@Zaltyre & @Aaronzea & @anyoneelsewhogivesa*&^% ...

What I really would like to see is an expansion that includes encounters/quests/campaigns that utilize MAP PIECES from all of the expansions.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about the kind of encounters/quests/interludes/finales that could be created by mixing pieces from multiple sets. This is quite frankly one of the reasons my group enjoys D1e more, as this occurs with that game, and the dungeons can absolutely be EPIC.

Now I know that in general D2e's dungeons are smaller so as to take a minimal amount of time playing.

But that was my whole original point about the Heirs of Blood expansion. It would be fairly simply to introduce such a book which simply specified which expansions were required, and to allow that EPIC feel.

Perhaps if the initial book is successful, others will follow. Either way, I will be buying it, as I have to have it all ...

Humm there is lots of criticism of this first campaign book only utilizing the base game. As someone who owns most of the expansions (don't have Manor) I totally feel the frustration of it seeming like a lost opportunity for a creative campaign with really diverse looking monsters and quest maps, instead of it feeling like Shadow Rune 2.0.

Quests with Open Group monsters means we can incorporate monsters from expansions, so that's good. We can use lieutenant plot decks to bring in at least one of our favorite other lieutenants from an expansion. The travel deck will have all the travel cards in it (other than those from SoN), same with the secret room/rumor decks. The shop decks will also have everything in it. Conditions will depend on class/monster choices. So is it really the map tiles that we feel are being wasted? If so, I agree, the map is a huge part of the atmosphere of a quest and the primary way you feel you are in a different world from the base game.

I wonder if there is a way to create a campaign book campaign (positive its not how this first one will be) that will have quests that leave certain map tiles of a quest/encounter open for selection. As in when the quest is selected, depending on the special rules players choose maybe one big tile or some smaller ones per quest restrictions. It could be a reward for winning encounter one or the Act I part of the quest tree, or maybe just part of the special rules giving the OL/heroes the choice. I am not sure if that makes sense thematically or not.

All of FFGs expansions are independent of the others, and I like it that way- I don't feel shorted of the use of map pieces from different . We can incorporate all of the other components (monsters, heroes, etc) into it, and the quest vault exists to make all kinds of mixed expansion maps.

Wow that came out of nowhere.

I feel torn on this however. While the thing I was looking forward the most in a new expansion was a new campaign-book and this is excactly that, it feels strange so far.

The main problem is that it only uses components from the base game. That isn't a bad thing in itself and I don't mind the basic artworks, but the expansion-tiles made a new gameplay-mechanic possible: highly connected maps with different ways to the same room. This is by far the thing I enjoy the most in the big box expansions: More options to get where you want, not as easy to completely block up etc.

However the first interlude in the shadow-rune campaign and recent H&M pack quests showed that this style of maps isn't entirly impossible with just the base set.

Here are some other details I noticed.

The article speeks of 32 new ENCOUNTERS not quests and although these all could be 1-encounter-quests I think this won't be the case. This means minus 2 finals and 2 interludes and one introduction this book contains 27 quest encounters which means roughly 13 quests or 6-7 act I and 6-7act II quests, given they do mainly 2 encounter quests. If this is the case this book has around 2 completely different playthroughs.

The article speeks of a highly cinematic expirience and it's a real book much like RPGs. This or last Gencon Christian Petterson said he would love to do more RPG stuff and that Descent 2 is his most played game atm, because of the managable length of it's encounters. Then he went on to say that he would want to make more RPG like products, so it could be entirly possible that this is some kind of RPG-like campaign, which could interoduce an entirly new campaign structure and maybe what I said about the 2 completely different playthroughs turns out to be build on false assumptions and thus irrelevant. The emphasis on how each decision influences the whole campaign also supports this theory.

Then it wents on to say that this is the first book-expansion, so maybe there are more to come and maybe they release one for each big-box-expansion as well.

All in all I can only say I'm intrigued and probably get this if the quests aren't straight corridors but more interconnected. The idea of a more integral story meaningfull story impacting decisions sound extremly cool and Descent was lacking in this regard for the longest time.

What a good way to release Descent content without taking up miniature-factory capacities, needed to fulfill the SW:IA demand.

I will get it.

But I hope that future campaign books will be created that call for more than just the base game. FFG might not be comfortable with making a campaign book that uses materials from many different expansions, but how about each subsequent campaign book focuses on just one expansion. It would seem viable at least to create a new Labyrinth of Ruin expansion campaign and a new Shadow of Nerekhall expansion campaign.

Looking forward to this quite a bit - having all the 2nd ed material as well as the 1st ed conversion kit the option of a brand new full campaign is just what i want.

Complaining that it is only base game compatible is almost verging on obtuse to me, FFG have a long long standing policy of making the descent expansions only require the base game because that is the one thing that they can guarantee all descent owners have - which is **** sensible. One of the things that irritates me most with the expansions is new conditions that are only reliably ever going to see play in their respective campaigns - same for relics and lieutenants.

Yes, i would love to see an official additional campaign book for LoR and SoN and would love one that combines all 3 but the first one in the series is going to be base game only - if you want to see the other type at all then this needs to succeed so that FFG keep going with the idea and maybe change policy a little bit.

And besides, any descent goodness is cool with IA on the horizon.

The only problem to me about using only the base game tiles is simple : thoses are really ugly !

I hope they would redo them soon

I like it. The ridiculous tidal wave of expansions starting around Nerekhall turned me totally off Descent. This I actually might see myself picking up exactly because it uses only the base game.

Wow, Eliza as the main villain? I never thought I'd see the day when I would contemplate picking up her Lieutenant Pack!

She is such a weak lieutenant though (largely considered the worst one, in fact...).. can she really carry so many quests on her shoulders? I wonder if they'll give her a bunch of buffs in the quest rules.. she definitely could use them.

I am a little bummed that it is base-set only.. but if they allow for at least a few open groups in each quest than I can at least use most of my expansion content...

So many tiles are going to remain unused though

Its probably not going to happen, but if its cheaper and faster for them to bring out these sorts of campaign books, it would be sweet to see more which allow the use of our expansion tiles and features like portcullis, foliage, elevation, etc...

I wouldn't state that she is gonna be the final boss character. The last picture shows the other 2 Farrows as well.

As we consider the background of these characters, then Alric Farrow is dead and Eliza her husband,Merick, will stop at nothing to resurrect his brother. Eliza could be the evil mind behind it all to bring the Dark Knight back to life...

As far as the unused tiles go, I don't see a problem with it. Giving the fact that many people like the co-op night kit(s), it show that using the base tiles is still good and interesting. Personally I prefer a good story above new tiles.

I think we can be pretty sure there are going to be open groups...if not FFG would take away the tactical advantage of the Overlord. So far they didn't state this was gonna be co-op so an Overlord player will be present. Rest assured, open groups will be in it.

What excites me the most is apparently the choices you can make. Ok the base game let you pick quests as well but now it seems after a certain quest you can either go "left or right". Going for an easier route might provide easier early gameplay but may cost you in the end. That aspect of gameplay is why I love RPG's.

As someone with a bit of insight into that product, I have to say it is an awesome campaign to play. Defenitely worth to get if you are concerned about the Shadow Rune Campaign.

Morthai ... it would seem from the description of the product that the campaign will only leverage aspects of the base game (tiles, etc.).

Is this really the case? If it is, that is unfortunate. They had an opportunity with this product to tie all (or some) of the expansions together. They could have identified on the product what expansions were required to play the campaign.

Never the less, I will probably purchase it, as I would expect that the designers should have had plenty of time and play testing, not to mention experience from FAQ entries etc., to produce a superb product - I hope this is indeed the case.

FFG's releases are sadly bound to a rule that expansions may never base on another expansions; so they will probably stick with the basegame. Nonetheless will it will probably bring a quite new spin on the base campaign with a different narrative drive.

Wow, Eliza as the main villain? I never thought I'd see the day when I would contemplate picking up her Lieutenant Pack!

She is such a weak lieutenant though (largely considered the worst one, in fact...).. can she really carry so many quests on her shoulders? I wonder if they'll give her a bunch of buffs in the quest rules.. she definitely could use them.

Eliza is a really cool character, her lieutenant pack has quite neat cards, I doubt that as the main villian of a campaign, that she will be portraited weak.

I think it's cool that the next expansion is just a campain book. At this point we have so many tiles, monsters, heroes , cards ect. that now we ust need more quests and caimpains to use those. It would be even better if the Heirs of Blood would use not only core set but also expansions but that can come in future. It looks like it will start a new type of expansions for Descent - campain books. I'm ok with that!

What kind of price point is this going to be? What price point makes it not worth getting?

Well it says 24.95 on it's product page.

As far as being worth getting... that depends on how much of the content you already own and have exhausted playing. I myself haven't gotten around to playing through all of the campaigns that came with the expansions I've bought so it may not be entirely worth it since I want to play through those first. BUT, I do like the fact that I have more options in campaigns without having to purchase another big box.

24.95 seems pretty steep - that's only $10 away from a small box expansion, where you get figures and cards as well.

As someone with a bit of insight into that product, I have to say it is an awesome campaign to play. Defenitely worth to get if you are concerned about the Shadow Rune Campaign.

Morthai ... it would seem from the description of the product that the campaign will only leverage aspects of the base game (tiles, etc.).

Is this really the case? If it is, that is unfortunate. They had an opportunity with this product to tie all (or some) of the expansions together. They could have identified on the product what expansions were required to play the campaign.

Never the less, I will probably purchase it, as I would expect that the designers should have had plenty of time and play testing, not to mention experience from FAQ entries etc., to produce a superb product - I hope this is indeed the case.

FFG os sadly bound to a rule that expansions may never base on another expansions; so they had to stick with the basegame. Nonetheless will it bring a quite new spin on an campaign as it will have story arcs and a cohesive red threat it will follow. On the way through the campaign you will encounter alot of new ways to play with your basegame; and the missions are full of fluff and background informations. It really feels like a story you are playing.

I look forward to seeing the book. Some of the "clarifications/expoundings" you have provided in responses to others has certainly wet my appetite !

One other thought came to mind, as I was reading all of the responses. It would seem to me that if this book is successful, it would provide another avenue for generating more co-ops. In fact, one could argue that a single book could have multiple co-ops inside.

I will get it.

But I hope that future campaign books will be created that call for more than just the base game. FFG might not be comfortable with making a campaign book that uses materials from many different expansions, but how about each subsequent campaign book focuses on just one expansion. It would seem viable at least to create a new Labyrinth of Ruin expansion campaign and a new Shadow of Nerekhall expansion campaign.

I don't see why they just don't have some of the quests to be optional based on the expansions you own - i.e 6 ACT I quests are Core, and 1 for trollfiens, LoR, LoTW, SoN and Manor of Ravens. If this is too many expansion quests for one ACT, divide the choices across ACT I and ACT II.

If you have the expansions you can choose them, if not you have stick with the Core quests. It seems a pretty simple if you ask me and gives collectors and base only owners content they can enjoy. It would also encourage players to buy the expansions as they have a greater choice of quests

As I have invested so much in the extra expansions, it would be nice to be able to get some more value out of them. The base game gets a little dull by itself and is something the made the co-op versions lacking of replayability.

I don't see why they just don't have some of the quests to be optional based on the expansions you own - i.e 6 ACT I quests are Core, and 1 for trollfiens, LoR, LoTW, SoN and Manor of Ravens. If this is too many expansion quests for one ACT, divide the choices across ACT I and ACT II.

If you have the expansions you can choose them, if not you have stick with the Core quests. It seems a pretty simple if you ask me and gives collectors and base only owners content they can enjoy. It would also encourage players to buy the expansions as they have a greater choice of quests

As I have invested so much in the extra expansions, it would be nice to be able to get some more value out of them. The base game gets a little dull by itself and is something the made the co-op versions lacking of replayability.

I find this idea just fantastic. I wish FFG hears you and take it into their minds. This just would leave the Interlude and Grand Finale a bit more limited (maptile limited, I mean).

BTW, anyone noticed that they talked in the article about a 3-encounter Grand Finale?

I wouldn't state that she is gonna be the final boss character. The last picture shows the other 2 Farrows as well.

As we consider the background of these characters, then Alric Farrow is dead and Eliza her husband,Merick, will stop at nothing to resurrect his brother. Eliza could be the evil mind behind it all to bring the Dark Knight back to life...

I think the story has always been that after Alric died, Eliza married and corrupted Merick and taught him how to bring his brother back with necromancy (since she's a vampire). I seem to remember their backstory blurb saying something about that.

Lord Merrick married abruptly after his brother Sir Alric died, and his new bride Eliza was, all agreed, comely and well-spoken. But many also now feel that the marriage marked the beginning of his slide to evil…

So I think it's safe to assume Eliza is the evil genius behind the Farrows, which is pretty effing cool IMO. Eliza's always been my favorite of the original 6 lieutenants, even if she herself is somewhat on the weaker side (in terms of being a bruiser, though I've always found her to be pretty good if you utilize her abilities properly).

I'm just sad we'll never get an Eliza miniature with that amazing bow.

I'm just sad we'll never get an Eliza miniature with that amazing bow.

Never say never !

Nerekhall was impressive in exactly one regard - the quests were really good. I was pretty unimpressed by all the other cards in the box - a lot of retreads, typos, and bad ideas. (Okay, there are a few good monsters.) So the idea of something that focuses only on the campaign seems like a good idea.

On the other hand, I see a bunch of problems with this. While I don't really care about the tiles themselves, not using any expansion content means that there's a ton of other great stuff that they're not using. The problem with that - to me - is that it makes the other expansions (ESPECIALLY the small boxes) seem like a waste. They're adding a bunch of stuff that is NEVER going to get used. And I agree that the price seems pretty steep for what it is - at $15 it would probably be an automatic buy, at $25 I'll probably give it a miss unless the reviews are absolutely incredible.

For $25, it would be nice if they provided something a little more elaborate than the big-box campaigns, if that's all you're getting - a larger, more branching quest tree structure, more encounters, something like that. If there were 40-50 encounters - including some small number specifically tied to other expansions - it would be worthwhile. Alternately - and I think this is probably the way that they should go - I would be fine if they upped the cost of the small-box expansions slightly, but included a full campaign. As it is, though, I just don't see a whole lot of value in Manor of Ravens or future small boxes; I actually wish I had only purchased one of them, rather than the first two. If they had a campaign, the value would be there.

On the other hand, I see a bunch of problems with this. While I don't really care about the tiles themselves, not using any expansion content means that there's a ton of other great stuff that they're not using. The problem with that - to me - is that it makes the other expansions (ESPECIALLY the small boxes) seem like a waste. They're adding a bunch of stuff that is NEVER going to get used.

The small box quests can come into play as rumors during this campaign, just like any other full length campaign (I assume.)

I think the story has always been that after Alric died, Eliza married and corrupted Merick and taught him how to bring his brother back with necromancy (since she's a vampire). I seem to remember their backstory blurb saying something about that.

Always since D2E, perhaps.

If you want to incorporate older material from the RB/D1E, it would be more accurate to say Eliza introduced Merrick to Lord Vorakesh, who taught him the secrets of necromancy in the Shadow Academy. She's still the corrupting influence in his life, and she has probably taken over the puppet master role since Vorakesh's ultimate defeat.

IIRC it was actually Vorakesh who resurrected Alric, and in return Merrick pledged his allegiance to Vorakesh (and the forces of evil in general) for doing so. Merrick learned necromancy after his brother was back up and running.

Vorakesh and Eliza (then known as Lady Cathori) were in cahoots for a long time before she married Merrick Farrow. Given that we now officially know she's a vampire, and he reknowned necromancer, they were probably partners for a very, very long time.

==

As for the campaign book, I'm actually very excited about this news. More fluff and less power creep, since they aren't introducing any new heroes/classes/monsters/items that need to be more awesome than anything that's come before. Hopefully the story in this campaign will contain more distinct ties to the Terrinoth setting - I've noticed that although D2E started out strong in that regard, the expansion campaigns have become significantly more generic since Adam left.

If this book sells well, I could certainly see them doing campaign books that include other expansion material later. They did something similar with the D1E Quest Compendium; including a number of quests, some of which required expansions but most of which did not.

I think it would be wiser, though, to make campaign books that only require one expansion at a time. Prevents too many people from being turned away for not owning the expansion and allows them to focus on a continuous story centered around the themes of the chosen expansion. Trying to make one campaign book that used everything would probably end up with a very scattered plot.

I like the idea of having extra quests that are used with expansions, or maybe some dungeons which come with a base and a full own expansion... I don't know, I do look forward for some awsome quests though, I might change some maps (very little) just to use the maps from other expansions.

Why can't we get campaigns that include all the expansions (and co-op) as Print On Demand options? Save the books for campaigns tied to the base game or a particular expansion - but don't neglect the people who have everything ...

And honestly, I'm glad that this book is coming out. Once the hero/monster packs complete the D1 re-imagining, there will be plenty of material for this game to last forever. More stories and campaigns are what is needed now so this is the right direction IMO.

how do I delete this lol?

So, the more I look at Heirs of Blood the more I like the idea. We have so many tiles now, monsters and Heroes that there is no need to have too mucdh more. If You do not have a good organised boxes the set-up for each map takes a little longer. Besides nothing stands in Your way to use rumours in this campain so You can use all expansions with it. The fact that it uses only Core Set is not so bad. I'm optimistic about it and in the annoucement they say it's the first campain book so maybe more will come.

At this point Descent 2e is a huge game so maybe it's time to slow down the line. In 1e we had only one book with quests and after it and Sea of Blood the game ended. I hope it's not a sign of ending the line but of change. That FFG will be now pushing other titles forward and give them more attention and Descent will still be developt but slower. Of course every game at some point is closed but I tgink it's not yeat time for 2e, especialy before one more small box with 2 heroes (Mage and Healer class).

cheers

PS. Has anyone noticed that Runebound forum deos not existe any more, it's gone. Does this mean it will not come back or be republished in a new edition? HMm make me wonder maybe FFG will slow down with Descent 2e, then repleace it with a new Runebound and then end the D2e. Just a thought.