They could have made the Royal Guard title apply to both interceptors and Advanceds as well, in addition to making the refit apply to Advanceds and A-Wings.

I don't see how letting the Advanced take two modifications does anything but make it even more expensive.

One day there'll be a mod that increases attack power or ordnance. Auto Thrusters could be used if they can have two mods...

They could have made the Royal Guard title apply to both interceptors and Advanceds as well, in addition to making the refit apply to Advanceds and A-Wings.

I don't see how letting the Advanced take two modifications does anything but make it even more expensive.

How about;

Targeting array (mod, tie/a only) - 0 cost

Before revealing your dial, you may perform a free target lock action. You may maintain up to two separate target locks.

And/Or;

Additional payload (mod, tie/a only) - 1 cost

When a game effect instructs you to discard a *missile symbol* upgrade, you may instead discard this card.

I'm not sure if the wording on the second is clear, but this would allow you to fire the missile and then discard the mod instead of the missile, allowing you to fire it twice.

Adding autothrusters doesn't really help though. The problem with the TIE advanced isn't that it has trouble staying alive, its that it has trouble doing enough damage for its points. Interceptors, by comparison, have good damage application but lack durability, so spending points on improving that durability can be worth the points.

The more I think of it, the more I think that what the TIE advanced really wants is better scenario play. I'd be more ok with it being 'unplayable' in a standard tournament setting if there was a more robust set of generic scenarios for casual play, where victory conditions do not rely on killing opponents/doing damage.

Another thing that deserves more consideration is improving munitions. I really like Rauhughes's Additional Payload concept above, but would make it 1-2 pts and available to everything. Though then that brings up the concern if Z-95s with munitions will end up being too powerful...

One day there'll be a mod that increases attack power or ordnance. Auto Thrusters could be used if they can have two mods...

I doubt that there will ever be a Modification that increases attack power. If it were priced low enough to be worth taking on ships with 2 attack it would make swarms too powerful. If it were priced high enough to keep it out of the hands of swarms, it would only end up on ships that don't need help with attack power.

FFG has been stingy when it comes to Modifications. All ships can use them so it makes them harder to balance around. The limitation of needing of needing the Boost action to equip Autothrusters was a decent work around but I'd hate to see that sort of limiting mechanic on too many Modifications.

One day there'll be a mod that increases attack power or ordnance. Auto Thrusters could be used if they can have two mods...

I doubt that there will ever be a Modification that increases attack power. If it were priced low enough to be worth taking on ships with 2 attack it would make swarms too powerful. If it were priced high enough to keep it out of the hands of swarms, it would only end up on ships that don't need help with attack power.

FFG has been stingy when it comes to Modifications. All ships can use them so it makes them harder to balance around. The limitation of needing of needing the Boost action to equip Autothrusters was a decent work around but I'd hate to see that sort of limiting mechanic on too many Modifications.

Well, they've somewhat found a way around the modifications being available to all recently, what with the E/2 upgrade being B-Wing only and Autothrusters only being usable if you have boost.

I'd love to see a title that would allow the Advanced to just modify all hit results into crit results. It would add firepower without actually adding red dice, and would make Maarek brutal.

I'd love to see a title that would allow the Advanced to just modify all hit results into crit results. It would add firepower without actually adding red dice, and would make Maarek brutal.

While that's a buff to the Advanced, it's also an indirect nerf to Imperials in general. If they are doing something creative with damage for the Advanced I'd like to maybe see something that takes away some of the advantage that shields have over hull.

One day there'll be a mod that increases attack power or ordnance. Auto Thrusters could be used if they can have two mods...

I doubt that there will ever be a Modification that increases attack power. If it were priced low enough to be worth taking on ships with 2 attack it would make swarms too powerful. If it were priced high enough to keep it out of the hands of swarms, it would only end up on ships that don't need help with attack power.

FFG has been stingy when it comes to Modifications. All ships can use them so it makes them harder to balance around. The limitation of needing of needing the Boost action to equip Autothrusters was a decent work around but I'd hate to see that sort of limiting mechanic on too many Modifications.

Agreed, but if they made it unique, then that would make it less OP, and then give it to Vader.. but still, like you said, just more pricy Vader..

I think people are worrying too much about buffing Maarek and the generics to viability making Vader into some sort of god: it won't. Sure, he'll be better than the other TIE advanceds but he's Darth Vader . More importantly, we've now got Soontir Fel (Push the Limit, Stealth Device, Autothrusters) flying around, so those worrying about making Vader Imperial autoinclude I think are overreacting.

I think people are worrying too much about buffing Maarek and the generics to viability making Vader into some sort of god: it won't. Sure, he'll be better than the other TIE advanceds but he's Darth Vader . More importantly, we've now got Soontir Fel (Push the Limit, Stealth Device, Autothrusters) flying around, so those worrying about making Vader Imperial autoinclude I think are overreacting.

I don't think the concern is that Vader gets so good that he's on every Imperial list. I think it is more that Vader will be so much better than the other TIE Advanced pilots for the points spent, why would you take any Advanced but him. We've currently got that sort of an issue with the Advanced but Vader is the only one even close to being worth playing, a solid fix should make Vader a solid high PS list addition while at the same time still making the lesser Advanceds viable options.

I think people are worrying too much about buffing Maarek and the generics to viability making Vader into some sort of god: it won't. Sure, he'll be better than the other TIE advanceds but he's Darth Vader . More importantly, we've now got Soontir Fel (Push the Limit, Stealth Device, Autothrusters) flying around, so those worrying about making Vader Imperial autoinclude I think are overreacting.

I don't think the concern is that Vader gets so good that he's on every Imperial list. I think it is more that Vader will be so much better than the other TIE Advanced pilots for the points spent, why would you take any Advanced but him. We've currently got that sort of an issue with the Advanced but Vader is the only one even close to being worth playing, a solid fix should make Vader a solid high PS list addition while at the same time still making the lesser Advanceds viable options.

Vader is 8 points more than the basic advanced, so provided they make all of them better I don't think you need to worry. The lower points advanced will fit into lower point slots and Vader will likely be more expensive since he'll have an added EPT on top. The basics will fill a much needed mid 20 point range while Vader will be a centerpiece, as he should be. There will be spots for all of them, well, except for Marek, whose ability is just garbage right now, so trying to make him as useable as Vader is a bit silly, IMO, unless he gets a personal fix.

Still the simplest way to fix the advanced is releasing all new pilots and accepting the ones we now have as too expensive and too difficult to fix. That way you can bring the cost down to acceptable levels.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE_Advanced_x1_%28modified%29

This is what we need give me an excuese to add silly fins to my model.

Uhh Major? You were going to bite and throw some numbers at the cannon upgrade idea?

Yup. Thanksgiving and Worlds data collection happened. Sometime this weekend though.

I dont know if somebody has alredy suggested this but... Could it be a fix to release a title that makes the advance able to shoot twice every round? At 0 points I mean, just for not making a rule that automatically gives one ship a special ability.

I thought about this after playing rogue leader. You get to use the tie advanced in two missions, and I noticed that, even if it has only 2 laser cannons, it has a very high fire rate. Then, i think this fix could make this a more unique ship, without more obvious fixes like the "+1 attack dice" thing, which will nearly convert it into an imperial X-wing. This will make the ship equivalent in firepower to 2 regular ties, at the cost of 3 points less than the two ties (talking about academy pilots vs PS2 advanced)

Also, imagine Maarek Stele being able to attack twice a round with the EPT marksmanship. It could be able to deal two crits in one round with some luck.

Thoughts? Hope to hear from the master-mathwinger

I think people are worrying too much about buffing Maarek and the generics to viability making Vader into some sort of god: it won't. Sure, he'll be better than the other TIE advanceds but he's Darth Vader . More importantly, we've now got Soontir Fel (Push the Limit, Stealth Device, Autothrusters) flying around, so those worrying about making Vader Imperial autoinclude I think are overreacting.

I don't think the concern is that Vader gets so good that he's on every Imperial list. I think it is more that Vader will be so much better than the other TIE Advanced pilots for the points spent, why would you take any Advanced but him.

People take E-wings other than Corran and Interceptors other than Fel.

Maarek would be brutal if he could actually reliably crit.

I dont know if somebody has alredy suggested this but... Could it be a fix to release a title that makes the advance able to shoot twice every round? At 0 points I mean, just for not making a rule that automatically gives one ship a special ability.

I thought about this after playing rogue leader. You get to use the tie advanced in two missions, and I noticed that, even if it has only 2 laser cannons, it has a very high fire rate. Then, i think this fix could make this a more unique ship, without more obvious fixes like the "+1 attack dice" thing, which will nearly convert it into an imperial X-wing. This will make the ship equivalent in firepower to 2 regular ties, at the cost of 3 points less than the two ties (talking about academy pilots vs PS2 advanced)

That I like the sound of.

Yes, actually I suggested an upgrade that let the Tie Advanced attack twice for (0-2) points,

Using the Missile Upgrade Slot.

I don't think MJ ever runned the numbers about this..

So either you let them attack twice with their primary lasers - which I think can be a breaker in range 1 -

or this counts as a secondary weapon - with two power 2 attacks - which has its advantages in range 3.

Attacking twice is intresting though I think I would give the tie advanced +1 firepower when its outside of the defenders fire arc and a boost action. Im not sure if this is mathmaticaly balanced but i do think it kinda suits the theme of the ship.

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Blaster Turret (4)

This little beast is able to deal 2 power 3 attacks in range 1. Ok you need a focus ...

Taking this to the Tie Advanced:

A modification for 0 points using the Missile Upgrade slot, you spend a focus and you are able to perform your primary attack twice.

This would encourage the use of Fleet Officers around.

Maarek + 2 primary attacks upgrade + Marksmanship + Experimantal Interface: with 2 primary attacks every round he would have way better chances to land a crit.

Vader + 2 primary attacks upgrade + Markmanship: Now you fear the Dark Lord! (maybe)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Blaster Turret (4)

This little beast is able to deal 2 power 3 attacks in range 1. Ok you need a focus ...

Taking this to the Tie Advanced:

A modification for 0 points using the Missile Upgrade slot, you spend a focus and you are able to perform your primary attack twice.

This would encourage the use of Fleet Officers around.

Maarek + 2 primary attacks upgrade + Marksmanship + Experimantal Interface: with 2 primary attacks every round he would have way better chances to land a crit.

Vader + 2 primary attacks upgrade + Markmanship: Now you fear the Dark Lord! (maybe)

Advanceds probably should not have more firepower than Fighters. But as i said for balancing purposes it would make sense!

I give you one more thing to think about: what if the Tie Fighter you compare the Advanced to set up your statistics was in fact undercosted? How could you then say by how much the advanced is overpriced?

Because he is using the PS 1 TIE Fighter as the baseline for everything, the costing of the TIE Advanced would stay the same in relation every other ship even if the Academy was undercosted.

The TIE Fighter and Z-95 are clearly the "standard" generic ship that gets used in high level tournament play. So they have become THE STANDARD by which all other ships must be judged, especially when considering taking generic ships as "filler" in your list.

Academys and Rookies were a pillar of the meta for a really long time! How could they be overcosted?

TIE Fighters are still a pillar of the meta, and will be forever unless we see significant power creep. The generic X-wings were used heavily because they were the best option for the Rebels. However, with wave 3 (B-wing) and especially wave 4 (Z-95), we see the generic X-wing usage really fall close to zero. This is exactly what the MathWing has been predicting all along.

I give you one more thing to think about: what if the Tie Fighter you compare the Advanced to set up your statistics was in fact undercosted? How could you then say by how much the advanced is overpriced?

Because he is using the PS 1 TIE Fighter as the baseline for everything, the costing of the TIE Advanced would stay the same in relation every other ship even if the Academy was undercosted.

Okay but wouldn't that only work if he had the ship creation formula deciphered 100% correctly?

Not quite right. He's essentially trying to reverse-engineer a cost formula by setting the TIE/LN as a baseline.

Not exactly. I don't know, and don't care, if FFG even has a cost formula. The value and utility of the ship and its usage in tournaments are the only things that matter, not the value that is printed on the card.

I'm creating my own cost formula that predicts what the ships should be worth. You can use this as an additional design tool when creating new unreleashed ships, or you can use it to analyze how existing ships do and see if that matches up with overall tournament results.

(For the record, I was under the impression both the Academy Pilot and Rookie Pilot were both overcosted by a point to prevent naked squads of 9 and 5 ships respectively, but I could be mistaken)

Possibly, but pure speculation and it this point it doesn't matter regardless of the original intent, or original formulas if there even ever were any.

Also i am just like you convinced that the AP Still is one of the most efficient ways to fill 12 points, and although i argued with you about it, so is the Z-95.

On top of that i always thought that the Rookie (and most other X-Wings) were overcosted compared to the Tie Fighters. You are right! It was the go-to option for rebels because there was nothing better at that time.

There has been some extend of power creep recently in X-Wing. For instance a naked PS3 phantom is really cheap for all it can do at 25 points (but then the Defender probably pays too much for its white K-Turn) I will let you crunch the numbers on this, just to see if my impressions go along with the numbers this time.

Oh and sorry for not answering to each item separately here, i type on my phone and that makes it quite difficult to do so!

"Fixing" the tie advanced seems hard lets make it disgusting broken instead.

"Ill take them myself" 0pts Unique

Tie advanced only. Title.

When attacking choose up to two ships with lower pilot skill and at range one, those ships cannot fire this turn. Perform an extra attack for each ship chosen.

Interesting idea, though I don't know that I'll run the numbers on it. It would mathematically be extremely close to simply giving the ship an extra attack die. 3 attack dice is ~70% more damage than 2 attack dice, so adding a 2nd 2-dice attack would probably actually be slightly better than giving a 3rd dice. You would essentially have the same tradeoffs with the 3 attack options.

People take E-wings other than Corran and Interceptors other than Fel.

Not frequently. I have the full Worlds results, and there were 0 generic E-wings, and 2 Alpha Squadron Pilots.

Also i am just like you convinced that the AP Still is one of the most efficient ways to fill 12 points, and although i argued with you about it, so is the Z-95.

On top of that i always thought that the Rookie (and most other X-Wings) were overcosted compared to the Tie Fighters. You are right! It was the go-to option for rebels because there was nothing better at that time.

Yeah, some things have been hotly debated, and are not always intuitive, but the numbers are what they are. As people get more experience their decisions will eventually converge to the mathematical reality.