Hi,

I'm a french player, and first I ask for apologize for my bad english.

I didn't understand how does the oath system of Hive Desoleum work exactly. Every one wear a device with all his contracts ? Or everyone is the property of another one and it is recorded in the oath device ? How does it works for strangers in the hive ? Can you please give me some help ?

Another things, does some ones have played the first adventure of the core rulebook ? How was it ?

Thanks !

Everyone has oaths to someone. These oaths are on a device that goes on the wrist.

Strangers in the hive hold no loyalty to the oath system so they don't have a device unless they take an oath.

Forgotten Gods tells us the game effects of the oaths. They give a +10 bonus to WP tests when the character is acting directly in accordance with an oath, but inflict 1d5 Insanity if the character ever breaks an oath.

It seems that the oath system is a form of feudalistic serfdom, and that goods and services would be paid for by labor rather than currency. The Worker's House (DH2 p 334) illustrates the complexity of this system - the House has indentured servants that fill your oath-bound duty while you are there, but now you owe the House both for whatever indulgences you enjoyed during your stay, but also for the guys filling your spot. This debt will go on your oath device until you can repay it. This will most likely involve another oath to someone else. And so it goes.

I've always been curious about the oath cog system, It doesn't make a lot of sense in certain ways. How would one go about obtaining certain necessities such as toiletries, clothes, food and other dailies. The worker house mentions salaries, but elsewhere it just talks about oaths for services. I find this to be particularly confusing, because there's no explanation of where oaths and money begin or end. Does each employer have a kind of 'company store' a la the old time Kentucky coal mines, where you can get whatever you want, it just adds to your servitude, or is there an actual open market where you owe labor to your employer, but get a stipend to spend at the farmers market or gambling dens or whatever. My confusion is further compounded by a lack of detailed description of oath cogs that describe how it might handle oaths to more than one group or individual. Maybe it's less of a clockwork device full of gears and pistons or whatnot and more like a smartphone app that tracks oaths electronically. I guess I just fail to see how the oath system works in any realistic way on a daily basis. Any description that would help me make sense of it would be appreciated.

I would say the first step to understanding such a system is throwing out most ideas of a free-market capitalist system and replacing it with industrial feudalism. It makes most sense that almost everything is done though the oath to one's employer - you give them labor, they give you slightly less than you need to survive; lodgings in the company tenements, food in the communal canteen, a place for your children in the work-training regime. A mining-style "company store" where goods can be obtained in exchange with more servitude makes sense - for the low, low price of half an hour extra per day you can rent the famous company brand armchair ^TM ! In my mind, money would be for exchanges between individuals - oaths mainly made for those able to keep track of them. Making small deals with your neighbor on a clockwork device full of pistons and gears is almost impossible, so you don't . The technological limitations create social stasis - what is more 40k than that? What should you trade, anyway? Most of your belongings doesn't belong to you, but if your neighbor wants your lho-stick ration for this week he can pay for it with the tiny scrap of money he has. If he hasn't already spent it on the booze Henlich ferments in those rusty pipes behind the drainage ditch, of course.
Remember that indentured serfs usually do not have the opportunities of the free-market citizen, one simply cannot strike any deal one finds rational, one cannot look for better deals elsewhere - serfdom is designed to hinder any and all social (and often also physical) mobility, keeping the internal structure of the feudal pyramid intact.

Exactly. The things that are bought and sold with barter and valuables are where the Bondless Dealers come in - essentially the grey and black market, and the interface with underhivers and out-hivers who don't run on the same economic system.

for most people, it's exactly as described - you enter an oath of service at manufactorum X for Y years, they are responsible in return oath for providing the means for you to subsist for the same time period. In theory, this keeps all means of supply of food, lodgings, etc for the plebs in the hands of people directly above them in their own feudal structure. Which is good for keeping them from getting uppity.

If you default, of course, it has to be made up in a different way - either finding someone to replace you at work (it specifically mentions relatives of Involute Cadre infantry who are killed in the line of duty having to take up their slot), or by the things you received in return being reposessed.

Equally, if you requisition personnel, you're probably then indebted to whoever they should have been serving at the time. Yes, you can always flash the =][= symbol and tell them to get stuffed, but that's when you start slowly burning influence...

So maybe "Oaths" are comparable to the signing of "contracts" for whatever reason.

When you do groceries, you don't sign contracts, but it could be different when you buy a new car through a loan. So instead of signing a contract and getting a loan for the car, you just take an Oath to pay the car back.

Anything that has a long term effect basically in terms of services or material received/given.

Note, I haven't thoroughly read the Oath/Cog system yet so maybe my take on the system here is way off.

Another question, how does foreigner in Desoleum, do they have an borrowed oath-cog, or are they free from oath-cog ? In this case, how does a sanctionnary recognize him as a foreigner and not as an outlaw ? How does the cloudboys, like the babyface in Dark Poursuit, do they have an oath-cog ?

How do the inquisitor to lie about their identity if they have an oath-cog saying all about them ? And do all people can see what is in the oath-cog of the others ?

Inquisitor will probably have enough influence to get false oathcog that says what they need for their mission (like forged identities and papers). For the rest, I can't help you.

Bonne journée à toi!

Another question, how does foreigner in Desoleum, do they have an borrowed oath-cog, or are they free from oath-cog ? In this case, how does a sanctionnary recognize him as a foreigner and not as an outlaw ? How does the cloudboys, like the babyface in Dark Poursuit, do they have an oath-cog ?

How do the inquisitor to lie about their identity if they have an oath-cog saying all about them ? And do all people can see what is in the oath-cog of the others ?

I believe they are free from having an oath-cog. For payments, they use an alternative method, paying with a certain currency of which I forgot the name.

Page 142 of the core rulebook:

I believe they are free from having an oath-cog. For payments, they use an alternative method, paying with a certain currency of which I forgot the name.

I always thought that as an outsider you get a device that kinda looks a bit like an oathcog that identifies you as an outsider. It doesn't hold any oaths though.

Inquisitor will probably have enough influence to get false oathcog that says what they need for their mission (like forged identities and papers). For the rest, I can't help you.

Bonne journée à toi!

It's highly likely that an Inquisitor will be able to falsify such measures, or maybe someone who's there alot have a real oathcog, but is not bound by it. We have to remember with the Inquisition:

"Thy masters will shall be the whole of the law".

If you're there on official inquisitorial business, who cares what the local costums dictate? You're the inquisition, your word is the law! And if you're there on clandestine matters, well, the best forgeries are not forgeries at all.

Right?

Another question, how does foreigner in Desoleum, do they have an borrowed oath-cog, or are they free from oath-cog ? In this case, how does a sanctionnary recognize him as a foreigner and not as an outlaw ? How does the cloudboys, like the babyface in Dark Poursuit, do they have an oath-cog ?

How do the inquisitor to lie about their identity if they have an oath-cog saying all about them ? And do all people can see what is in the oath-cog of the others ?

Offworlders would not have oath cogs. For dealing with Sanctionaries I would say either some kind of guest ID saying they are offworlders or other forms of ID provided by powerful organizations on the planet that the visitor has business with such as adeptas or merchant houses. Also worth noting that members of adeptas would not have oath cogs either as they are generally not originally from the world they work on and are meant to be above local customs. They represent imperial interests and therefore can't be held to local oaths. My group has been getting around using the badges of our arbites team members and my character's ad mech status.

All depends on the mission and the inquisitor's preferred tactics. If the team needs to pose as locals then fake oath cogs might be a good idea. IDs identifying them as offworld merchants could also be a way to go to remain subtle. They could do like my group and use their official standing with their respective adeptus branch when dealing with officials. Or if they're really feeling bold just use their Inquisition status.

I think to see oaths on an oath cog they need to be plugged into a cogitator or another oath cog or something. At the very least they probably need to be examined closely. They aren't like name tags or anything, telling everyone who walks by who you are. If a player character has an oath cog it should probably either be false info/a cover story or, if it is their real identity, then they should avoid letting potential enemies get their hands on it.

Inquisitor will probably have enough influence to get false oathcog that says what they need for their mission (like forged identities and papers). For the rest, I can't help you.

Bonne journée à toi!

It's highly likely that an Inquisitor will be able to falsify such measures, or maybe someone who's there alot have a real oathcog, but is not bound by it. We have to remember with the Inquisition:

"Thy masters will shall be the whole of the law".

If you're there on official inquisitorial business, who cares what the local costums dictate? You're the inquisition, your word is the law! And if you're there on clandestine matters, well, the best forgeries are not forgeries at all.

Right?

No!

Unless one of the players is an inquisitor, the players are acolytes, e.g. servants of an Inquisitor. All power is vested in the inquisitor. An inquisitor could get away with ignoring local customs although it is likely it would cost him in prestige/influence. Being abrasive has its costs when it comes to humans, even if you can get away with it. For example, an ******* manager stranded at the side of the road will be ignored by his workers while a nice or just a fair manager will likely get assistance if noticed by a worker.

An acolyte doesn't have that kind of clout. Depending on who the acolyte is dealing with, the 'opponent' can tell him to piss off and let his master come and ask the questions. High ranking members of the adeptus or peers of the imperium do not get questioned by 'mere' servants.

The point of the game is to have fun. If flashing an inquisitorial badge solves all challenges, where's the fun? Local customs provide some colour to a particular setting (e.g. hive desoleum). Having to deal with it without it derailing the adventure is IMO part of the fun.

The main thing is to remember when running such a game IMO is that there is always someone with a bigger bat. Indentured factory workers may well quake in their boots (if they actually have boots, this being 40k) when encountering an acolyte. A senior adept may politely inquire what authority an acolyte has, knowing full well he has little but his master's reputation.

And a planetary governor may well tell the inquisitor to refer all his questions to Lord Inquisitor Maximus Powerfull, his dear friend, who has told him not to answer any questions from lesser inquisitors.

Not every governor or adept will tell the players to piss off, nor will perhaps every factory worker comply. Maybe the worker has never heard of the inquisition but he certainly knows his factory foreman and what will happen if he doesn't meet the daily quota. If used with some common sense, the bigger bat will keep things interesting for players.

Just my $0.02.....