After hearing of the fortressing controversy at Worlds, and more importantly seeing the tactic, I kinda wanna try it, and potentially maximize it.

As a games theorist, it's actually a beautiful tactic because it avoids Zugzwang : the compulsion to move, even when doing so would put you in a position more disadvantageous than the one you're in now. (Yay German!)

The theoretical "Best" fortress would cover all angles of assault with a good amount of dice.
The theoretical "Best" fortress would somehow keep its actions, or use action-like abilities.
The theoretical "Best" fortress would be easily abandoned, preferably as an explosive surprise to flank the assailant. Said another way, it should let you move into a more advantageous position if you see the opportunity.

I have now seen 3 different varieties of Fortress lists. Interestingly, each does better than the others at one of the 3 things I mentioned above.

Double Falcon Fortresses automatically cover all angles, but are not easily abandoned, and only 1 ship gets an action (if the other ship is Lando). That being said, there are plenty of crewmen who cover that base, and Experimental Interface might close the gap on the other.

Triple Lambda Fortresses use Captain Yorr and Colonel Jendon's abilities to maintain all actions, but is the least able to abandon itself, and is fairly easily flanked, due to their large bases.

The XXXX Fortress from Worlds is the most easily abandoned of the lot, as any other maneuver will cause the Fortress to fall apart. Similarly, with so many arcs, it has a good number of attack dice going in any direction, but still has blind-spots.



I was mulling this over, and realized you could also theoretically use Interceptor or Phantom fortresses.
Can y'all think of any other ships that would work well for this emerging (though very disliked) list paradigm?

I myself have also being studying this formation. I am toying with 4 B with crew list but it is still experimental. I am curious to what else people come up with.

Bottom line the original, with pilots chosen, was really quite good in its own right. Hard to improve upon the original.

I myself have also being studying this formation. I am toying with 4 B with crew list but it is still experimental. I am curious to what else people come up with.

Bottom line the original, with pilots chosen, was really quite good in its own right. Hard to improve upon the original.

I didn't see what the XXXX's pilots were, sadly. What were they?

BBBB with AS. Keep all actions. PS2 only.

I posted this in the Wave 5 the sky if falling thread:

Cmd. Kenkirk + Isard + Dauntless Title = 50 points

RA Chiraneau + Wingman + Moff Jejerrod (or anything you fancy to spend 2 points on) = 50 points

Set up like a fortress and start doing the 1 forwards. Kenkirk moves first bumps into the Admiral and gets to action because of the Title then gets a stress. Then Chiraneau moves and bumps too, but doesn't get an action. Now Chiraneau does get a built in mini-focus at range 1-2. So in reality your action economy isn't just awful.

Combat starts and the Admiral Wingmans off the Commanders stress and you rinse repeat. Now if he targets the Admiral first, he ends up against a fully ready to go Kenkirk with Isard in the end game. Also with the Dauntless title which can be handy. If you target Kenkirk first, he gets two actions a round after he starts taking damage all the while bumping into the Rear Admiral. He will still be hard to kill while you just sit there stationary. The Rear Admiral will be hard to kill in an end game scenario as well.

It was pointed out you can also use PTL + Isard and Dauntless on the other 49. You set the two bases touching each others nubs. That lets you do a 2-straight green to clear the PTL stress.

Either way each VT-49 is getting an action a turn or a pseudo action. It is also a ton of hitpoints to chew through while you have to figure out how to engage and disengage.

How about just 4 blues with advS?

Pretty good in or out of a fort.

How about just 4 blues with advS?

Pretty good in or out of a fort.

It's worth consideration.

Maintain the fortress until the enemy gets into knife-fighting range, where Adv S. B-wings truly excel, then burst forth.

I'm a bit leery considering the relative fragility of B-Wings, though it's not like their phantoms can get behind me...

In tournament elimination rounds, if no shots are fired, the player with initiative advances to the next round. If you want to force the enemy to engage your fortress, you need initiative. A 100 points build probably won't have initiative. Therefore the perfect fortress build spends less than 100 points.

In tournament elimination rounds, if no shots are fired, the player with initiative advances to the next round. If you want to force the enemy to engage your fortress, you need initiative. A 100 points build probably won't have initiative. Therefore the perfect fortress build spends less than 100 points.

Good call.

You can still get the initiative if your opponent doesn't realize you're running a Fortress. If they're running Phantoms, Alpha Strike, Bombs, et cetera that desperately want NOT to have initiative, then you're still in the money at 100.

Still, though, it's better to decide yourself.

I myself have also being studying this formation. I am toying with 4 B with crew list but it is still experimental. I am curious to what else people come up with.

Bottom line the original, with pilots chosen, was really quite good in its own right. Hard to improve upon the original.

I didn't see what the XXXX's pilots were, sadly. What were they?

Wedge + Draw Their Fire + R2D2; Cracken + Vetearn Iinstincts; Biggs; Rookie

This seems like an entirely stupid strategy. Now I haven't seen the actual games and how they were run, but it feels really easy to just find ways to molest the ships with concentrated fire.

This seems like an entirely stupid strategy. Now I haven't seen the actual games and how they were run, but it feels really easy to just find ways to molest the ships with concentrated fire.

That's why the "easily abandoned" part is important.

I'd probably go for buzzsaw shuttles myself as benefiting the most from fortressnig (and kind of being able to do it on their own with that beautiful 0 move), problem being you're not fitting many into a list.

Your omnicron buzzsaw will run 28 points for FCS and Gunner, giving you a potent and action independent offense. The problem is breaking formation, which we all know is a wild pain in the ass for poor shuttles They can become far more manueverable with Engines (and they won't need actions for offensive benefits really, not with FCS + Gunner) but then they're coming in at 32 each and are very vulnerable to blocks.

There's also Echo, who can kind of fortress by herself thanks to her fun de-cloak banks + hard turns, with the only problem being that her facing will change. The alternative is slapping advanced sensors on her and turning her into a Shuttle's tail.

there's also a list I suffered against locally, consisting of 3 omnicrons and Vessery + Wingman. Unless you're running a low PS rebel brick, that's a very intimidating wall of fire to have to stare down.

Somewhere in a galaxy far far away a little x-wing just died!

I find it extremely disheartening to find a thread on optimising this tactic. Hope this remains a theoretical discussion or for use in your own casual games. Proliferation of this in any level of tournament will (in my humble opinion) be very bad for the game, forcing the designers to outlaw it in some way and as Alex D said the cure can often end up being worse than the disease.

I'd probably go for buzzsaw shuttles myself as benefiting the most from fortressnig (and kind of being able to do it on their own with that beautiful 0 move), problem being you're not fitting many into a list.

Your omnicron buzzsaw will run 28 points for FCS and Gunner, giving you a potent and action independent offense. The problem is breaking formation, which we all know is a wild pain in the ass for poor shuttles They can become far more manueverable with Engines (and they won't need actions for offensive benefits really, not with FCS + Gunner) but then they're coming in at 32 each and are very vulnerable to blocks.

There's also Echo, who can kind of fortress by herself thanks to her fun de-cloak banks + hard turns, with the only problem being that her facing will change. The alternative is slapping advanced sensors on her and turning her into a Shuttle's tail.

there's also a list I suffered against locally, consisting of 3 omnicrons and Vessery + Wingman. Unless you're running a low PS rebel brick, that's a very intimidating wall of fire to have to stare down.

There's always the possibility of multiclassing your fortress....

what about a 2400 outrider/HLC with falcon? the falcon being in front stopping anyone getting into the safe range 1.

Somewhere in a galaxy far far away a little x-wing just died!

I find it extremely disheartening to find a thread on optimising this tactic. Hope this remains a theoretical discussion or for use in your own casual games. Proliferation of this in any level of tournament will (in my humble opinion) be very bad for the game, forcing the designers to outlaw it in some way and as Alex D said the cure can often end up being worse than the disease.

I agree, but I think you need to break a game sometimes to get drastic changes. I don't want to see fortresses become popular options.

Seriously, the original fortress, the double Falcon fortress, was bad enough and now you are telling me people are making fortresses with small ships as well? I seriously hope the designers come up with a solution to this because it's abusing the rules to an extreme level.

Four naked phantoms.

I implore you, find a way to make it truly viable.

Then FFG will kill it for good.

Seriously, the original fortress, the double Falcon fortress, was bad enough and now you are telling me people are making fortresses with small ships as well? I seriously hope the designers come up with a solution to this because it's abusing the rules to an extreme level.

Ironically, breaking the tactic is the best way to make FFG take action against it. If it remains a rare, ineffective desperation tactic, they won't consider it enough of a problem to bother with it. Make it viable and they'll be forced to do something to stop it.

I'd like to see a writeup from the guy who ran the fortress. Maybe i'm not as bright as I fancy but I don't see how that list actually works. I don't understand draw thier fire on wedge or what cracken is doing hanging around with naked x wings which seem to me like the rebel ships least optimized to working along side him. Whenever i run kraken i prefer him with B's or sometimes A's, ships where late round actions benefit them, only way i'd pair him with x's would be if R5p9 or R7's were involved

I'd like to see a writeup from the guy who ran the fortress. Maybe i'm not as bright as I fancy but I don't see how that list actually works. I don't understand draw thier fire on wedge or what cracken is doing hanging around with naked x wings which seem to me like the rebel ships least optimized to working along side him. Whenever i run kraken i prefer him with B's or sometimes A's, ships where late round actions benefit them, only way i'd pair him with x's would be if R5p9 or R7's were involved

DTF is on Wedge, as Wedge has R2-D2, so the crit that he pulls away from Biggs hits a shield and regenerates.

Cracken is in the fleet to give someone an action, as they're all colliding instead. He's great in a Fortress.

A rookie pilot under Cracken is almost as scary as Wedge (plus it basically has Cracken's dial, so it is much easier to keep pace with him over a B-wing)

It's amazing what you can do with a TL + focus and 3 red dice (and PS 8 if you use swarm )

but yeah, Dracon covered fortress Cracken. Given how people have interpreted that one game where the fortress tactic was used with that list, it doesn't seem like it was explicitly made for fortressing and Cracken just happens to afford some actions after bumping (as opposed being included specifically for how he interacts with that tactic).

Consider that you could also go for buzzsaw Bs for a mere 2 points over the shuttle (+1 base cost, +1 crew mod)

I'd like to see a writeup from the guy who ran the fortress. Maybe i'm not as bright as I fancy but I don't see how that list actually works. I don't understand draw thier fire on wedge or what cracken is doing hanging around with naked x wings which seem to me like the rebel ships least optimized to working along side him. Whenever i run kraken i prefer him with B's or sometimes A's, ships where late round actions benefit them, only way i'd pair him with x's would be if R5p9 or R7's were involved

DTF is on Wedge, as Wedge has R2-D2, so the crit that he pulls away from Biggs hits a shield and regenerates.

Cracken is in the fleet to give someone an action, as they're all colliding instead. He's great in a Fortress.

Ok, so if hes stalling entirely as his plan i think i get it. You get so much damage mitigation and redirection that its still really hard to pull a ship off the board with the one or two rounds of fire the list allots.