

Will "Standard" finally disappear as the most popular foramt to be replaced by LCG?

Will anyone take Legacy seriously and finally see that format get any serious recognition?

Will Jerrod, Luke and others finally get "Vintage" going as an acceptable format?

~Will the game be passed the point of rescue and die in infamy?

Is there another alternative format(draft cube, block only, etc.) that will finally rise into acceptance?

With the collapse of large regional tournaments, will it truly become a meta by meta decision?

What formats do you enjoy playing? and why?

LCG can be entertaining in Joust but is way too slow in Multiplayer, unless multiple people play Baratheon.

Legacy is fun both in Joust and Melee.

I haven't played Standard since Black Friday in NYC, though it was enjoyable.

I would like to see Vintage and Block Only get some coverage, even if not as much love as LCG and Legacy.

Personal opinions only, of course:

kpmccoy21 said:

Will depend entirely on the state of Organized Play post Gencon. If something serious, structured and supported comes out from FFG, then I think the LCG format will take over (assuming the Kings of the Sea expansion delivers acceptably on things like Kings, Kingdoms and traited plots). Traditionally, OP has passively dictated the popular formats. When the decision to create a Classic and a block-rotation-based Standard format came down, many people said "Classic forever," but were predominantly playing Standard within a year because that's what the structured OP concentrated on. Without the "unifying force" of a robust, wide-spread OP, metas will play whatever they want with little reason or pressure to "normalize."

kpmccoy21 said:

I think that will depend on the Kings of the Sea and Kings/Princes of the Sun expansions. I think that until Greyjoy and Martell are solidly back in the LCG, Standard will not go away entirely. In fact, until traited plots, cancels, saves and neutral draw become more solid in the LCG, I don't think Standard will go away. It's not the size of the cardpool people are ultimately stifled by in LCG, but the homogeneity of it. That will mend itself over time, with the biggest immediate boost coming from the expansions. So I don't see Standard being completely replaced by LCG in 2009, although I could see the ITE block "rotated" and the format becoming LCG cards + 5KE. This will probably vary greatly from place to place. Metas with a lot of new players will probably move almost exclusively to LCG shortly after Kings/Princes of the Sun comes out (if they aren't there already).

kpmccoy21 said:

Again, it'll depend on OP, but my guess is that Legacy will get about as much recognition as Classic did pre-LCG.

kpmccoy21 said:

No. Any "player's council" that creates a Vintage format will also need to create an OP or tournament circuit for that format - otherwise, there is no reason for anyone to accept an "official" Vintage format over what their own local meta wants to do. This game, and community, is not likely to look at a Vintage format as anything more than a loose suggestion unless there is also a place (and reason) to travel and compete on a wider scale to go along with it (whether they actually make the trips or not). So unless Jerod, Luke and others create a Regional/National/International event system to go along with Vintage, I don't think it's going to gain any traction, rules finalized or not.

kpmccoy21 said:

I don't think so. We're already seeing some renewed interest from people that wrote it off completely last fall. That's likely to continue. And again, a serious OP would help generate a lot of interest at FLGSs, if a "Night's Watch" wants to champion the game and grow a meta.

kpmccoy21 said:

Again, not without an OP. People are likely to find and play their own formats locally, but they're not likely to be anything more than regional without a reason for them to be anything more than regional.

kpmccoy21 said:

Hasn't this already happened? The fact that people are still making similar decisions from meta to meta shouldn't hide the fact that this has become a local, grass-roots game without much of a national or international competitive scene anymore. Nothing wrong with that - many of us saw it coming way back in Dec. 2007 - but it is a "new reality."

kpmccoy21 said:

I still prefer Standard, though LCG isn't too bad. As I said before, it is the relative homogeneity of LCG that makes me prefer Standard. In LCG, you Lannister deck looks a lot like my Lannister deck, which looks a lot like his Lannister deck, and so on. Some of it, of course, is just that I remember cards from Standard (that my psyche says should "still be legal") that would "make this deck much better and/or consistent."

Anyway, if anyone missed it (~cause it was such a subtle point), I think the future of the game and its formats, as far as an extended community is concerned, lies with a more robust OP program - whether supported by FFG or a volunteer "player's council."

OP has traditionally been the driving force behind what the metas do. ktom pretty much went down the list and I don't disagreee with any of it.

I do think that it is important for the existing metas to transition to LCG if they have any interest in taking part in the supposed reinvigorated OP. I'd suggest they go to 5KE+LCG following Gencon with an eye for going pure LCG potentially after Sea and South release we'll be well over 600 cards and that should be enough for most competetive players to build some interesting decks with some versatility. If not after the Martell release I'd certainly hope by the beginning of 2010 in hopes that the OP will be in full swing for the rolling regionals leading up to Gencon.

Dead on about OP.

Most of the people I've talked with have agreed that they would have originally been fine seeing a complete shift to LCG after this years Gencon. With that in mind, and the growing card pool, I guessing most people will find it easier to make the switch to LCG once Martell's is back in, if not sooner.

Agreed - and its worth re-stating. The game has already become a local game. Even with a striong OP system in palce - ti probably would have ended up taht way this year anyhow - too many veterans left and the acrd pool was just too restricted to support a vibrant tourney format.

After GenComn this year, i will probably be playing only LCG, and if we get enough traited Plots etc. in Kings of the sea, I could see 5K not be ing played aorund here either. yes - we'd lose the Martells until the fall, but at that point it might just be easier to wait a few more weeks/months and just play the one format. Until then though, I really don't see LCG being prferred locally.

In our meta in SW Missouri, we saw a large influx of new players (6-8). While they don't all show up at the same time, it made perfect sense for us to make the immediate shift to LCG format last fall. While the card pool has not been large, I have seen different varieties of decks, and have not really heard any complaints about the format. My biggest complaint is that I haven't had the time to come out as much as I'd like to play at the local store.

Maybe I'm missing something...

What is the difference between Legacy and Vintage?

My current assumption is that you mean Legacy Highlander?

And is there a difference between either of them and Classic outside of Highlander deck construction?

"Vintage" is an unofficial player's format proposed by Maester LUke and CLU wherein all cards would be available in tournament play,

Retrictions, bannings and errata would eb reviewed and approved by a player's council (publicly). It is designed to provide a deep and dynamic card pool utlizing as much as possible from the game's six year history.

Has that gotten any ground? I recall a vintage agot forum at some point... but otherwise, nothing else since.

Personally, I wouldn't mind an all set format that banned the problematic cards that caused game imbalance. Not just the broken cards, but the cards that

forced players to put in specific fixes.

Some Examples:

LCG: J'aquen H'gar, Den of the Wolf

5KE: The traitors, sorry but I think the whole "traitor mechanic" was horrible for the environment. And in all sets... the throne of blades has better ones anyhow.

ITE: Devious Machinations, Tywin Lannister

WED: Prince's Loyalist

VED: The Twins, Barristan Selmy (Why should a card that just makes Targ unplayable be allowed?), Walder Frey, The Twins agenda, Army of the Drowned.

IAF: Storm Raiders, Qartheen Trader's Guild, <-- I'm not sure about City of Bones... since attachment control is through the roof, would it be as broken?

Just examples mind you.

bloodycelt said:

I would refer you back to the first few posts where it was asked if this would get off the ground in the coming year and my reasoning for why it will not.

there is a vintage AGoT website....

bloodycelt said:

This is precisely why I have no interest in this format. Half of those cards are answers themselves for run away or abusive mechanics, which means in an "almost" open format things like Targ's marshalling burn would be almost impossible to stop with anything even remotely resembling a reliable method. I shudder at the thought of those old decks coupled with the byproduct challenge burn Targ has... ick.

I think a Vintage format would be better if it focused on pre-Winter Thrones with everything from Westeros through A Reign of Kings being legal. It woiuld serve as an excellent balance to the LCG as far as what mechanics are offered and the card pool. of course Martell gets the short shrift, but since nearly everyone would be trying to ban a bunch of their cards anyway with any format I'm not sure it matters.

Lars said:

What, the message board Shives put up to discuss the possibility of a Vintage format that no one has posted to since something like November? The one that is totally over-run by Bots since no one is paying attention to it?

yeah. there is still one though....figured he might want to look at it if he didn't know or forgot....he did seem interested in talking vintage.

dormouse said:

Well, thats what would get banned or pruned the runaway mechanics and the monkey patches.

So you'd get rid of Targ's strong burn, Lannister'spowerful kneel, Martell's everything, Bara's joust and rush, Greyjoy's super location destruction?

Sounds pretty pointless to me. If you are going to get rid of so much of what defined the CCG why not just play the LCG? Doesn't really matter, as I said, I've no interest in playing in that kind of enviornment, though the clamor for a Vintage format was underwhelming, and I think this may be why. A castrated Classic competitive format just doesn't have much to offer, especially without the support of the company behind it.