Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster...

Based on movies, yes, Force is really strong, and capable to do awesome things, but, no need to do damage 15 or critical +80, because no "Unleash" killed anyone ever. As general sensations the power are ok (maybe with the exception of move damage and unprecise/cinematic use of Push).

The "secondary effects" seems ok to me and enough to emulate almost 100% of the movie/show scenes.

It's true, except for a couple times a Dark Sider electrocutes minions in the Clone Wars (and games like SWTOR/KOTOR and TFU), no named characters are killed by Force Lightning. it's almost like Force Lightning is specifically used to inflict lingering effects on the target (Crit/Burn). The only person killed by Force Lightning that is a named character is Vader, and he was grievously injured already (multiple crit injuries & close to Wound Threshold).

Luke, Obi Wan, Savage Oppress, Yoda; all blasted by Force Lightning and injured/dazed/stunned, but not killed.

This is a good point. And now with the Mastery upgrade, you can be the "minion slayer" with a crit rating of 1.

The discussion regarding the Burn quality is interesting.

Maybe we've been playing the rule wrong, but my group always had burn damage bypass soak (unless there was some inherent reason not to, say a character on fire has specifically fire protective gear).

I suppose we based this off the edge of the empire section for fire, acid, and corrosive atmospheres, on page 214. there's nothing there that specifically states it ignores soak of course, but the wording of suffering wounds seems to be consistent with the idea that these things act directly on the character, rather than acting in an external factor. Since the entry for burn uses the same language as this section ("suffers wounds") we just assumed that burn bypassed soak.

This line of reasoning seems to be supported by a completely unrelated product, Onslaught at Arda I. Startin on page 93, there are a number of different skill checks that cause a target to suffer damage. damage that would be completely negated by the target's soak. so unless certain effects (like burn) bypass soak, then their impact is not really noticeable. (of course in the Arda example, it's still not helpful that the words suffer, inflict, and sustain are used pretty interchangeably).

Maybe for the purposes of that upgrade, they could just add a simple statement that this particular burn damage bypasses soak?

The discussion regarding the Burn quality is interesting.

Maybe we've been playing the rule wrong, but my group always had burn damage bypass soak (unless there was some inherent reason not to, say a character on fire has specifically fire protective gear).

I suppose we based this off the edge of the empire section for fire, acid, and corrosive atmospheres, on page 214. there's nothing there that specifically states it ignores soak of course, but the wording of suffering wounds seems to be consistent with the idea that these things act directly on the character, rather than acting in an external factor. Since the entry for burn uses the same language as this section ("suffers wounds") we just assumed that burn bypassed soak.

This line of reasoning seems to be supported by a completely unrelated product, Onslaught at Arda I. Startin on page 93, there are a number of different skill checks that cause a target to suffer damage. damage that would be completely negated by the target's soak. so unless certain effects (like burn) bypass soak, then their impact is not really noticeable. (of course in the Arda example, it's still not helpful that the words suffer, inflict, and sustain are used pretty interchangeably).

Maybe for the purposes of that upgrade, they could just add a simple statement that this particular burn damage bypasses soak?

Huh.. it does say "suffer," and the info on page 214 EotE (156 FaD Beta) is interesting, especially since in Table 6-8 it lists things like flame projectors and other weapons. And this effect in chapter 6 clearly inflicts wounds , not "damage."

Now I get the strong feeling that I've had this discussion before. So Burn doesn't need a Pierce rating; it already essentially ignores Soak by being straight "wounds suffered" rather than "damage inflicted."

Burn and Soak

Question asked by 2P51 :

Does soak apply to Burn effect?

Answered by Sam Stewart

Soak does apply to burn

Burn and Soak

Question asked by 2P51 :

Does soak apply to Burn effect?

Answered by Sam Stewart

Soak does apply to burn

Ha! That would likely be where I remember the discussion from okay, good to know.

And now I feel a certain sense of validation from my own work. Excuse me while I board this boat and sail to the Undying Lands.

*plays "Into the West" for Kaosoe*

Why couldn't they just add "Ignores Soak" to the power? It's already there for the first control upgrade for strain.

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster...

Based on movies, yes, Force is really strong, and capable to do awesome things, but, no need to do damage 15 or critical +80, because no "Unleash" killed anyone ever. As general sensations the power are ok (maybe with the exception of move damage and unprecise/cinematic use of Push).

The "secondary effects" seems ok to me and enough to emulate almost 100% of the movie/show scenes.

It's true, except for a couple times a Dark Sider electrocutes minions in the Clone Wars (and games like SWTOR/KOTOR and TFU), no named characters are killed by Force Lightning. it's almost like Force Lightning is specifically used to inflict lingering effects on the target (Crit/Burn). The only person killed by Force Lightning that is a named character is Vader, and he was grievously injured already (multiple crit injuries & close to Wound Threshold).

Luke, Obi Wan, Savage Oppress, Yoda; all blasted by Force Lightning and injured/dazed/stunned, but not killed.

Mace Windu would like to have a word with you. Oh wait, he dead!

I believe this thread had gone slightly off-topic. I want to point out again to those claiming that Unleash isn't an energy weapon that you are simply targeting them with force energy.

In the movies there was just as much of a difficulty hitting a target with lightning as there was to hit a target with a weapon.

Lightsabers were seen effectively blocking or even reflecting lightning (Windu vs Palpatine) a mechanic requiring an opposed roll. Obviously even after the attack roll for extreme range, the difficulty of hitting with lightning would go up proportionally as well.

Besides it also explains the balance between unleash vs protect.

Yoda obviously has a better pool to work with because it's not opposed however the base damage is lower. Plus Dooku has a lower willpower than Dooku who probably both have maximum discipline.

When going against Obi-Wan in the earlier scene Obi-Wan uses reflect and has a high defense due to Defensive Training and Defensive stance giving Windu upgrades to the difficulty. Dooku probably has a willpower 4 giving him 8 base damage plus successes, Obi-Wan absorbs all of it easily with his ranks in deflect and Dooku really doesn't have enough extra successes left over.

Yoda on the other hand probably has a 6 willpower vs Dooku's 4 willpower giving him a base protect of 6, only two points lower than Dooku. However due to the extra successession left over on protect and Yoda possibly using Defensive Stance and Sense on Dooku giving him 4 upgrades and at least 1 Defense, before he even uses his extra advantage to further boost his defense.

Yoda obviously has the upperhand with the Force and most likely a higher force rating as well.

I'm wondering about the Burn quality with the Unleash power and the strength upgrades.

Burn deals base damage for a few turns. Should we count base damage as =willpower, or as =Willpower+strength upgrades.

I do think it should be the later one because everyone will soak all or almost all damage if it's only willpower.

Mace Windu would like to have a word with you. Oh wait, he dead!

1. He Reflected most of that attack.

2. Show me a body. Then I'll believe he's dead. ;)

Oh shi-

Mace Windu in episode 7 confirmed.

<Waiting for next update>

It's here

Beta Update 10 has nothing to do with this thread.

Beta Update 10 has nothing to do with this thread.

Well is did try a different fix for the unleash. Namely now strength ads a +1 to base damage.

Wow, I can't believe I missed that.

Wow, I can't believe I missed that.

It was a pretty minute change...easy to miss.

And now I feel a certain sense of validation from my own work. Excuse me while I board this boat and sail to the Undying Lands.

That thread is actually very appreciated, but seeing as I usually don't use the forums, well, it would be nice again if things like this were in the official faq on the official website.

not that your work is any less valid, it'd just be nice if your work was more visible.