I have played couple of EoTE sessions and I found some things which I need to resolve.

1) If I for example manage to do damage to kill 2 of group minions with normal weapon how can I kill the both?? Just say something like you pierced first and killd another one behind him ?

2) If my PC manage to succseed in for example stealth check to get undiscovered behind NPC or u know near NPC or for good shot unknowledge should I roll initiativ check, coz they don't know about me at all ?? Or other situation PC succseed in stealth check to get near NPC and he tell me I try to cut his throat. So It have to be fatal dmg, not only to get NPC SOME WOUNDS??

And if I succseed in stealth check to kill someone and I need to roll initiativ, the stealth check is for nothing than.

I have played couple of EoTE sessions and I found some things which I need to resolve.

1) If I for example manage to do damage to kill 2 of group minions with normal weapon how can I kill the both?? Just say something like you pierced first and killd another one behind him ?

You have to remember that your turn of shooting consists of more than one shot. So you shot like crazy, plugged one in the neck, and as he fell you got the one behind him in the belly with another shot.

2) If my PC manage to succseed in for example stealth check to get undiscovered behind NPC or u know near NPC or for good shot unknowledge should I roll initiativ check, coz they don't know about me at all ?? Or other situation PC succseed in stealth check to get near NPC and he tell me I try to cut his throat. So It have to be fatal dmg, not only to get NPC SOME WOUNDS??

And if I succseed in stealth check to kill someone and I need to roll initiativ, the stealth check is for nothing than.

If you snuck up on someone and are going to ambush them, when it comes time for initiative you roll your Cool and they roll their Vigilance.

I don't get the rest of your question.

I have played couple of EoTE sessions and I found some things which I need to resolve.

1) If I for example manage to do damage to kill 2 of group minions with normal weapon how can I kill the both?? Just say something like you pierced first and killd another one behind him ?

You have to remember that your turn of shooting consists of more than one shot. So you shot like crazy, plugged one in the neck, and as he fell you got the one behind him in the belly with another shot.

Or... to make it a little crazier in the narrative, your shot kills Minion #1 and as he falls backward in death he triggers his own gun shooting Minion #2 in the head.

If you snuck up on someone and are going to ambush them, when it comes time for initiative you roll your Cool and they roll their Vigilance.

I don't get the rest of your question.

I think he's asking about whether or not there is such a thing as the D20 surprise round. There aren't any rules for a surprise round. Whafrog is right about the Cool vs. Vigilance used in the check (reference sidebar on p. 199). The situation is up to the GM as far as I am concerned. The GM could award one or more boost die to your initiative roll based on your successful stealth check, or he may even houserule it and say you get a free shot before initiative.

For more on surprise rounds, the topic was covered in depth here: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/107988-surprise-round/?hl=surprise

2) If my PC manage to succseed in for example stealth check to get undiscovered behind NPC or u know near NPC or for good shot unknowledge should I roll initiativ check, coz they don't know about me at all?

He can if the gm wants. Just because he gets to roll iniative (and possibly even go first) doesn't mean he knows you are there. You'd still probably get to make the first attack because even if he went first, pretty much anything he could do to detect you would be an action. So failing the iniative will only deny you something like Quick Strike, or allow the target to possibly notice you and start running.

Or other situation PC succseed in stealth check to get near NPC and he tell me I try to cut his throat. So It have to be fatal dmg, not only to get NPC SOME WOUNDS??

Yep. Though if its a minion a single success and a crit will do. If its a rival or nemesis then probably not. But then it is a rival or nemesis, so going down like a punk isn't really cool anyway.

Also in both situations you should be getting various boosts and upgrades from the previous rolls and conditions.

Combat rounds represent a minute of action. That's lots of ducking behind cover, suppressive fire, feints, banter about how much trouble you're in, etc. - and, yes, blowing away many, many overacting extras.

Ok thank you very much And what about cutting the throat ?? He says I try to cut his throat and he get for example success without disadvantages or with advantages. So still I should say you hurt him for some dmg, but he didn't die if the PC don't do damage greater than treshold or don't give a crit. And It isn't good in my opinion, coz he got success with advantages (without disadvantages). Any ideas ?? Thx.

Well, that's one of those tricky areas where it should be up to the GM to decide. Technically there is wound threshold and soak to be considered, but I can also see a situation where if you were trying to sneak up on him I'd make you do an opposed stealth check and a hard coordination check to successfully pull off the throat-slit kill. If any threats showed up as part of either final roll, I'd say you botched the kill and only did damage instead. That's just how I'd handle it. While it's really cinematic to do what you're attempting, in reality it's probably pretty hard to flawlessly pull it off clean without raising any kind of alarm.

If it were a lone minion or even a rival that didn't matter to the story, I'd just rule he was dead.

If it's a nemesis, roll initiative as normal (if they beat you they still have to find you to act against you). The chart that tells you what you can do with the results of combat checks should probably apply to the stealth check, too (e.g. if you rolled a Triumph on stealth, upgrade the attack. If you rolled Advantages, get 1 or more boost dice).

If the attack isn't enough to defeat him maybe he turned away at the last second, or grabbed your hand, or booted you away before you got the killing strike but your blade carved a chunk out of his leg. Your narration doesn't even have to be that the active character who messed up - perhaps a minion walked in at the wrong moment, or the nemesis caught sight of movement of some kind reflected in a monitor.

The mechanics tell you how things are statistically different from round to round. There's fun to be had narrating how that happened.

We handle sneak attacks like this.

We make the attack. If it kills the guy and nobody notices, we continue narrative mode. If it fails or somebody notices, we then roll initiative.

Ok thank you very much And what about cutting the throat ?? He says I try to cut his throat and he get for example success without disadvantages or with advantages. So still I should say you hurt him for some dmg, but he didn't die if the PC don't do damage greater than treshold or don't give a crit. And It isn't good in my opinion, coz he got success with advantages (without disadvantages). Any ideas ?? Thx.

....not well worded but best I can understand:

What about cutting his throat? The GM says if I make the attack and get Success, with some Advantage and no Threat, I inflict wounds, but I won't kill the target because I didn't exceed his WT or Crit. This isn't good in my opinion because those Advantages should do something. Any ideas?

OK, first off, remember that every weapon has a Crit Rating that says how many Advantage you need to Crit. You don't need a Triumph to crit. If you're using a combat knife you only need 3 advantages to score a crit, and a vibro knife only needs 2. If you are stacking your advantages and triumphs from previous rolls and using them to apply bonuses to you and setbacks to the NPC this should be pretty doable. If you really want to stack the deck, spend a Destiny point to upgrade your attack. Those things are there for you to use. Use them. Also don't forget the environment and any gear you might have.

Lets say you don't Crit, and don't do enough to exceed his WT (so we're looking at 1 or 2 advantage depending on what weapon you've got). Well, that's life. Despite what other games and movies may say killing someone with a knife (even if you surprise them) is hard to do, and a lot can go wrong, or at least not go perfectly right. Deal with it. Use that advantage to do something else. Maybe that Advantage means you've got your hand over his mouth so no one has heard him yet. Or you were able to knock his comlink free and it's now rolling on the floor. Or any number of things. That's the whole point of Advantage, you're supposed to make the scene more interesting.

Combat rounds represent a minute of action. That's lots of ducking behind cover, suppressive fire, feints, banter about how much trouble you're in, etc. - and, yes, blowing away many, many overacting extras.

Sorry Col. Orange, combat rounds are not one minute long. The ECRB specifically states that Rounds are NOT specified in a length of time, but CAN last up to a minute long. What the ECRB does state about the length of time for Rounds, is that a character gets a turn and can perform various tasks or to accomplish tasks.

Page 198 ECRB.

"Players should keep in mind that a round lasts long enough for their character to move to a new location and perform an important action"

So if everyone is just shooting and moving, then a Round can last only seconds. If they are doing med checks or mechanics, then a Round can be a lot longer, without the need to really keep track of "how many 6 second rounds have passed", like in RCR/SAGA.

I can not see how shooting at someone can take one minute. I know that we can't really use "real Life" as a comparison for a game all the time, but in this case I think we can. Being part of the USAF, I have done a lot of live fire shooting and live fire exercises. One minute of shooting is a ton of AIMED shoots fired. With reloading involved too.

I feel the ECRB is talking about other actions rather than just shooting or a combat action. Hacking into a computer may take more than 5 seconds, but instead of having the game broke down down into a bunch of rounds, the GM can now say, ok, make the check it takes you a minute to hack in, instead of trying to count all these rounds, like in previous games.

I had a previous player who kept wanting to argue about how long rounds were in this game, and he kept saying they were a minute long, but they are not. He kept trying to really do a lot in combat, that I feel was outside the scope and intent of the rules. This can get weird, if a the majority of the PCs and NPCs are shooting at one another, but one player is trying to to do something that can take a long time, like a med check. I had ruled that his action would be mutli round, and while he is patching this one guy up, and everyone is shooting. He felt like he should be able to do the med check in one round, and then next round get to shoot again, citing the ECRB as a reference as a round can last up to a minute. Basically he didn't want to miss an opportunity to roll the dice.

As to the original post, I think that in regards to a sneak attack, the roll of the sneak should provide you the boost dice to the attack. Getting a couple of Boost dice to the attack can really improve your chances of Advantages (for Crits) and the amount of Successes you get, which can help to deal more damage--remember each uncancelled Success is also one more point of damage. If the person who is being attacked by an unknown assailant because of a failed Vigilance VS Sneak check, then they should not roll for initiative until after they know they are in "Structured" game play. Basically, if you do not know you are being attacked, you should not be able to roll for initiative.

Regarding the Stealth to slice the guy's throat...does it have to take place in structured play? A combat check can be made in narrative play, especially for a situation such as this. Slitting the throat of a lone guard you've snuck up on is perfectly appropriate. There's no need for combat turns, no need for initiative.

If it's a nemesis that you've snuck up on, then I would give you a free shot before initiating combat (his Vigilance against your Cool for initiative...or perhaps you could roll vigilance if you were legitimately not expecting your target to survive the attempted assassination, and therefore not prepared for combat).

But if it's a Rival or Minion, I would say you just make the combat check, and Success means you take them out.

In either case, Advantage on the Stealth check would give you better dice on that first combat check.

Combat rounds represent a minute of action. That's lots of ducking behind cover, suppressive fire, feints, banter about how much trouble you're in, etc. - and, yes, blowing away many, many overacting extras.

Sorry Col. Orange, combat rounds are not one minute long. The ECRB specifically states that Rounds are NOT specified in a length of time, but CAN last up to a minute long. What the ECRB does state about the length of time for Rounds, is that a character gets a turn and can perform various tasks or to accomplish tasks.

Page 198 ECRB.

"Players should keep in mind that a round lasts long enough for their character to move to a new location and perform an important action"

So if everyone is just shooting and moving, then a Round can last only seconds. If they are doing med checks or mechanics, then a Round can be a lot longer, without the need to really keep track of "how many 6 second rounds have passed", like in RCR/SAGA.

I can not see how shooting at someone can take one minute. I know that we can't really use "real Life" as a comparison for a game all the time, but in this case I think we can. Being part of the USAF, I have done a lot of live fire shooting and live fire exercises. One minute of shooting is a ton of AIMED shoots fired. With reloading involved too.

I feel the ECRB is talking about other actions rather than just shooting or a combat action. Hacking into a computer may take more than 5 seconds, but instead of having the game broke down down into a bunch of rounds, the GM can now say, ok, make the check it takes you a minute to hack in, instead of trying to count all these rounds, like in previous games.

I had a previous player who kept wanting to argue about how long rounds were in this game, and he kept saying they were a minute long, but they are not. He kept trying to really do a lot in combat, that I feel was outside the scope and intent of the rules. This can get weird, if a the majority of the PCs and NPCs are shooting at one another, but one player is trying to to do something that can take a long time, like a med check. I had ruled that his action would be mutli round, and while he is patching this one guy up, and everyone is shooting. He felt like he should be able to do the med check in one round, and then next round get to shoot again, citing the ECRB as a reference as a round can last up to a minute. Basically he didn't want to miss an opportunity to roll the dice.

As to the original post, I think that in regards to a sneak attack, the roll of the sneak should provide you the boost dice to the attack. Getting a couple of Boost dice to the attack can really improve your chances of Advantages (for Crits) and the amount of Successes you get, which can help to deal more damage--remember each uncancelled Success is also one more point of damage. If the person who is being attacked by an unknown assailant because of a failed Vigilance VS Sneak check, then they should not roll for initiative until after they know they are in "Structured" game play. Basically, if you do not know you are being attacked, you should not be able to roll for initiative.

This is a long post about rounds not being a minute long, when the person you are correcting was really addressing the fact that you are shooting more than one bullet each action, and that is a good way to explain how you can kill more than one minion with a given "Shoot" combat action. If you have been to multiple live fire ranges then you know that on many qual ranges some itterations will have more than one target and you have upwards of 15 seconds to engage both targets. This is enough time to shoot one, miss, shoot the second, hit and pop off a third round at the original target, often hitting. That is more the spirit of COL Orange's post, not that a round is one minute long. The OP was asking for some narrative advice on how to explain such an instance and I think COL Orange hit it right on the head.

As for the Stealth check, lots of good advice so far. You can just say the stealth character cannot be seen and therefore cannot be engaged. He is still in initiative (possibly taking the first PC slot if the group agrees) and attacks when it is his turn.

Dealing with the attack is also pretty straight forward. If the character fails to achieve enough success to do damage or enough advantage to trigger a crit on a minion, then the NPC manages to break the PC's hold, or get his hand in front of the knife reciving a vicious cut on his forearm.

If you think it is more cinimatic don't require a combat check. Just allow him to kill the minion.

um, ok, but stating that "combat rounds represent one minute" is not correct by RAW.

Col. Orange is a long time and well respected member of our community. By him stating this as a fact can confuse newer members of the forum, who already seem to have trouble understanding other parts of the rules. So I wanted to clarify this. But, hey, thanks for letting me know I am wrong here...

Sorry I seemed to upset you about getting off topic here a little.

Combat rounds represent a minute of action. That's lots of ducking behind cover, suppressive fire, feints, banter about how much trouble you're in, etc. - and, yes, blowing away many, many overacting extras.

That is more the spirit of COL Orange's post, not that a round is one minute long. The OP was asking for some narrative advice on how to explain such an instance and I think COL Orange hit it right on the head.

Um, sorry to disagree with you here, but the "spirit" of the Col's post WAS to to say "combat rounds represent one minute". I wasn't being mean or disparaging to Col. Orange. I just quoted what is in the ECRB, and gave an example of my own gaming experience.

To Col Orange, I am sorry if I upset you in anyway, or if you feel insulted/threatened/belittled/beat down/oppressed/slandered/discriminated against/harassed/abused or unwanted by me. That was not my intent.

Thx this helped me a lot.

If you are stacking your advantages and triumphs from previous rolls and using them to apply bonuses to you and setbacks to the NPC this should be pretty doable.

Are the advantages, triuphs etc. stacking ? I didn't know that.

If you are stacking your advantages and triumphs from previous rolls and using them to apply bonuses to you and setbacks to the NPC this should be pretty doable.

Are the advantages, triuphs etc. stacking ? I didn't know that.

I think what he meant was that you can use certain Advantage/Triumph spending options to give yourself more bonuses to a die roll (with the basic RAW you can feasibly have 2 Boost dice and an Upgrade coming your way just by way of your Advantage & Triumph) which in turn will grant you more good stuff on your roll. So they stack in that way.

Sorry if I misinterpreted, ghost.

Y I thought the same. Thx ag.

Yeah that's what I meant.

um, ok, but stating that "combat rounds represent one minute" is not correct by RAW.

Col. Orange is a long time and well respected member of our community. By him stating this as a fact can confuse newer members of the forum, who already seem to have trouble understanding other parts of the rules. So I wanted to clarify this. But, hey, thanks for letting me know I am wrong here...

Sorry I seemed to upset you about getting off topic here a little.

Combat rounds represent a minute of action. That's lots of ducking behind cover, suppressive fire, feints, banter about how much trouble you're in, etc. - and, yes, blowing away many, many overacting extras.

That is more the spirit of COL Orange's post, not that a round is one minute long. The OP was asking for some narrative advice on how to explain such an instance and I think COL Orange hit it right on the head.

Um, sorry to disagree with you here, but the "spirit" of the Col's post WAS to to say "combat rounds represent one minute". I wasn't being mean or disparaging to Col. Orange. I just quoted what is in the ECRB, and gave an example of my own gaming experience.

To Col Orange, I am sorry if I upset you in anyway, or if you feel insulted/threatened/belittled/beat down/oppressed/slandered/discriminated against/harassed/abused or unwanted by me. That was not my intent.

I love you guys.

I think I was wrong. I'm pretty sure I was wrong, or at least inaccurate. Up to a minute or around a minute sounds right.

Yes, the point I was trying to make was that it represented multiple discrete attack opportunities, but saying "Combat rounds represent a minute of action" (being so exact about it) muddied that point, somewhat, and that wasn't too helpful of me.

My bad.

(I detected nothing in anyone's posts that I thought was meant in a mean-spirited way. It's nice to know we're doing a good job of policing ourselves on that front, though.)

Col. Orange is a long time and well respected member of our community.

Wha?

Too late - can't take it back!