So as I jump ship from 40k to X-wing, one thought keeps crossing my mind.... How long is X-wing really going to be around?

I played Magic the Gathering for 10+ years and it has plenty of flexibility when it comes to game mechanics, expansions, types of play, cycling sets in and out, etc. Warhammer 40k has a core rulebook that gets tweaked and re-released every 2-3 years, along with 15 or so independent army books that get re-released every 3-5 years with their own rules changes.

X-wing doesn't really follow these formats. It puts out a new wave of ships every 3-4 months that expand your list options. It has one core rulebook, with few or no reasons that would justify needing any kind of reprint. What kind game is X-wing going to be in the long term? And how is it going to update itself as the years go on? There are only so many iconic ships you can pull out of the movies(im sure the new ones will add a few more) and expanded universe.

I guess the big question is where is this game going to be in 5 years? 10 years?

We'll see in 5-10 years.

I'd say watch Star Trek Attack Wing's lifespan and multiply by 5 for the bare minimum. It's on wave 10 right now. But that game has been poorly managed and seems like a quick cash grab. Even when the releases slow down they might move over towards a little more scenario play. FFG produces enough quality Star Wars content that I could imagine them mixing things up with campaign books and things. I'd imagine this game will continue to be popular for a long time and even if it fades, it won't go away.

There's a lot of room for repaints/improvements (such as the Aces packs) to bring older ships up to date. There are still quite a lot of EU ships that can be brought in. We have a bunch of new movies on the way, and Star Wars Rebels, introducing new ships and characters.

Five years from now, I think we'll be playing the second edition of this game.

Given that the Star Wars universe is having a large infusion of new content over the next few years (Rebels, Eps, VII - IX, spin off movies, etc., etc., etc.), I'd say that X-Wing will probably remain healthy for some time to come.

I'd say watch Star Trek Attack Wing's lifespan and multiply by 5 for the bare minimum. It's on wave 10 right now. But that game has been poorly managed and seems like a quick cash grab. Even when the releases slow down they might move over towards a little more scenario play. FFG produces enough quality Star Wars content that I could imagine them mixing things up with campaign books and things. I'd imagine this game will continue to be popular for a long time and even if it fades, it won't go away.

I almost went Star Trek, because I love the idea of capital ships duking it out, but my buddy said Fantasy Flight is getting ready to release Armada and I love Star Wars more than Star Trek. I think its safe to say that Armada is going to follow roughly the same format as X-wing assuming its lives up to its hype.

It's going to be stronger than ever with the new trilogy.

People will be feverishly talking and playing everything Star Wars related up until 2019, which is the current release date for Episode 9.

It's hard to imagine FFG not releasing a new core set that involves new trilogy ships.

The Lord of the Rings Games Workshop community died down significantly post Return of the King, but internet forums and local events will always keep a game going strong.

Tough to say. There are a lot of factors. The most important one, is LFL. Based on them making more Star Wars content, with Imperial Assault and that card game, I think they are confident in renewing the license. We won't know what FFG/Asmodee's situation in the future and their relationship with LFL, this is really difficult to predict, as also don't know what kind of things they will be demanding with them releasing a lot of new content.

I suspect that FFG will want to keep the license. X-wing is selling really, really well. So they will likely try to keep the license. As for a second edition, keep in mind that they are having their first second edition for one of their tournament games, the AGOT LCG. That is roughly 7 years after they made the switch to LCG format. And a large part of it was because the early stuff wasn't really thought out too much, so even rotation wouldn't solve some of the odd rules additions. I don't see X-wing having that problem.

Are you wondering about this because you’re worried that you’re going to get left hanging by Fantasy Flight Game, an Asmodee Company?

Unlike Magic and Warhammer 40,000, you can easily buy multiple X-Wing core sets and every single expansion pack and it’ll still cost a fraction of the cost of 40k army. It might even cost less than some of the super rare Magic singles.

I say this because if you have everything from X-Wing – the factions – it becomes a self contained board game. Your opponent doesn’t need to have their own squadron.

When you’re in the mood, you can just bring out your stuff and play a game.

As for a second edition, keep in mind that they are having their first second edition for one of their tournament games, the AGOT LCG. That is roughly 7 years after they made the switch to LCG format. And a large part of it was because the early stuff wasn't really thought out too much, so even rotation wouldn't solve some of the odd rules additions. I don't see X-wing having that problem.

I can't speak for the AGOT LCG, but in X-wing only about 25% (or less) of the ships are consistently represented with their generic pilots in high level play, and this is predicted by MathWing. It is fair to conclude that there is a lot of room for improvement, and a lot of things could get tweaked for balance in a 2nd edition.

As for a second edition, keep in mind that they are having their first second edition for one of their tournament games, the AGOT LCG. That is roughly 7 years after they made the switch to LCG format. And a large part of it was because the early stuff wasn't really thought out too much, so even rotation wouldn't solve some of the odd rules additions. I don't see X-wing having that problem.

I can't speak for the AGOT LCG, but in X-wing only about 25% (or less) of the ships are consistently represented with their generic pilots in high level play, and this is predicted by MathWing. It is fair to conclude that there is a lot of room for improvement, and a lot of things could get tweaked for balance in a 2nd edition.

And the game is much, much more than the top tier. And by early stuff, I am talking about rules stuff (look up "moribund"). The X-wing rules are pretty solid, at worse, we may see a tightening of the rules.

And the game is much, much more than the top tier. And by early stuff, I am talking about rules stuff (look up "moribund"). The X-wing rules are pretty solid, at worse, we may see a tightening of the rules.

I'm not as worried about the rules as the balance itself.

More balanced competitive play equals more fun casual play. There is a positive correlation.

Well I remember this movie that came out in 1977 that a lot of folks said would be a flash in the pan, but it still seems to be kicking new products and spin off's along. So I reckon the game is going to be safe for a while.

I don't like thinking about 5-10 years because I don't want to see my investment to go to waste

It's hard to imagine FFG not releasing a new core set that involves new trilogy ships.

Nope. Easy to imagine.

Given that it's a huge cash cow, I don't see why they wouldn't want to milk it for the long haul. Ultimately, I think it will be up to LFL/Disney's strategic decisions. So far so seeming good, though, unless Disney gets the hair-brained idea to insource the game.

I do think there are still a number of EU ships that could contribute to the game, but I do hope that Rebels and the new movies gives us a bit more screen time of those different EU ships.

And the game is much, much more than the top tier. And by early stuff, I am talking about rules stuff (look up "moribund"). The X-wing rules are pretty solid, at worse, we may see a tightening of the rules.

I'm not as worried about the rules as the balance itself.

More balanced competitive play equals more fun casual play. There is a positive correlation.

I have no reason to doubt that it's so, but how are you interpreting the different virtues/requirements of competitive vs casual play?

I think there was at least 200 people at worlds? Or close to it.

Its pretty healthy now. I can see it running strong at least another 3-4 years.

I don't like thinking about 5-10 years because I don't want to see my investment to go to waste

Then don't think of it as going to waste. If FFG stop producing the game, they're not likely to suddenly want all your stuff back, are they? You'll still have it, so you'll still be able to play.

I've got a mountain of GW's Epic stuff and they stopped supporting the game a few years back. Doesn't mean I've stopped playing the game. If anything, it's better now that I know they're not going to mess around with it anymore.

I don't like thinking about 5-10 years because I don't want to see my investment to go to waste

Then don't think of it as going to waste. If FFG stop producing the game, they're not likely to suddenly want all your stuff back, are they? You'll still have it, so you'll still be able to play.

"Honey, FFG called and they want their toys back!"

I've got a mountain of GW's Epic stuff and they stopped supporting the game a few years back. Doesn't mean I've stopped playing the game. If anything, it's better now that I know they're not going to mess around with it anymore.

Interesting - do you also find that there's a vibrant community that plays this game?

I do feel like my opportunities to play X-Wing are because there are a lot of people in my town who play it, and I can encounter them at the FLGS. If it were just up to my personal social circle, I'd really not have much opportunity to play. I wonder how viable such communities are when a game is not in print.

I think it depends on how much of a 'consumer' you are and, how much of a 'storyteller' you are and how much of a 'gamer' you are.

If you need a shiny new release every quarter to keep your attention then you may have to worry about a finite life span.

Being more into narrative play i can see my own interest in the game dwindling when my heart stops beating.

I actually *prefer* playing games that are good but then run their course as you're not constantly getting out your wallet to keep up.

My friends and I play 1st edition 40k (rogue trader) , i play with the same rulebook i bought in 1987 and with pre 1990 minis. we sometimes play necromunda, mordheim, WHFRP, 3rd Edition Fantasy Battle... i havent bought a new GW army for over a decade but the game has not got boring as it was a good system to start with in each case.

Personally i've got enough stuff and rules to give me the tools to make fun scenarios and games of xwing for decades already, sure new stuff is nice and im as excited as anyone else when somehting truly cool is revealed but I wouldnt be heartbroken if FFG said 'right thats it, we're done after S&V'.

I don't even need a '2nd edition' although a stand alone rule book with FAQ corrections in it would be nice.

I also appreciate though if you *dont* have a gaming group or that organised play is your bag then you really rely on those new releases to keep the game from having one apex list... its just being a narrative/scenario player you dont get that really.

I just play at our local wargaming club where we've got about 12-15 regulars. Out of those, there are about 5-6 X-wing players and 4 Epic players. Not exactly a "vibrant community", but it's only a small town.

If you're getting a game in a week you probably play more than a lot of people do.

If only one or two of those 4 or 5 is into the game for the depth you can get it and is a friend then there is no reason why you cant be playing it for ever.

Like i say Andy and I grew up playing Rogue Trader, played newer editions when we worked at GW together but when we both left GW we decided to play the version we loved as kids and still do.

I'm not as worried about the rules as the balance itself.

More balanced competitive play equals more fun casual play. There is a positive correlation.

I have no reason to doubt that it's so, but how are you interpreting the different virtues/requirements of competitive vs casual play?

Competitive play is Paul Heaver figuring out how to win at Worlds again. At that level you can't afford to take a TIE Advanced. (Sorry Rick Sidebotham! )

At the casual level you just want to throw some random ships on the table and have fun with them. But even that is way better when half the ships aren't underpowered / overcosted. When was the last time you flew 5 naked Y-wings even casually? That was the first thing one of my buddies did when we played a couple games. The intent of my House Rules is to make the casual game more fun by opening up the viable meta game.

I'm really not that worried about 5 years from now. This game is already a blast with two factions and within the next six months we'll have three. We're going to be able to play X-wing for a long time, and from what I understand the plans for wave 7 and 8 are already in motion.

I have to disagree with this idea that X-Wing will be in trouble when it runs out of new releases. IMO it's the exact opposite, X-Wing will be in trouble if/when it has too many new releases and it starts turning into a GW-style mess of rules bloat and constantly adding new stuff to the game just keep you buying $50 books. This is actually my biggest concern right now, we keep getting new stuff and I think it's starting to dilute the quality of the game a bit. So much design space has already been used up and I'm not sure how much is left, or if FFG will be willing to recognize that they've run out of good ideas and say "the game is finished now".

When was the last time you flew 5 naked Y-wings even casually?

But I really don't see why this is a problem. Having balanced rules doesn't mean that deliberately making a bad list has to be impossible. The y-wing is a dedicated secondary weapon platform, complaining that naked y-wings aren't very good makes about as much sense as complaining that naked HWKs aren't very good.