I have been reviewing the rules since I received the beta and kept up with every single update.

Currently the power is exceedingly weak in the beginning version with the latter upgrades well exceedingly personal damage to the point of being on the planetary scale, henceforth broken and unbalanced.

During the last update they reduced the damage back to unmodified willpower plus successes and changed the strength upgrade to only add damage.

Here's the issues with this current version

Base Damage 1-6

Currently that places it lower than almost any other weapon in the game prior to F and D

With the 2x willpower damage goes back to 2-12 damage before using implants and stims. That makes it quickly match the damage of a blaster at 3 willpower and a heavy rifle at 5 willpower. At maximum you have the base damage of an E11X before mods.

That is balanced base damage, so the base damage wasn't the issue when it was 2x Willpower for unleash.

Attack should be treated like a ranged energy weapon

Currently the Discipline check wording makes it sound less like an attack and more like a regular Discipline check. I would recommend changing it to state for unleash "Make a Discipline check against a target up to short range, treating it the same as an energy attack with the same range."

I also want to point out that reflect should equally be able to effect lightning as it appeared to do in the fight with Dooku versus Palpatine where Dooku used improved reflect on the attack combined with Defensive Stance and possibly sense to reflect the lightning onto the Chancellor.

Now here's where it's broken,

There are too many strength upgrades.

The current change also doesn't gI've you a medium to generate extra advantage which gave the original version the potential for a one hit kill like Star killer did. While the damage caps fall within range of the extreme uses in lore, it doesn't balance against any personal scale weapons in the game

My suggestion change on strength rank to "CONTROL: the user can spend 2 pips to gain one boost die to his Discipline checks made with this power."

This control should be able to be actibated multiple times and will allow for extra defense and successes on both Protect/Unleash to use on the Defense granting control or to give additional Crit strikes on the mastery. The effects are not guaranteed and it basically represents gaining accuracy rating like you would with the modifications on a normal blaster pistol or rifle.

With those changes you could either add in alot of damage with strength upgrades or increase the odds of you hitting.

10 pips would give basically Accurate 5 to the check.

This is just my analysis though everyone feel free to state your questions and feedback, and please also iterate on points you agree with as well! Thanks.

I have been reviewing the rules since I received the beta and kept up with every single update.

Currently the power is exceedingly weak in the beginning version with the latter upgrades well exceedingly personal damage to the point of being on the planetary scale, henceforth broken and unbalanced.

During the last update they reduced the damage back to unmodified willpower plus successes and changed the strength upgrade to only add damage.

Here's the issues with this current version

Base Damage 1-6

Currently that places it lower than almost any other weapon in the game prior to F and D

With the 2x willpower damage goes back to 2-12 damage before using implants and stims. That makes it quickly match the damage of a blaster at 3 willpower and a heavy rifle at 5 willpower. At maximum you have the base damage of an E11X That is balanced.

Attack should be treated like a ranged energy weapon

Currently the Discipline check wording makes it sound less like an attack and more like a regular Discipline check. I would recommend changing it to state for unleash "Make a Discipline check against a target up to short range, treating it the same as an energy attack with the same range."

I also want to point out that reflect should equally be able to effect lightning as it appeared to do in the fight with Dooku versus Palpatine where Dooku used improved reflect on the attack combined with Defensive Stance and possibly sense to reflect the lightning onto the Chancellor.

Now here's where it's broken,

There are too many strength upgrades.

The current change also doesn't gI've you a medium to generate extra advantage which gave the original version the potential for a one hit kill like Star killer did. While the damage caps fall within range of the extreme uses in lore, it doesn't balance against any personal scale weapons in the game

My suggestion change on strength rank to "CONTROL: the user can spend 2 pips to gain one boost die to his Discipline checks made with this power."

This control should be able to be actibated multiple times and will allow for extra defense and successes on both Protect/Unleash to use on the Defense granting control or to give additional Crit strikes on the mastery. The effects are not guaranteed and it basically represents gaining accuracy rating like you would with the modifications on a normal blaster pistol or rifle.

With those changes you could either add in alot of damage with strength upgrades or increase the odds of you hitting.

10 pips would give basically Accurate 5 to the check.

This is just my analysis though everyone feel free to state your questions and feedback, and please also iterate on points you agree with as well! Thanks.

As I have commented on the Beta Update 9 thread, it is better to keep the damage of unleash at the same level as the damage absorption of protect to avoid disparities between the two powers.

In order to boost the damage dealt by Unleash and put it even with that of weapons it will be better to give it the Pierce or Breach 1 qualities. For example Pierce 3 or 4 or X where X = willpower could be options.

As I have commented on the Beta Update 9 thread, it is better to keep the damage of unleash at the same level as the damage absorption of protect to avoid disparities between the two powers.

In order to boost the damage dealt by Unleash and put it even with that of weapons it will be better to give it the Pierce or Breach 1 qualities. For example Pierce 3 or 4 or X where X = willpower could be options.

As I have commented on the Beta Update 9 thread, it is better to keep the damage of unleash at the same level as the damage absorption of protect to avoid disparities between the two powers.

My nitpick with the disparity, is that unleash has to overcome soak, where protect is cumulative (in most cases) with soak. so assuming 2 soak being the minimum (brawn 1 plus heavy clothes) and 4 soak being average, unleash is already has a disparity with protect.

That being said, unleash with the burn quality can be quite powerful, and the mastery upgrade is potent. I would like to see the strength upgrades add either advantage OR bonus damage, but even then, that might be bad as think of how much strain you could recover with a lucky roll.

As to adding pierce, I could see it having damage = will and pierce = will as a nice place to start, as that would effectively increase the damage without obliterating NPCs outright.

So how bout now? Strength upgrades add +1 to base damage now

So how bout now? Strength upgrades add +1 to base damage now

I am happy, it boosts the damage of Unleash without compromising the ability of Protect to totally negate the damage of Unleash.

It definitely needs Pierce 5 or so. Armor and muscles should not be any good against Force electricity or cold. Soak can get high in this game and it's a shame to see such an iconic power fizzle. Remember you do need to do damage to crit.

It definitely needs Pierce 5 or so. Armor and muscles should not be any good against Force electricity or cold. Soak can get high in this game and it's a shame to see such an iconic power fizzle. Remember you do need to do damage to crit.

Late reply, but I agree to this. In our last game, a dark jedi zapped one PC with Lightning to fry him. He was down at 1 hp and was going to be the "message" to the rest of the group not to mess with her cult. But the victim had so high Soak (even when heavily crippled and at the edge of death) that he absorbed it all. Move Object seemed to be a stronger option since it can easily make 10 damage but it's not as iconic display of dark sidery as Sith Lightning...

BUH-leted

On other element about Unleash to bear in mind is that based upon its many appearances as Force Lightning, particularly in the films and TCW series, is that it's never been shown to be a "one hit insta-kill" effect. The Emperor blasted Luke several times before finally deciding to off the uppity little brat, and it as Vader's failing life support that killed him, not the lightning he absorbed when throwing the old man to his doom.

The Mastery Upgrade even calls out that the character with this upgrade now has true Force Lightning, and only needs to squeak in a single point of damage to inflict a critical injury on the target. There's also the matter of the PC's successes from the Discipline check (which they should easily have several unless they've foolishly made Willpower a dump stat and ignored buying ranks in Discipline) being added to the damage. So while a Force user with Willpower 3 and Discipline 4 would only have a base damage of 3, odds are good they're going to able to boost that damage, and as they pick up Strength Upgrades they'll be able to use those extra Force points they generate from having Force Rating 3 to trigger those upgrades for more damage.

Still I have a PC with a soak 20+ 12+. Not doing anything to him with this power--one or five uses. Yet I can get to him with weapons with the stun quality. That makes him nervous and he would laugh at Unleash.

Edit becasue my mind needed a soak.

Still I have a PC with a soak 20+. Not doing anything to him with this power--one or five uses. Yet I can get to him with weapons with the stun quality. That makes him nervous and he would laugh at Unleash.

Well the fact your PC has pretty much broken the game by having a Soak Value that high is your own screw-up, and NOT a fault of how Unleash is currently written.

Because with a soak value that high, that PC is pretty much laughing off anything that could be feasibly deemed a "personal scale weapon" in the first place.

The main problem is that you allowed your PC to twist the system to get such an absurdly high soak value, particularly when under the rules it takes a pretty dedicated effort to get above a 10 for a soak value.

Still I have a PC with a soak 20+. Not doing anything to him with this power--one or five uses. Yet I can get to him with weapons with the stun quality. That makes him nervous and he would laugh at Unleash.

How does he get up to that high a soak in the first place?

So, here's what I've got on how it might be possible.

Being a Droid - 1 Soak

7 Brawn (possibly 5 from Characteristics, 2 from Cybernetic Enhancements) - 7 Soak

Steelskin Armor/Powered Armor - 3 Soak

Superior Attachment - 1 Soak

Armor Master Talent - 1 Soak

Implant Armor Cybernetic Enhancement - 1 Soak

Hired Gun/Marauder's Enduring Talents - 2 Soak

Ace/Gunner's Enduring Talents - 2 Soak

That's 18 soak, and still leaves the 1 ranks of Enduring in: Bounty Hunter/Survivalist, Hired Gun/Bodyguard, Hired Gun/Demolitionist, Technician or Engineer/Mechanic, Universal/Recruit (might be others I missed).

Min/maxing and drowning in XP and credits could definitely make this tank possible. Why enemies wouldn't spot this guy on sight and jump straight to heavy artillery though...

So, here's what I've got on how it might be possible.

Being a Droid - 1 Soak

7 Brawn (possibly 5 from Characteristics, 2 from Cybernetic Enhancements) - 7 Soak

You can get to 7 Brawn, but Cybernetics can only give you a max of +1 Brawn. You have to get to 6 Brawn through Characteristics.

Steelskin Armor/Powered Armor - 3 Soak

Superior Attachment - 1 Soak

Armor Master Talent - 1 Soak

Implant Armor Cybernetic Enhancement - 1 Soak

Hired Gun/Marauder's Enduring Talents - 2 Soak

Ace/Gunner's Enduring Talents - 2 Soak

That's 18 soak, and still leaves the 1 ranks of Enduring in: Bounty Hunter/Survivalist, Hired Gun/Bodyguard, Hired Gun/Demolitionist, Technician or Engineer/Mechanic, Universal/Recruit (might be others I missed).

Yeah, all the ranks of Enduring can really add up, if you take the right specializations.

For my Wookiee Maurauder/Heavy/Doctor/Force Sensitive Exile, I’ve made a point of trying to avoid as many of those Enduring talents as possible, because I don’t want to mess up the balance of the game. And my Wookiee doesn’t wear much in the way of armor. He’s a tank, but he takes his damage the right way, through Wound Threshold, not Soak.

Min/maxing and drowning in XP and credits could definitely make this tank possible. Why enemies wouldn't spot this guy on sight and jump straight to heavy artillery though...

Or Ion cannons. This walking droid tank would go down real fast against Ion weapons.

Against a that high-Soak player, I would have enemies try and aim for critical components to shut him down (aiming, taking 2 setbacks) rather than damage him directly.

And maybe waive the damage-dealt requirement for critical injuries inflicted by the Unleash power

So, here's what I've got on how it might be possible.

Being a Droid - 1 Soak

7 Brawn (possibly 5 from Characteristics, 2 from Cybernetic Enhancements) - 7 Soak

You can get to 7 Brawn, but Cybernetics can only give you a max of +1 Brawn. You have to get to 6 Brawn through Characteristics.

Steelskin Armor/Powered Armor - 3 Soak

Superior Attachment - 1 Soak

Armor Master Talent - 1 Soak

Implant Armor Cybernetic Enhancement - 1 Soak

Hired Gun/Marauder's Enduring Talents - 2 Soak

Ace/Gunner's Enduring Talents - 2 Soak

That's 18 soak, and still leaves the 1 ranks of Enduring in: Bounty Hunter/Survivalist, Hired Gun/Bodyguard, Hired Gun/Demolitionist, Technician or Engineer/Mechanic, Universal/Recruit (might be others I missed).

Yeah, all the ranks of Enduring can really add up, if you take the right specializations.

For my Wookiee Maurauder/Heavy/Doctor/Force Sensitive Exile, I’ve made a point of trying to avoid as many of those Enduring talents as possible, because I don’t want to mess up the balance of the game. And my Wookiee doesn’t wear much in the way of armor. He’s a tank, but he takes his damage the right way, through Wound Threshold, not Soak.

Min/maxing and drowning in XP and credits could definitely make this tank possible. Why enemies wouldn't spot this guy on sight and jump straight to heavy artillery though...

Or Ion cannons. This walking droid tank would go down real fast against Ion weapons.

I'd go for poison. Lords of Nal Hutta had some very nasty poison types, and they all only require a hit to apply and bypass soak.

I'd go for poison. Lords of Nal Hutta had some very nasty poison types, and they all only require a hit to apply and bypass soak.

On a droid??

I'll ask him, but calm down. To each his own. I let PCs take care of themselves and trust them. If they are within the system I don't have time or inclination to be police man.

I've gotten to him (damaged armor and then hurt him, stun and talents that ignore soak, soak doesn't matter in a starfighter).

Either way I don't think "energy" damage like lightning should be mitigated by armor or muscles whether the soak is 2 or 20.

I'll ask him, but calm down. To each his own. I let PCs take care of themselves and trust them. If they are within the system I don't have time or inclination to be police man.

I've gotten to him (damaged armor and then hurt him, stun and talents that ignore soak, soak doesn't matter in a starfighter).

Either way I don't think "energy" damage like lightning should be mitigated by armor or muscles whether the soak is 2 or 20.

And yet, your beef of "Unleash doesn't hurt my PC with Soak 20!" is still a point of contention over whether this power does or doesn't work.

Your player min-maxed the hell out of the system, and so most damage types that would make other PCs worry he can laugh off, be it Unleash or even light repeating blasters on autofire. You may not police your players in that regard, but it is something that has to be considered where Unleash is concerned.

Going by the various sources, Unleash is NOT and NEVER has been an 'insta-death attack' against anyone with an on-screen name. So having a PC's soak value apply against the damage is very much in keeping with the source material. Between Strength Upgrades and successes on the Discipline checks, any PC that hasn't min-maxed their Soak Value is going to have something to worry about, particularly once the Force user gets the Mastery Upgrade; only one point of damage needs to sneak through to trigger a critical injury, and at a cost of 1 Advantage, it could be very possible for the Force user to inflict some nasty long-term harm simply by activating the critical multiple times.

Ok well his soak is like 12 or 13. I asked him last night playing another game. He's going to email me the details.

Anyway sorry for all the number crunching I caused. I think I got confused with his WT for some reason.

OK so there is something between not being able to hurt this PC and insta kill.

If you are really concerned it not be insta kill then you should focus on the fact that it can crit at all because wounds don't kill in this system--only crits do that.

So to say it shouldn't insta kill is not a valid reply to wanting it to be able to wound more effectively. It's a valid reply if I said it should be +50 on the crit chart or something.

In my opinion the power is weak compared to what I see it do in the movies. The ability to get through soak more would help.

I'd go for poison. Lords of Nal Hutta had some very nasty poison types, and they all only require a hit to apply and bypass soak.

On a droid??

Actually... yes. Just rewrite it to be a sophisticated virus, find a way of having it introduced into his operating systems and keep the stats and mechanics from the poison writeup.

In my opinion the power is weak compared to what I see it do in the movies. The ability to get through soak more would help.

And as I said, the people we see it used against in the movies generally don't have absurd Soak Values. Luke's probably got a soak of 5 at best , presuming Brawn 4 and concealing robes (+1 soak), which compared to Palp's having Willpower 5 and Discipline 5 and likely having the Strength Upgrades and a Force Rating of at least a 5 means he could very easily replicate what we see done to Luke in the movies.

Same with Dooku against Anakin in AotC, with Anakin at that point probably having Brawn 3 and concealing robes (again +1 soak), with Anakin being "taken out" for a few rounds to allow Dooku to face Obi-Wan in a one-on-one match.

Against non-twinked PCs (which is the vast majority of them), the power as written is just fine, since it's dangerous to the PCs without being a one-shot kill. Which is also handy because it is very possible for PCs to also have access to this power, so it needs to be set-up that it doesn't one-shot the PC's adversaries as well.

In my opinion the power is weak compared to what I see it do in the movies. The ability to get through soak more would help.

And as I said, the people we see it used against in the movies generally don't have absurd Soak Values. Luke's probably got a soak of 5 at best , presuming Brawn 4 and concealing robes (+1 soak), which compared to Palp's having Willpower 5 and Discipline 5 and likely having the Strength Upgrades and a Force Rating of at least a 5 means he could very easily replicate what we see done to Luke in the movies.

Same with Dooku against Anakin in AotC, with Anakin at that point probably having Brawn 3 and concealing robes (again +1 soak), with Anakin being "taken out" for a few rounds to allow Dooku to face Obi-Wan in a one-on-one match.

Against non-twinked PCs (which is the vast majority of them), the power as written is just fine, since it's dangerous to the PCs without being a one-shot kill. Which is also handy because it is very possible for PCs to also have access to this power, so it needs to be set-up that it doesn't one-shot the PC's adversaries as well.

I think the example is a negative. You have to show where armor stopped it. Vader's armor did not.

A PC with that much power should expect it to do exactly what it does in the movies. If there is a need to balance the encounter I can make an adversary that can rebuke it.

Much like my high soak PC. Most attacks don't impact him. That's what he wants. So if a stormtrooper shoots him nothing. Does him no good when he's in a cockpit or has to decrypt a code under pressure or is under Force influence or...

The only time we see a death from Force Lightning in a movie is Mace Windu being pushed out of the window and Vader's cybernetics getting fried. Just going by the movies alone, no one dies directly from Force Lightning. They just scream and writhe.

Hell, I would have been happy if Unleash dealt a boat load of strain, which could also reflect the movies.