So I read the rulebook about Simultaneous Fire during the combat phase, but my question is what happens if a ship dies during the Activation phase?

The scenario is an epic game. My transport has 2 hull left, his transport rams mine, so we both take a face up damage card. Mine is Direct hit. Does my transport still get to activate, or is it immediately destroyed?

I think it is immediately destroyed, because I can't find anything about it being able to complete its activation. Thoughts?

I don't think there is anything that covers how to work this out. Simultaneous fire covers the combat phase (and equal PS resolution) but it doesn't cover movement damage in the activation phase.

I would play it that your ship took the damage and is destroyed before it gets to activate. That being said it would be a great question to send in to Frank.

I would say it is removed immediately as it doesn't fall under simultaneous fire

It is removed as soon as the number of damage cards assigned to it equals or exceeds it's hull value, just line regular ships.

The rules just don't cover this. So I think it's a question for Frank or Alex.

In the Combat Phase you remove a ship as soon as it takes enough damage, at the end of that PS "phase" but does that rule apply to all other points in the game?

I could see the case being made either way.

What do you mean the rules don't cover this? The rules state when a ship has damage cards equal to or greater than the hull value, the ship is immediately removed. That's it. No need to contact frank, this is x-wing 101.

Vanor: "Destroying ships" is not in the combat phase, look at the rule book page 16. It's under "additional rules" that apply to the entire game, not just 1 phase. "Destroying ships" is not a combat phase only sort of thing...

The rules just don't cover this. So I think it's a question for Frank or Alex.In the Combat Phase you remove a ship as soon as it takes enough damage, at the end of that PS "phase" but does that rule apply to all other points in the game?I could see the case being made either way.

Why would it?

Ships are destroyed as soon as damage cards exceed hull, except in Combat within PS "phase". That is the exception to the general rule.

Why would it?

Most likely it wouldn't. Just something about it seems off. Nothing I can even put my finger on, so unless I can think of a good reason I think I'll go with the prevailing opinion.

Afterthought, seismic charges go off at the end of the activation phase, before combat yet any ship taking 1 dmg and dying before combat is not thought of as weird.

The scenario is an epic game. My transport has 2 hull left, his transport rams mine, so we both take a face up damage card. Mine is Direct hit. Does my transport still get to activate, or is it immediately destroyed?

It is immediately destroyed. No other options.

I'll throw in with the "immediately destroyed" side.

The default rule is immediate destruction when the condition is met. Simultaneous Fire changes that under specific circumstances, which aren't met during the activation phase.

This is not ambiguous.

Page 16 of the rule book. Section: "destroying ships".

Go read it.

This applies to all phases of the game:

"When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed (faceup and facedown cards count toward this total). Immediately remove the destroyed ship from the play area".

This is not ambiguous.

Page 16 of the rule book. Section: "destroying ships".

Go read it.

This applies to all phases of the game:

"When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed (faceup and facedown cards count toward this total). Immediately remove the destroyed ship from the play area".

Except for the combat phase, when the simultaneous attack rule is in effect. As well as the faq ruling with Biggs staying on the board while other ps5's are activating. And except for the end phase, when the faq states that if corran kills corran that corran still gets to attack. So, "all phases" includes the planning phase, when no ships even can be destroyed, and the activation phase, which is what my question was about. Gotcha.

Except for the combat phase, when the simultaneous attack rule is in effect. As well as the faq ruling with Biggs staying on the board while other ps5's are activating. And except for the end phase, when the faq states that if corran kills corran that corran still gets to attack. So, "all phases" includes the planning phase, when no ships even can be destroyed, and the activation phase, which is what my question was about. Gotcha.

The Biggs ruling is just a specific example of Simultaneous Fire in action.

Corran v Corran is a bit more interesting, but I believe the general consensus among rulemongers is that it's because effects, once triggered, will resolve. We see the same thing in one of the Gunner/Vader rulings. Both trigger at the same time, but the Gunner attack gets to resolve even if you destroy your own ship with Vader. FFG has never actually come out and stated this as a rule, but it is consistent with several rulings and as far as I know there's no contradictory cases. That's pretty much as good as we get around here, most days.

I don't really think the hostility of the Capn's response is warranted in this case, but he's at least generally correct - the destruction rule applies to all phases of the game, universally. It must, actually, because otherwise ships which destroyed themselves from hitting rocks wouldn't know to be removed. The important caveat is always "unless some other rule or ability changes it". In this case, we have two - the explicit rule for Simultaneous Fire, and the inferred rule for completing abilities which have been triggered. Neither applies here, so the destruction and removal would be immediate.

This is not ambiguous.

Page 16 of the rule book. Section: "destroying ships".

Go read it.

This applies to all phases of the game:

"When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed (faceup and facedown cards count toward this total). Immediately remove the destroyed ship from the play area".

Except for the combat phase, when the simultaneous attack rule is in effect. As well as the faq ruling with Biggs staying on the board while other ps5's are activating. And except for the end phase, when the faq states that if corran kills corran that corran still gets to attack. So, "all phases" includes the planning phase, when no ships even can be destroyed, and the activation phase, which is what my question was about. Gotcha.

I'm pretty sure that the FAQ doesn't say anything about treating Biggs any different than anyone else as far as simultaneous attack goes. The Corran vs Corran ruling seems more likely to be from the simultaneous trigger thus allowing both to resolve (similar to how you still can use Gunner to make an attack even if you triggered Vader to suicide the ship).

EDIT: and ninja'd by Buhallin...

Destruction out of the Combat phase isn't unheard of, either. I've seen more than a couple of ships try and fly the asteroid belt without success. A Huge ship ramming a small ship results in the same thing - instant and immediate destruction

I'll throw in with the "immediately destroyed" side.

The default rule is immediate destruction when the condition is met. Simultaneous Fire changes that under specific circumstances, which aren't met during the activation phase.

Thanks, I should have just sent you a pm. This is what we thought, so its how we played it.

Most of the rules to the game can be categorised with an "IF...THEN" type of programming logic.

IF a condition is met, THEN some kind action or consequence may or must come into play. A lot of the upgrade cards work along these lines. Sometimes the sequence or timing of when it happens will be constrained, and sometimes it won't.

In the Combat Phase you remove a ship as soon as it takes enough damage, at the end of that PS "phase" but does that rule apply to all other points in the game?

This is not quite true. Ships stay in their PS phase, only untill the have had the opportunity to attack.

eg: Biggs and Wedge have initiative against Winged Gundark and Night Beast.

All 4 ships have arc of fire against each other, and Biggs is in range 1 of Wedge.

In this scenario, Wedge would fire in PS "phase 9" and all other 3 would fire in "PS phase 5". In this case, Biggs would fire first, and then if one of the TIE's were to destroy Biggs, he would be removed immediately (not at end of "phase") and the other TIE would be free to target Wedge.

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but it may be that I just don't understand...

Why would Biggs be removed immediately after the first TIE fired? Should he (Biggs) not stay on the board until the other PS5 TIE fired as well, regardless of the damage done by the first TIE fighter (even if it was enough to destroy Biggs), as per the simultaneous rule?

You're not being dense. It's a fair question.

Biggs has had his shot, and under the Simultaneous Attack rule "After this ship has had its opportunity to attack this round, it is immediately destroyed and removed from the play area."

So once he's fired, if he's destroyed, he's removed and doesn't get to stick around to absorb more fire.

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but it may be that I just don't understand...

Why would Biggs be removed immediately after the first TIE fired? Should he (Biggs) not stay on the board until the other PS5 TIE fired as well, regardless of the damage done by the first TIE fighter (even if it was enough to destroy Biggs), as per the simultaneous rule?

It is about initiative.

IF Biggs has initiative and does his attack first, then the first PS 5 enemy ship that destroys him removes him from the board immediately.

But if the enemy PS 5 ships have initiative, they all attack Biggs even if he has more damage cards than hull points. Then after they are done, Biggs does his attack and then is removed from the board.

If I had Biggs on my squad, I wouldn't want initiative if my opponent have PS5 ships.