A PC with Perception 1 puchases cybernetic eyes and gains +1 Perception for a total of 2. After a session, he receives some XP and wishes to further increase his Perception. Does he pay the XP cost for rank 2 or rank 3?

The rules for cybernetics on p. 173 only address the maximum skill level of 6, but does not mention any effect on the xp cost for future increases.

I think that the rank granted by cybernetics should not affect the XP cost, and the PC should only have to pay for rank 2 then add the cybernetic eyes bonus for a total of 3.

Agree or disagree?

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Trick question! Player characters can only increase characteristics with xp at character creation. After that its only through talents like dedication.

So, the xp cost will not be effected by the cybernetics because the cost for the talents is fixed.

Not a trick....asked about skill increases, not characteristics.

Trick question! Player characters can only increase characteristics with xp at character creation. After that its only through talents like dedication.

So, the xp cost will not be effected by the cybernetics because the cost for the talents is fixed.

Not a trick....asked about skill increases, not characteristics.

I caught you while editing!

Drat!

Well correcting then...

Unlike gear that gives you a bonus to.checks, cybernetics actually incease the skill ranks you have by 1 (and raise the cap). So since your skill rank is now 2, you gotta pay full price to get to 3.

Looks like cybernetics give you more bang for your buck late game.

There are two ways to go about it. The nice way... then he would bump his skill perception to a 2, while the cybernetic would automatically upgrade it to a 3. (this is important, see further down).

The second way, would be a bit more stingy, but probably more realistic. That would be to say that once cybernetics are in place, you've hard-capped the stat they refer to. Thinking about it technically, cybernetic arms wouldn't be able to get any stronger, so strength would be capped where they are. One could upgrade them with a proper exoskeleton or some back work, as the back is going to give out before the arms do, but still.

I'd go with the first.

Now that said, if you're playing "rules as written", then a bad guy only has to HIT (one point above soak) a cybernetic (droid upgrades included) with an EMP/Ion etc.. and it shorts out the cybernetics for the rest of the scene. Meaning if your dude has his eyes upgraded, one shot on EMP and he is blind. If he has legs done, one shot and he can't walk. What I do in this case, is the perception falls back to the standard (in your case 2), with 2 blacks for being blind. That extra perception comes in very handy.

I've always thought of skill increases from equipment, including cybernetics, as something that stacks comfortably on top of the actual skill. So the character in your example would pay to increase his Perception skill from 1 to 2, and then whenever he needed to make a check the bonus would make his effective skill rank 3. If he increases it again it's raised from 2 to 3, with the implant bonus making him roll as if he had rank 4 in Perception.

I've always thought of skill increases from equipment, including cybernetics, as something that stacks comfortably on top of the actual skill. So the character in your example would pay to increase his Perception skill from 1 to 2, and then whenever he needed to make a check the bonus would make his effective skill rank 3. If he increases it again it's raised from 2 to 3, with the implant bonus making him roll as if he had rank 4 in Perception.

This is exactly why I asked the question. In the case of most equipment, it should clearly not raise the skill permanently. For example, wearing something like armor with the Integrated Scanner attachment and Skill (Perception) Mod is only a temporary bonus granted as long as the equipment is worn. Cybernetics are clearly different since they replace body parts and are permanent.

Thanks for the answers so far. Still no consensus, but the discussion is helpful.

From the RAW, page 173 - "[cybernetics] increase skills or characteristics, providing raw bonuses to characters' abilities. The combination of purchased increases and the increases provided by cybernetics can increase a character's skill or characteristic by one step above the normal maximum (seven for characteristics, six for skills)."

Any cybernetic skill or characteristic increase is a bonus not a rank increase. Cybernetic eyes are always a +1 to Perception skill checks, but not a +1 to Perception skill rank. As such, the PC's Perception skill rank would advance in rank as per the normal rules for skill advancement.

Also, I would add that you should think of cybernetics as equipment and not a permanent part of a character like Skills or Characteristics. Yes, cybernetics are a 'physical' part of the PC, but, mechanically, the rules make only a minor distinction between cybernetics and other types of equipment.

Hope that helps and/or makes sense.

I wouldn't make much of a big deal out of it, we're talking a difference of 5XP. As a GM I'd let them pay the price based on their current skill ranks (without implants). This would avoid any future issues when, say, a critical hit from an enemy destroys the implant, and now their ranks drop but they've paid as if they had it.

Yeah, I would take it as a separate increase for the character itself, as it's not the cyberware in training, it's the character. So, increase the character as if there was no cybernetics in place when spending EXP, but then immediately there-after add the cybernetic mod after the fact; in this case...is the +1 Perception. Yes, technically it's cheaper in EXP this way, but it saves against a future argument when a higher leveled character wishes to add cyberware for the same bonus of +1 to a higher ranked skill.

Cybernetic eyes are always a +1 to Perception skill checks, but not a +1 to Perception skill rank.

Read it again and you'll see the mistake you made. This system doesn't give +1 to checks, it gives upgrades. The exact wording in the book is

Users with cybernetic eyes gain +1 Vigilance and Perception.

They don't get to upgrade checks, or a +1 to checks, they just get a +1 to the actual skill. So rather then paying the xp, they pay credits, and get the skill ranks and an increase in the cap.

If you read the part he actually quoted, it says these increases are bonuses. The arguable implication is they are applied after the purchased ranks are determined.

Cybernetic eyes are always a +1 to Perception skill checks, but not a +1 to Perception skill rank.

Read it again and you'll see the mistake you made. This system doesn't give +1 to checks, it gives upgrades.

The exact wording in the book is

Users with cybernetic eyes gain +1 Vigilance and Perception.

They don't get to upgrade checks, or a +1 to checks, they just get a +1 to the actual skill. So rather then paying the xp, they pay credits, and get the skill ranks and an increase in the cap.

Apparently, you did not read anything that I quoted directly from the rulebook where it specifically names the additional +1 a bonus and not a rank increase. There is no evidence to support any conclusion that would treat cybernetics as a rank increase instead of a simple bonus. Mainly because the rules, again, specifically say bonus and never say rank increase .

Ghostofman, read what you wrote "Users with cybernetic eyes gain +1 Vigilance and Perception." That specifically says nothing about additional ranks. If cybernetics add ranks in a skill, why is it nowhere specifically stated in the rules?

Cybernetics are equipment. Don't over think it.