It's been a while since I've GM'ed for this system and I have a few locals at our FLGS who'd like me to GM a game. I figured it would be a neat way to get people into the system so why not?

Anyway, the last time I GM'ed a campaign I was writing as I went along and there was pressure to keep coming up with new arcs and content to throw at my players and it became a little unsatisfactory as a GM. A last saving throw was to make a sandbox campaign but it kind of fell apart after that.

This time around I'd like to make an underlying plot to define the adventure before sitting down twith the player party and finding out individudal motivations to define the filler adventures. I hope this will work, giving my players an interesting a meaty story while I'm padding out the mystery of the main campaign. I could spoil the ideas, but who knows if any of my players are lurking?

Anyway I'm finding my approach is essentially making a puzzle, and then needing to find a way to unravel it. I need to know when the antagonists are moving and in what ways it would be visible, and then find ways for the players to discover clues to this deeper conspiracy. Where should I put leads? How would following those leads be resolved? What would be the consequences of false leads? How would I get the player party back on track when they've deviated too far from where I want them to be?

I'm posting not only to share thoughts with fellow GMs, but to ask if anyone else has plotted very deep, rich campaign stories and if anyone has any tips.

I have a similar idea and I just finished writing the set up. I know none of my playersare lurking (assuming they did not ignore my request), so I have no qualms sharing.

In my campaign a Black Sun Vigo has had declining incomes. To avoid pressure from Prince Xizor he devises a plan to redirect that pressure onto another Vigo. But how does he steal the business of his colleague without the rest of the Vigos and Xizor finding out? He creates a new identity for himself and starts recruiting help. Then, he stages a capture of some scum and fringers. He blames it on his target Vigo, and promises to help the scum and fringers get back at the guy. Really, he is using them to disrupt the target Vigo so he can swoop in and fill the gaps.

It is a bit convoluted, and I honestly don't know much about the Black Sun aside from what I read in the WEG Shadows of the Empire sourcebook and the EotE core rule book. My players are the pawns here. This ambitious Vigo puts them in jail and then frees them himself telling the PCs that it was the other Vigo that did it, they crossed him somehow and he was trying to eliminate him. If they help the ambitious Vigo he will help them get back at the target Vigo.

I've already got it set up in the first session for the players to find little hints that not everything is what it seems. On top of that, I've left it open to the possibility that they outright refuse this guy and if they do so they get some clues as to who he really is. But then what?

That's where I am right now. I'm reluctant to plan more until I know the path the players take. We are only going to play once a month, so I have time between sessions to plan and plot.

I'm partial to sticking to the core movies as backdrop. I'm just more motivated and more interested that way. Ultimately, the MAIN story will come down to avoiding or working for Jabba the Hutt, aiding the Rebel Alliance, and avoiding the Empire. I determine that (somehow) the group (regardless of motivations or obligations) will become entangled in one of these plotlines. By working through their characters, somebody in their backgrounds will be involved and draw them into it either directly or indirectly.

Some indirect attachments???

• Running supplies or Smuggling (unknowingly for a group of Rebels. They're just doing a job.)
• Any criminal activity can easily be tied to the Hutts through 2 or 3 connections.
• Someone they know is an actual spy or gets caught up in the rebellion.
• Work for a Senator, merchant.
• Bounty Hunting steps on some toes or is a bounty wanted by the Empire or Hutts.
• They owe and obligation to someone who owes and obligation to the Empire, Hutts, or Alliance. Indirectly, they pay off their obligation, thereby helping the Rebels and becoming implicated as assisting them.

The rich and deep plots of the Galaxy are intrigue enough. On the surface, the group is making a names for themselves, earning credits, collecting bounties, or whatever. Little to they know that the moves they are making are should up on the radar of the big fish in the universe. It should come as a surprise later to find out that they've been involved in deeper stories.

The current group has a Jawa who survived the slaughter by Stormtroopers on Tatooine, a loner woman swoop gang type, and an ex-Imperial mercenary who's a distant relative of the Antilles family. The Rebellion isn't really even news here on the Outer Rim. The Merc got drummed out of the military because a distant relative he never knew of did something against the Empire (Wedge Antilles). The idea is to ultimately pull them into supporting the Rebellion but right now they are earning a living doing whatever they can. I think at some point they'll have a choice to either help someone thwart the Empire's plans or allow the Empire to triumph (which no one really wants). It'll be much like Han Solo was a reluctant participant for quite a while.

That's how i do it:

I do session 0 with my players to define the overarching story line and how they got togather (they always start togather. I hate to those "you meet in a tavern" scenes)

For the plot i follow this questions with my players: http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-13070.html .

After that, i ask each player at last 3 questions ranging from "Can i use heavy languague?" to "how do you meet each other?" or "Character X did something shameful in the past. What was it?". This helps to create a lot of flavor.

After this you'll have a storyline, someplot hooks and flavor to work it.

The next step is to define a finite number of "episodes" (session) for your "season", with the last "episode" being the end of the overarching story line.

After that, the only prep i do before each session is to think on the concept of 4 or 5 encounters. If you can improvise, flesh they out with the dice results and your player creativity. I usually let my players decide a lot of things on the fly (i even created a thread here as i was afraid of doing something wrong).

To create the encounters i recommend reading this article: http://angrydm.com/2013/05/four-things-youve-never-heard-of-that-make-encounters-not-suck/

And listening to the new Order 66 podcast episode 21 "Ins't it Episodic (Don't you think)?"

Oh, and of course. The "Yes, and..." rule is on all time.

TL;DR: Ask a lot to your players and share the creative burden with they. Read the article and listen to the order 66 episode.

I outline my process on my blog, but here are a few tips;

• Ignore the advice "no story survives first contact with the Players" not only are they butchering Patton, but they are Butchering the Prussian General he borrowed it from. Additionally they are lazy story writers that can't think of multiple ways to do things.
• Never design a story that only has 1 way to accomplish it.
• Combat is good, but combat for a reason is better. Make your Players have a reason to get invested in their characters and have the character want to fight. Don't just put combat for combat's sake, what brought it on? is it something that makes sense?
• Treat the Galaxy like it is alive and that actions have consequences, good and bad. If your Players do something, someone or something is affected, show them through events how it was affected via the story.
• Keep a notepad/book of blank pages and a pen around. When you get an idea while watching a TV show or a movie, you don't want to have to rush to figure out something to write ti down on... do it right then. Even if it is gibberish or random brainstorming. I turned a one line note to myself into a (so far) 3 session storyline all because I didn't throw it away. You never know when a brainstorm turns into something awesome, so don't throw away potential ideas.
• If you design out a 3 part mission and somehow your players skip a full set of encounters, don't throw away the skipped encounters, put those to the side and use them later, they can be reused with a few tweaks and it saves time.

That is about all I have without getting preachy about my style. Anything else is on my blog and can be seen under the "design" category.

Hopefully some of that translates to what can help someone else.

P.S. Never a fan of someone that says "listen to the Order 66 podcast" to find the information being asked about. It may or may not be useful information, but if you can't paraphrase the information in your own words, it didn't teach you enough to understand it, so it most likely won't for the next person.

Ignore the advice "no story survives first contact with the Players" not only are they butchering Patton, but they are Butchering the Prussian General he borrowed it from. Additionally they are lazy story writers that can't think of multiple ways to do things.

As someone that actually use this sentence i feel compelled to say that she is not used only by lazy writers. It is usually used as a warning and a reminder that improvisation will be required sooner or later. (On other words: Don't try to control everything)

P.S.: laziness and trying to create smaller answers are also reasons to no paraphrase one order 66 episode.

I won't derail the conversation by going further than my comments already said, but I stick by them as accurate and fair.

There are several types of GMs and the only type that is bad, is one that causes the Players to not have fun. That being said my comments are based on my GM'ing and their comments about past GMs. As a GM your job is to work with the Players to tell a story. Mediating the dice rolls is a big part as well. If you rely on platitudes and excuses that is your option, in my opinion that is short changing your Players.

I've done a few campaigns, and what works best for me is to have the beginning characters start off connected somehow. Then I run one or two somewhat generic beginner-level adventures, and from there start to figure out where the story is going to go next. At some point, I do "game maintenance" sessions where I ask how the players are enjoying the game, what they would like to see, and what they haven't liked.

That being said, I would love to run an epic campaign with shades of Lord of the Rings or something of that nature. I tried to do that with the old Saga Edition, but I don't think the players ever got into it. At least part of that was my fault--I was coming back into GMing after taking a long break, and really underestimated how much I would have to prepare, but it was also not exactly something the players were interested in. I was giving them intricate mysteries and intrigue, they were more looking for rollicking high adventure and a chance to blast some baddies. Not that you can't have both in an RPG, but still...

What bothers me is at this point, my brother is running us through a mini-campaign he designed to playtest the Force and Destiny beta, and he has done the campaign setup almost exactly right, as far as I'm concerned. There's an overarcing mystery, but there is also a lot of freedom for us to do what we want. It's also his first actual campaign. Some people are just born to do this, what can I say...

I'm down to chime in. I'd like to think I have a pretty unique style of DM'ing. When playing in an established universe, I usually have my overarching stories involve the start of something established or an explanation for something that doesn't make sense.

Two examples off the top of my head -- One of my big modern Star Wars campaigns that took place between Episodes 3 and 4 was having my players accidentally download a secret code and began getting hunted for it. In the end, it led to their involvement with the Bothan Spynet and, more importantly, the Empires big attempt to disrupt and destroy it. Ultimately, the Empire was trying to shake the very foundations of Bothan society by creating a civil war between Kothlis and Bothawui and portray distrust and corruption in the Spynet itself.

Of course it was stopped by the players in the end (After really, REALLY coming close to success), but it explained two things: First, why the Empire never tried going after the Bothan Spynet again when it was clearly the source of Rebel intelligence (It was a 10 year Operation the Empire had going to create the grounds of unrest between the two planets).

Second, it actually explained Borsk Fey'lya's rise to power as a Bothan born on Kothlis (Where traditionally Bothans are not respected at all.). He played a big role in the political aspects of a coming war, and additionally held back the war just long enough for the truth to come out and war dissipate. For this he was heralded as a hero.

The second was a Knights of the Old Republic Era campaign in which ultimately it was about the founding of the White Current. I'd love to detail this campaign, but unfortunately it was a very personal one that involved Jedi training, the code, love, and so on. It detailed everything down to even why women are only trained in the White Current. A fantastic campaign!

So yes . . . this to me is how I usually DM. My stories are part of the established universe . . . and yet not all at once. I respect players and DM's who play in their universe, but I find it rather cheesy and . . . "easy" to break lore. I find it much more difficult, and rewarding, to sidestep it perfectly.

If your players kill Darth Vader, and Darth Vader comes on screen, . . . meh, nobody bats an eye. But if your players had a HUGE hand in helping the Bothan Spynet stay alive and inspired that story from behind the scenes, when somebody mentions the Spynet, my players get a little smile on their face.

Someone posted this on another thread and it absolutly bares repeating here. This is the best advice I have ever read on seeding clues into a mystery style campaign.

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule

Having said that: My players have just begun thier plot line. eventually they will face some large players in the universe, (No one major, those guys are all window dressing as far as I am concerned, maybe they will spot Slave 1 at a Starport or something.) I have begun to drop tiny foreshadowing hints here and there during other, unconnected adventures. "Slicing a transportation company's computer? Advantage finds a hidden file with a ship's manifest containing the BBEGs name. Different Adventure, Hiding behind crates in a smuggler's warehouse? Find a seal on a crate belonging to the BBEGs Shipping company (read: smuggling operation.)" Most recently I encorporated the Under a Black Sun adventure, and my group decided to blow up a hidden warehouse full of illigal Arms. They are now officially on the BBEGs radar (it was his shippment) and they still only have hints he even exists. Eventually, they will discover he is now after them, and will have the opportunity to stop his larger plot to take over the organization he works for, thus garnering the favor of the Organization's ruler.

This doesn't even get into the larger plot by another organization that is using the BBEG as a puppet to gain control of the original Organization.

Bottom Line:

The above link is great and the wessite has many more great ideas.

No one major, those guys are all window dressing as far as I am concerned, maybe they will spot Slave 1 at a Starport or something.)

They will try to steal it. Letting you know now . . .

Yep, I did run a multi-arc, deep campaign that lasted about a year and a half. At first I fell into the trap of over-prepping but the adage "no story survives contact with the players" is very true. So I spent my prep time familiarizing myself with locales I thought they'd enter, building my GM Holocron with set pieces and NPCs, and organizing my tools to make GMing off-the-cuff easier.

Additionally, I boosted the concept of Fronts from Dungeon World, although I realize that game didn't invent them, they just codified it in an easy-to-digest format. So, I set up 3-4 fronts around the area the PCs were in or going to, postulated how they could interact with my players, and jotted a few quick notes on it. This gave me seemingly random events to put on the table and the PCs' action directly affected the outcome and thus the ongoing wheels of the story.

Okay, now for the TL;DR: if you're tasked with coming up with a story every week, let the players do the bulk of the work, just make sure you have the framework ready for their ideas by being familiar with the setting and rules and having your tools ready to go.

• Ignore the advice "no story survives first contact with the Players" not only are they butchering Patton, but they are Butchering the Prussian General he borrowed it from. Additionally they are lazy story writers that can't think of multiple ways to do things.

I disagree - you haven't met my players. But that aside, the advice in question encourages a GM to get off the choo choo. All your story prep doesn't mean diddley if your players don't take any of the hooks and exit stage left within the first 5 minutes of the session. What do you do then, shoehorn them into your story, or use the wealth of information you have and collaboratively build a story with them?

Every table is different, but attacking one style of GMing is counterproductive and frankly rude.

I was not attacking a style of GM'ing. I was attacking a lame platitude that encourages laziness. If you find offense in that maybe you need to work out some issues, but I am fine with multiple styles. I am not fine with lazy.

I was not attacking a style of GM'ing. I was attacking a lame platitude that encourages laziness. If you find offense in that maybe you need to work out some issues, but I am fine with multiple styles. I am not fine with lazy.

Implying utilizing a certain style of GMing is lazy is an attack. No offense taken, though - my interest is building the skills of the OP & other interested readers without introducing FUD.

It's quite lazy to not properly quote the post to which you're replying, eh?

To boil down the concept of Fronts, I can't do it any better than the DungeonWorld SRD .

I like to use James Bond movies with some imagination. We are currently in License to Kill, within the first 20 minutes or so. In addition to the drug/crime lord, there is also a doctor that is working on an anti-alien virus.

"no story survives first contact with the players." It's not a lame platitude, nor an excuse for laziness. It's a statement of face, a warning, and a challenge to a GM.

No matter how well or tight your write your encounter, you have anywhere from one to eight other people at your table. They do not think the same way you do, they do not have the same experience, gaming and real life as you, They have read books, seen movies, and talked to people that you have never even encountered. Result? They WILL think of something that never occurred to you. If you write your encounters with only one possible successful outcome, you run the risk of either spoiling your players fun or having them instantly derail your story. While I cannot speak for other GMs, my notes for a game tend to have two main features. The first is a simple list of characters. Next to each name is of course the basics, equipment, traits and quirks, and the rest, but also a thumbnail sketch of personality, motivation, and goals. The second item is the plot design, which often ends up looking like a flow chart. I have the critical scenes listed, with what needs to happen, what should happen, what would be nice to happen, and any incidentals that come to mind. Maps are a nice extra. The connections between scenes are largely open, with a line or two of what I THINK will be the connection my players make. Beyond that I leave this part somewhat up in the air. I can't think of everything my players may or may not come up with, so I don't bother to try. Rather, I have notes as to how to nudge them if they run into a brick wall, and a few ideas of my own.

As to how deep, I tend to run character driven sandboxes with a few key scenes. The trick, for me, is to get in the head, at least a bit, of the enemies and important allies. Know their plans and motivations. This will guide you in deciding what they do, giving your players event to react to and try to prevent. Know how they think, how they plan. This will guide you in determining how they react to your players actions

This approach, again, for me, allows for a more interactive game, I like my stories to look like a book or movie in progress, written and determined as much by the players and their actions as my original intent and story. My players take it as a point of pride when they manage to derail or jump outside my original story. They come back to my table because they like my stories, and they enjoy seeing where the story goes when they get outside the original frame. And I take that as a compliment.

No story survives first contact with the players. If they don't push the limits of your original story, at least a little, your players are not as invested in your game and their characters as they could be. Is this a lazy approach? Far from it. A good GM knows his players, and his NPCs well enough to think on his feet, to constantly adapt and adjust to changing story arcs and keep the story evolving with the actions and intents of the players. This is THEIR story. It is their place to rise to the challenge and save the galaxy. It is your task to keep the galaxy in peril, to create a crisis worthy of their heroics.

This is my method. Does it work? I think so. I have old friends who still remember games we played in college 14 years ago. They remember the one liners, the epic moments, and the epic fails. As a GM, I can think of no higher compliment to my work.

Unless they paid me to run the game. Ooooo that would be sweet

No story survives first contact with the players. If they don't push the limits of your original story, at least a little, your players are not as invested in your game and their characters as they could be. Is this a lazy approach? Far from it. A good GM knows his players, and his NPCs well enough to think on his feet, to constantly adapt and adjust to changing story arcs and keep the story evolving with the actions and intents of the players. This is THEIR story. It is their place to rise to the challenge and save the galaxy. It is your task to keep the galaxy in peril, to create a crisis worthy of their heroics.

I agree with every word you typed, especially this piece right here - this is the essence of how I run. I am the PC's biggest fan. If a reader gets nothing else from this discussion but this point, it'll be a success.

When you go with the platitude of saying no encounter survives the first encounter with the players... you are admitting defeat before you start.

Wonder why so many AAA games come out broken? they believe that broken quote. Have games come out that work? yes, plenty of them. So... obviously some survived first contact with the players. Stop justifying lazy.

Don't constrict the options too much, write it for the Players and the characters, watch lots of movies, plan plan plan. The second you believe you are defeated, you... are defeated.

It isn't a "challenge" to a GM or encouraging a GM, it is saying "no matter what your story will fail, and there is zero you can do to stop it". That is 100% BS.

Does that mean every single story will go exactly as you plan? no. Does it mean because 1 or 2 little things go differently than you expected that it "didn't survive" contacting the Players? nope to that too. If it goes wildly wrong/different then guess what, you bought into the garbage too much and failed to plan.

You won't get everything right early on, and that is okay, but the goal is to design a story with the help of the Players that goes smooth and everyone has fun. Does everyone aim for a plan that survives the players? no. You want your campaign to be remembered 10 years later by your players when they are describing how fun this game was when they played it... then you have to plan and ignore 19th century drivel.

NOTE: if you look at http://ralphkeyes.com/quote-verifier/ it points out a bit more practical quote, that is still pessimistic like the misquote everyone loves to banter on with, but at least it tries to be less flimsy in its goal.

edit: added historical factoid

edit: never let a troll bait you

The truth is that you never know what your players will do, the important thing is that everyone has fun. Even if your plot line goes in an unexpected direction, try to embrace it and don't let it get you down.

Norsehound,

In my opinion, the session zero meeting with your players is important to determine how much depth your players and you as the GM want. The suggestion to listen to "Isn't it Episodic" if you are interested in episodic games. I requested it due to the reality of my gaming group. Since my group are mostly busy military members and pick up gamers at the store we play at. For an episodic game, much like a tv series the depth does not come from deep campaign storylines, but for the depth of character interaction and relationships. For our game it was a firefly like game set during the darktimes. One of the best tools to add to the depth of your game is the obligation mechanc.

Salcor

Most of my prospective crowd here are casual players.

A GM I talked to recently said something to the tune of, "Players make good adventurers, but not great storymakers." So I don't think a sandbox is going to work here without some kind of narration to guide them.

What I'm doing right now is laying out the plot for the bad guys. I think I can share since I doubt any of my players are FFG regulars, at least in this section. It'll be a conspiracy within the Imperial Navy before the Battle of Yavin to try carving out some power for themselves to oppose the Emperor. "Historically" this fails and results in the creation of the Grand Admirals, but this is before all that.

Their plot is to have Black Sun and the Hutts go to war with one another. The result would be an increased demand on Navy deployment and expenses, further cementing the conspiracy in places of control. (Of course had they waited the Rebels would have done this for them, but the conspirators are only far-sighted, not prescient).

Once I have the basic outline of the plot and the movement of the antagonists figured out, I'll have Session 0 with my play group and then figure out what kind of filler missions I can give to the players to advance their respective stories. It seems like a good idea so far.

Epic and Marathonian

My actual main game as GM started on the year 1999 (we stopped between 2-3 years). In this story there is a lot on intense emotions and the story its full of mistery, actions, humor, epic moments, romance, philosophy, enigmas, scary moments... I love that game

My game style is 90-95% sandbox and I only prepare key moments and some cinematic events. I played this game with D6, d20, Saga, a Saga+M&M mod, a personal game system adapted to that game and, at last, Edge. Until the moment, Edge is the best system I ever seen and fits almost 100% with out game style and our campaign. Even justified past actions that with old systems where impossible to do unless you use the "GM's touch" XD

My player's main character has grown up from a teenager to a young adult (thanks Sims 3 for that definition XD). Has married 3 times (with the same woman), have some childs and saved the galaxy a few times... really, maybe its not politically correct but I REALLY LOVE THAT GAME!!!

Cinematic, with tons of Hollywood and also alternative cinema