Me again.

I'm trying to find a source to tell me the rules, but I can't seem to.

The Riot Shield from the Colonist's Handbook gives 2 Defensive and 2 Deflection, which is fantastic, but it's statted as a weapon.

It's a shield. Shields were meant to be used with weapons.

Currently I'm working with a Commando who's wielding the Riot Shield and a Vibrosword, which also has a Defensive Quality. Do the benefits of the Shield and the Sword Stack?

Second Question: Where do books state if a melee weapon must be used with two hands?

Thanks again

Force On

I think the current rules are that you use the best Defense Rating, but they don't stack, however, Talents and such that say '+1' or whatever are added in.

A weapon will state in its entry if two hands are required.

2P51 is right. Here are the exact page references to the applicable rules.

Page 207 of the CRB "Multiple sources of defense do not stack. However, the character always uses the best defense rating available to him."

Armor Master (Improved) (p. 132) is an example of a talent that could increase your defense.

The shield is statted as a weapon so that you can bash someone in the face with it. Use the two weapon combat rules on page 210 for that.

Since both the shield and the vibrosword get the bonus from the same source, that is to say the Defensive quality, I'm inclined to say that they don't stack.

Since both the shield and the vibrosword get the bonus from the same source, that is to say the Defensive quality, I'm inclined to say that they don't stack.

Even different sources of defense do not stack. You would not get the benefit of both the shield and cover according to the rules.

According to the FAQ:

The strain threshold of the topic was exceeded in this thread and covered in a podcast as well:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/86214-cover-and-armor/

So does Defensive grant a Defence rating or increase it?

So does Defensive grant a Defence rating or increase it?

Yes....

**** you 2Pirate51 !

So does Defensive grant a Defence rating or increase it?

It increases your melee defense.... so if your current defense is 0 it changes it to 1....

EotE Pg. 156.

Do the benefits of the Shield and the Sword Stack?

No stack. You wouldn't defend against an attack with both the shield and sword at the same time; you'd use one or the other. Holding a vibrosword in one hand doesn't make the shield more powerful.

You would not get the benefit of both the shield and cover according to the rules.

I was off on this point. The shield and the defensive/deflection qualities do stack with cover or armor because the item qualities ' increase melee/ranged defense by the weapon's Defensive/Deflection quality' as Col. Orange pointed out.

So does Defensive grant a Defence rating or increase it?

Full answer from the FAQ:

" Q. Some armor, talents, and item qualities provide a static defense value, while others specifically increase a defense value. How do they interact?

Based on this quote, I cannot find anything that prevents the sword and shield from stacking since they both "increase" melee defense.

My apologies. I guess my application to be a rules lawyer for Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe will be declined.

So does Defensive grant a Defence rating or increase it?

It increases your melee defense.... so if your current defense is 0 it changes it to 1....

EotE Pg. 156.

So Battle Armour (1), Improved Armour Master (+1), a Vibrosword (+1) and Riot Shield (+2) would give you 5 Melee Defence. Impressive.

Battle Armour, Improved Armour Master, a vibrosword and riot shield would give you +5 Melee Defence.

Impressive.

Most impressive.

(although I'm not sure about the two Defensive 1 qualities stacking...? Is Defensive 1 + Defensive 1 = Defensive 2?)

I thought the riot shield was +2 by itself?

Or did you mean the Defensive quality from two different objects stacking? I could see that being a problem,

if we define same source as "a weapon" rather than "vibrosword" and "riot shield".

Both the vibrosword and riot shield are considered melee weapons, so I think they would be considered the same source. Much like trying to wear different suits of armour to stack soak.

I thought the riot shield was +2 by itself?

Or did you mean the Defensive quality from two different objects stacking? I could see that being a problem,

if we define same source as "a weapon" rather than "vibrosword" and "riot shield".

Personally, I've been defining it as the "Defensive" weapon quality being the source, and that ranks of Defensive from additional weapons, such as twin vibroswords or vibrosword and riot shield, not stacking.

So does Defensive grant a Defence rating or increase it?

It increases your melee defense.... so if your current defense is 0 it changes it to 1....

EotE Pg. 156.

Would defense increase if you were wearing armored clothing, for example? Or would you use the highest Defensive rather than the defense armor gives you?

Would defense increase if you were wearing armored clothing, for example? Or would you use the highest Defensive rather than the defense armor gives you?

Yes, according to RAW. Cover and Armor give you a Defense value, while Weapons and Talents usually increase that value. So pick either your cover or your armor and then add all of your other modifiers.

Personally, I usually let Cover and Armor stack too as a house rule, but my campaigns are pretty low-power so the extremes aren't as likely. If you've got PCs with modified Heavy Battle Armor or Personal Deflector Shields, you may want to stick to RAW.

No stack. You wouldn't defend against an attack with both the shield and sword at the same time; you'd use one or the other. Holding a vibrosword in one hand doesn't make the shield more powerful.

It's rare that any single blow would be blocked by both weapons, but having both offers flexibility and greater overall coverage. I do some medieval reenactment fighting, and while I'm hardly an expert, having a sword in addition to a shield definitely improves my defense, since it can pick up strikes that would otherwise be awkward to stop with a shield (sword-side head and shoulder strikes).

...but it's statted as a weapon.

It's a shield. Shields were meant to be used with weapons.

You say that like it's not a weapon in its own right...

Upon a closer examination of the rules and errata, it would seem that "multiple sources" are simply "Ranged," "Melee," and "general," not "armor" or "weapons." So the Defensive quality should stack with itself, but not with most armor, which has a general defense rating and not a specifically "melee" defense rating. This is why cover and armor don't stack, but the way I read it, cover and the Deflection quality would stack.

So a dual wielding vibrosword user would get +4 melee defense per RAW?

While a dual wielding lightsaber user would get +4 ranged defense?

Well, that explains why Grievous had FOUR of them.

So a dual wielding vibrosword user would get +4 melee defense per RAW?

While a dual wielding lightsaber user would get +4 ranged defense?

Well, that explains why Grievous had FOUR of them.

I would say no, as in the case of the vibroswords it is Defensive 1 , which though the quality says "adds +1 to user's melee defense" it's not Defensive +1. Thus, wielding 4 vibroswords would only net you a single +1 to melee defense since you've still only got Defensive 1.

As for the lightsaber's it'd ultimately be the same thing if using a Sapith Crystal, as they'd provide Deflection X once the modifications are accounted for, The mods themselves add to the existing Deflection value (which for most lightsabers is a zero), giving them Deflection X (X = to number of mods). So if your four-armed PC is using four lightsabers, each with a Sapith Crystal that's been modified to provided Deflection 2, then said PC would still only get a +2 to their ranged defense.

To treat it otherwise would simply be cheesy as all get-out, and this system strives to keep the "cheese factor" to a minimum.