Since firing arcs don't seem to over lap, it should be impossible for 2 arcs on the same ship, to hit the same hull zone of an enemy ship. (Interesting corner case if the yellow pip falls exactly on the line between firing arcs...) A close second though in desirability is getting 2 firing arcs on my ship to hit 2 neighboring hull zones on the enemy.

I think you misread the example. To quote:

Not only must your target be within the range and firing arc of the hull zone from which you choose to launch your attack, you must have line of sight to the hull zone you want to target. To determine whether or not you have line of sight, you trace a straight line from your hull zone’s yellow targeting point to the targeting point of the defending hull zone. If this line is traced through any hull zone on the defending ship other than the defending hull zone, you do not have line of sight to that hull zone and must declare another target. If you do not have another valid target, you lose the opportunity to perform the attack.

All you have to do in order to fire weapons from two different zones at the same hull zone on the target is to line your ship up in such a way so that you're not trying to fire over/through another zone on the target ship, not your own firing zone.

That could be, I debated back and forth.

I reached my tentative conclusion about the "double-tap" on the same hull zone based on the "capital ships in battle" article. Near the bottom under moving into attack position the article states " Since each of your ship’s hull zones has its own firing arc, and none of these firing arcs overlap, your ship will often need to perform its two attacks against different targets. "

Since the yellow pip can only be in one firing arc of my ship, I'm guessing that we can't hit it with 2 arcs.

---

On the other hand... that quote does use "often", although if target means hull zone or ship is fuzzy. Since we don't actually know everything yet, it could be that we just need cardboard under the firing arc(like in x-wing), and can use the line between yellow pips to ONLY determine obstruction/LOS.

If that's the case, than the double-tap is a lot easier, you just need to have the opposing pip fall in your area of overlap for both arcs to draw LOS.

From the example that I quoted, I think it's pretty clear that so long as the target hull zone is within your weapon's firing arc, and so long as tracing the line of sight doesn't overlap another hull zone on the target, you can fire weapons from that zone. I think what this suggests is that when large ships are close-in on a small target, you will probably have a harder time lining up a two-zone shot, whereas with a small ship lining up a large target, you will probably have an easier time.

As for the rest of your OP, I think that you've demonstrated that hull zones on arcs that don't reach to the corners (i.e., fore and aft on the Victory or CR-90 ) are more vulnerable than ones that go to the corners (i.e., fore on the Assault Frigate Mk. II ). An excellent analysis.

After thinking it over, I think you're right. My interpretation is akin to requiring an x-wing miniature to have the peg in its firing arc.

I wonder if it will be harder to set up the dual shot against certain types of firing arc configurations.

After thinking it over, I think you're right. My interpretation is akin to requiring an x-wing miniature to have the peg in its firing arc.

I wonder if it will be harder to set up the dual shot against certain types of firing arc configurations.

Undoubtedly. I think we'll see a lot of oblique attacks against wide arc hull areas, especially smaller Rebel ships versus larger Imperial ships. It will be easier to do multiple ships at range 2-3, because of the damage reduction when firing through other ships.

Since firing arcs don't seem to over lap, it should be impossible for 2 arcs on the same ship, to hit the same hull zone of an enemy ship. (Interesting corner case if the yellow pip falls exactly on the line between firing arcs...) A close second though in desirability is getting 2 firing arcs on my ship to hit 2 neighboring hull zones on the enemy.

I think you misread the example. To quote:

Not only must your target be within the range and firing arc of the hull zone from which you choose to launch your attack, you must have line of sight to the hull zone you want to target. To determine whether or not you have line of sight, you trace a straight line from your hull zone’s yellow targeting point to the targeting point of the defending hull zone. If this line is traced through any hull zone on the defending ship other than the defending hull zone, you do not have line of sight to that hull zone and must declare another target. If you do not have another valid target, you lose the opportunity to perform the attack.

All you have to do in order to fire weapons from two different zones at the same hull zone on the target is to line your ship up in such a way so that you're not trying to fire over/through another zone on the target ship, not your own firing zone.

No, you can't fire through your own firing arcs, you could line a ship up so it was in both arcs (right on the line between) but it's clear you can only attack a ship in arc, and it won't be in two arcs if you're shooting through your own hull zones.

No, you can't fire through your own firing arcs, you could line a ship up so it was in both arcs (right on the line between) but it's clear you can only attack a ship in arc, and it won't be in two arcs if you're shooting through your own hull zones.

Right. But the question was whether you had to line up the arcs to the target's yellow dot (which would be very hard, but possible) versus simply lining them up against the target's defending hull zone, which is much easier. The quoted text only requires that the LOS not cross over another of the target's hull zones before reaching the defending hull zone's yellow dot to confirm LOS.

Actually, it's not clear at all that the example you posed is necessarily true. For example, a small ship (say, a CR-90 ) is lined up about half an inch from a larger one (say, a Victory ), about an inch from the left/fore hull zone break. Both the fore and right firing arcs of the CR-90 can reach the left hull zone of the Victory . According to the example that FFG put out, so long as the LOS doesn't cross another hull zone on the defending ship, fire from both of the CR-90 's arcs can hit the left hull zone. The text says nothing about the LOS going through other hull zones on the attacking ship.

Actually, it's not clear at all that the example you posed is necessarily true. For example, a small ship (say, a CR-90 ) is lined up about half an inch from a larger one (say, a Victory ), about an inch from the left/fore hull zone break. Both the fore and right firing arcs of the CR-90 can reach the left hull zone of the Victory . According to the example that FFG put out, so long as the LOS doesn't cross another hull zone on the defending ship, fire from both of the CR-90 's arcs can hit the left hull zone. The text says nothing about the LOS going through other hull zones on the attacking ship.

But going through a hull zone on the CR90 will go through the firing arc divide, a straight line from both sections of the CR90 that didn't overlap that would be two separate shots, a straight line that didn't would mean you could only get one shot off. At least according to the rules they've stated so far. So from my understanding, attacks cannot come from your different hull zones if the shot would overlap the printed firing arc.

Which does seem to be where the biggest weakness of the Victory lies, you've got to hope you can get the smaller, more maneuverabe ships in two arcs with a rather different distribution of zones.

Speaking of, I feel like I'm using hull zones and firing arcs interchangeably too much, sorry if my posts aren't coming across clearly. I suspect they're interchangeable for the purposes of shooting but I might be misinterpreting.

But going through a hull zone on the CR90 will go through the firing arc divide, a straight line from both sections of the CR90 that didn't overlap that would be two separate shots, a straight line that didn't would mean you could only get one shot off. At least according to the rules they've stated so far. So from my understanding, attacks cannot come from your different hull zones if the shot would overlap the printed firing arc.

Which does seem to be where the biggest weakness of the Victory lies, you've got to hope you can get the smaller, more maneuverabe ships in two arcs with a rather different distribution of zones.

Speaking of, I feel like I'm using hull zones and firing arcs interchangeably too much, sorry if my posts aren't coming across clearly. I suspect they're interchangeable for the purposes of shooting but I might be misinterpreting.

I created a quick image to illustrate what I'm talking about:

The green line represents the boundary on the CR-90 . The yellow lines show the LOS to the Victory . Here is the quote from the example:

To determine whether or not you have line of sight, you trace a straight line from your hull zone's yellow targeting point to the targeting point of the defending hull zone. If this line is traced through any hull zone on the defending ship other than the defending hull zone, you do not have line of sight to that hull zone and must declare another target. If you do not have another valid target, you lose the opportunity to perform the attack.

I bolded the line which pretty clearly spells out that only the hull zone on the defending ship matters when determining LOS. It says nothing about the LOS going through the firing arc boundary.

Sidious, you seem to believe (if I am not mistaken), that if you have LOS, you are also "in arc", This is not so. You need three things to be able to shoot at a ship. Their yellow target point must be in LOS, it must be in range, and it must be in arc. In arc and in LOS are not the same thing.

"Not only must your target be within the range and firing arc of the hull zone from which you choose to launch your attack, you must have line of sight to the hull zone you want to target. "

I created a quick image to illustrate what I'm talking about:

The green line represents the boundary on the CR-90 . The yellow lines show the LOS to the Victory . Here is the quote from the example:

To determine whether or not you have line of sight, you trace a straight line from your hull zone's yellow targeting point to the targeting point of the defending hull zone. If this line is traced through any hull zone on the defending ship other than the defending hull zone, you do not have line of sight to that hull zone and must declare another target. If you do not have another valid target, you lose the opportunity to perform the attack.

I bolded the line which pretty clearly spells out that only the hull zone on the defending ship matters when determining LOS. It says nothing about the LOS going through the firing arc boundary.

Sidious, you seem to believe (if I am not mistaken), that if you have LOS, you are also "in arc", This is not so. You need three things to be able to shoot at a ship. Their yellow target point must be in LOS, it must be in range, and it must be in arc. In arc and in LOS are not the same thing.

"Not only must your target be within the range and firing arc of the hull zone from which you choose to launch your attack, you must have line of sight to the hull zone you want to target. "

Sidious, you can draw a line from the fore firing arc of the CR90 to the Victory's forwad hull zone without crossing the line, meaning it's in arc. So in that example, yes, both firing arcs can shoot. However, rotate the CR90 clockwise a little and you would be shooting through the line, ie, not in arc. You must have the defending zone in arc, and the preview articles have mentioned the different firing arcs meaning you might not get your two shots, or have to shoot different targets, or do some more interesting maneuvering.

Sidious, you seem to believe (if I am not mistaken), that if you have LOS, you are also "in arc", This is not so. You need three things to be able to shoot at a ship. Their yellow target point must be in LOS, it must be in range, and it must be in arc. In arc and in LOS are not the same thing.

"Not only must your target be within the range and firing arc of the hull zone from which you choose to launch your attack, you must have line of sight to the hull zone you want to target. "

You are mistaken. What I'm saying is: IF you are in arc, LOS only takes the DEFENDER's hull zones into account when determining whether you have LOS. If you look at the graphic that I did, the CR-90 's fore weapons have the Victory 's fore hull in arc (if narrowly). The fore LOS crosses the CR-90 's arc boundary, which Hylian100 claimed prevents LOS. My use of the quote shows that this isn't so. This goes back to the earlier part of the discussion where ransburger believed that you had to line up the weapon arcs on the yellow LOS dots, which would have made concentrating fire from two weapons arcs on one defending hull zone very hard.

I see, Sidious...At least we have defined the issue more clearly.

However, your interpretation would mean that the targeting point is only used for LOS checking, not for checking arcs or range.

I find this unlikely, although as far as I can tell the published examples do not indicate one way or another as yet.

So its pretty clear that there's some ambiguity about how exactly the firing arcs work in conjunction with the yellow pips. I vote we table that one until we get more information to sway things one way or the other.

Any ideas on how we can mitigate the the vulnerability of the front/rear arcs of the Victory? Will the redirect defense tokens be enough to handle that?

I think the rear arc vulnerability of the Victory will be its biggest weakness by far, and it seems that this was a deliberate design choice. The low dice, low shield rating, and large hull zone seem like a bad combination, especially considering the likelihood that you will be outmaneuvered on a regular basis by the smaller Rebel ships.

Redirecting to the sides and managing that shield "resource" will most likely be crucial to survival, and the high repair value on the Victory should help with this.

I could also see the maneuver command on the dial being pretty important if it helps you squeeze just out of arc/LOS of enemy ships, though planning that properly in advance will make it a difficult trick to pull off.

Of course, all of this is speculation, as always.

I foresee the "easiest" way to prevent the weak rear arc from becoming an issue is to keep your Star Destroyers together in a tight formation (one of those "basic" tips that most experienced minis gamers probably assumed would be used) a Specific example I feel would be a triangle formation with 2 in front and one in back so in order to line up rear shots the enemy has to fly through repeated barrages from multiple ships from the front/side arcs before they get to the rear.

Also "banking" repair tokens with your command stack will probably be something I do with Victorys, have one planed for turn 1 to get the token and then use the command for the 3rd/4th turn to be able to pop some shields back up,