Everything is now equal canon as long as it is canon.

All things might be equal now, but all of the old sources are no longer canon. The old EU is gone, and with it goes any reference to the 9.6m a-wing.

Also like I said before for all we know there couldve been a intent to have a uppercase A-Wing and a lowercase a-Wing blocks very sim to how Japan has a huge version of the F-16.

No such plane exists.

I also noted that the scale deductions for the A-wing being small are all based on the pilot. Is it not possible that the pilot in the model is just wrong?

It is theoretically possible, but not likely. Remember, the interior cockpit shots confirm the general size of the pilot figure in the ship model and scaling the pilot down enough to justify the 9.6m length would require the pilot to be about 1/2 to 1/3 of their actual size.

Can we please stop using the interior shot? It was a different set, it has no useful information. The interior set of the falcon would have Chewies legs dangling in space. This is literally useless information.

Also you can look up the F-2 Viper Zero its made by Mitsubishi sorta...

Yes, I looked it up when you first mentioned the giant F-16. And the F-2 is not a giant F-16. It's a normal-size F-16 with a different wing shape and a slightly longer nose section. It is NOT simply an F-16 that doubled or tripled in size without changing shape at all, like the 9.6m a-wing compared to the real a-wing.

Can we please stop using the interior shot?

No, because it establishes the intent to have the a-wing cockpit be a fairly tight fit around the pilot. Which confirms what we see with the a-wing ship model that was used in ROTJ. You can't just discard film evidence because it contradicts some ridiculous EU number.

The interior set of the falcon would have Chewies legs dangling in space.

Only because you can see things in that picture that aren't visible on-screen in the actual movie. All that shot proves is that they didn't bother making the exterior window frame the correct size in areas that weren't visible from the angles that the set was used for. The a-wing, on the other hand, has no such problem. The parts I'm talking about are clearly visible on-screen and intended to be that size relative to the pilot.

It is theoretically possible, but not likely. Remember, the interior cockpit shots confirm the general size of the pilot figure in the ship model and scaling the pilot down enough to justify the 9.6m length would require the pilot to be about 1/2 to 1/3 of their actual size.

Would they not refer to the filming model when building the interior? That is to say, if the pilot model is wrong, that'll be carried over the the scale of the cockpit build?

Also you can look up the F-2 Viper Zero its made by Mitsubishi sorta...

Yes, I looked it up when you first mentioned the giant F-16. And the F-2 is not a giant F-16. It's a normal-size F-16 with a different wing shape and a slightly longer nose section. It is NOT simply an F-16 that doubled or tripled in size without changing shape at all, like the 9.6m a-wing compared to the real a-wing.

Hornet vs. Super Hornet is the closest example we have in the US.

But as you can see, the cockpit is the same size regardless of the rest of the jet. People are pretty much always people size, cockpits tend to reflect this.

Only because you can see things in that picture that aren't visible on-screen in the actual movie. All that shot proves is that they didn't bother making the exterior window frame the correct size in areas that weren't visible from the angles that the set was used for. The a-wing, on the other hand, has no such problem. The parts I'm talking about are clearly visible on-screen and intended to be that size relative to the pilot.

If I understand you properly, somethings in the movies are incorrect and others are correct. I might agree with this because using the movie as the definitive source is clearly not reliable.

But I continue further to say it isn't up to me as an individual to decide which is and isn't based on what I see in the movie. There are some scenes that fans believe the A-Wing to be the proper size of 9.6 meters, other scenes contradict this.

But regardless the Intellectual Property (IP) Owers has said the A-Wing is 9.6. We may disagree with them based on our favorite scenes in the movie but that doesn't put me in charge or give me the indisputable right to invalidate their IP.

But wait! If I was in charge then.............................

Naw they'd never go for it.

The full Space Endor video I've been using for screencaps. Tried to get some stills of the DSII superstructure run but it's really hard to get the ships in the same place.

Some shots the A-wing looks like FFG's one, and some it looks much smaller.

**** that whole thing's cool!

Anyway, sod the A-Wing being too small, why the hell did they think a YT-1300 would be the ship of choice to lead an assault in a narrow, twisty tunnel? And why did they bring all those transports and medical ships to the battle - were they thinking they might have time for some looting before it blew up? Honestly, the Rebels were idiots, if the Empire hadn't been idiots too there's no way that would have worked,

Star Wars never makes sense though, its just fun.

Think about it, they already established at the battle of yavin that the weakness of a 'death star' is small fighters... first time round only one trench to go down...

new death star gets built, tons of gaps in it... the sensible thing woudl be to to hyperspace in every single A wing you have to make highly agile death star 'trench runs' through the gap and leave everything else at home.

Would have made a naff movie though

Also you can look up the F-2 Viper Zero its made by Mitsubishi sorta...

Yes, I looked it up when you first mentioned the giant F-16. And the F-2 is not a giant F-16. It's a normal-size F-16 with a different wing shape and a slightly longer nose section. It is NOT simply an F-16 that doubled or tripled in size without changing shape at all, like the 9.6m a-wing compared to the real a-wing.

Can we please stop using the interior shot?

No, because it establishes the intent to have the a-wing cockpit be a fairly tight fit around the pilot. Which confirms what we see with the a-wing ship model that was used in ROTJ. You can't just discard film evidence because it contradicts some ridiculous EU number.

The interior set of the falcon would have Chewies legs dangling in space.

Only because you can see things in that picture that aren't visible on-screen in the actual movie. All that shot proves is that they didn't bother making the exterior window frame the correct size in areas that weren't visible from the angles that the set was used for. The a-wing, on the other hand, has no such problem. The parts I'm talking about are clearly visible on-screen and intended to be that size relative to the pilot.

I didn't say the F-2 is three times bigger but it is a monster compared to other countries version of the F-16. Setting them up side by side and youl see that.

The full Space Endor video I've been using for screencaps. Tried to get some stills of the DSII superstructure run but it's really hard to get the ships in the same place. Some shots the A-wing looks like FFG's one, and some it looks much smaller. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZigWFyK2o

**** that whole thing's cool!Anyway, sod the A-Wing being too small, why the hell did they think a YT-1300 would be the ship of choice to lead an assault in a narrow, twisty tunnel? And why did they bring all those transports and medical ships to the battle - were they thinking they might have time for some looting before it blew up? Honestly, the Rebels were idiots, if the Empire hadn't been idiots too there's no way that would have worked,

If you go by the blueprints given to Rebels during there event run down the tunnles don't look anywhere near as bad as they really were.

I wouldn't consider any actions made on both sides as idiotic. The transportships and possible even the med ship was to be used as fleet blockers as the fighters entered the DS. They also caried tanks and ground forces for a quick assault on endor if the commandos had not completed there mission. Because ok Luke that force ran into the two thirds of the IMP army searching for rebs on endor, including the AT-ATs stationed on Endor. Renegade Squadron also ran into that conflict.

Star Wars never makes sense though, its just fun.

Think about it, they already established at the battle of yavin that the weakness of a 'death star' is small fighters... first time round only one trench to go down...

new death star gets built, tons of gaps in it... the sensible thing woudl be to to hyperspace in every single A wing you have to make highly agile death star 'trench runs' through the gap and leave everything else at home.

Would have made a naff movie though

I would worry about using a all A-Wing strike force because how unstable there engines are.

Any way you look at it, FFG used the [wrong] figures from LFL and probably didn't have much of a choice, so I don't think they can be faulted for it.

The TIEs are not scale either

Look in the back of the X-wing rulebook if you want to find out just how certain FFG are that the TIE fighter isn't off.

I devoured the rulebook before setting up the ships for the first time. This game was obviously made with a lot of love; quantifiably more than can be found at a corporate licensing division. I have no real issue with FFG's approach, considering. My issue is that the numbers provided to them were wrong.

In the instance of the TIE fighters, it looks like the FFG model would be about 9m long, compared to the X-Wing. That's almost certainly based on this figure from the official Star Wars databank: "Length: 8.99m"

Aside from a 9m TIE looking comically large, the following dimensions are from the official Star Wars databank concerning the B-Wing: "Length: 16.9m"

Note the exact same syntax as the TIE entry. Do you entertain the idea that the B-Wing is 17m long from the tip of its cannons to the back engine nozzles? Of course not. That is obviously a measure of height—the dimensions listed in the databank tend to favor measurement on the longest axis.

Now even Wookieepedia agrees with me that the TIE should instead be just over half the length of the X-Wing, which I think is relatively consistent in the films. I definitely agree that a TIE cockpit appears spacious, but with a 9m long craft, which is what the FFG model represents, the cockpit interior would be TEN FEET FROM WALL TO WALL. With a 6m craft it would be closer to a six foot diameter, which is both spacious and has the benefit of being consistent with the films.

The TIEs are not scale, man. Neither is the A-Wing. Again, I don't pin that FFG—I think they did the right thing. I love this game and its slightly-out-of-scale minis. It's a better representative than anything I've seen, and it works well the way it is. But I will not concede that the LFL numbers are accurate. They just aren't.

TIE fighters are not to scale?

There's a section in the back of the rulebook about how they were devoted to getting the TIEs to scale.

To the scale of those models, you mean. Take a look at the cockpit compared to the X-Wing cockpit. It's craaaazy. Actually, try making an established ugly.

Then you'll see how comically massive TIE pods are in this game.

TIE fighters are not to scale?

There's a section in the back of the rulebook about how they were devoted to getting the TIEs to scale.

Maybe you didn't read my post, but I know exactly what section of the rulebook you're talking about. I agree with you about their devotion—that's not in dispute. The specs they got from LFL are wrong, that's all.

To clarify, the LFL/FFG-scale TIE in this game has an equivalent ten-foot diameter cockpit: you could stand up in it, and then stand someone on your shoulders. Back-of-the-napkin math puts the LFL/FFG-scale A-Wing cockpit—just the transparent part—at around eight feet long. Let that sink in.

The scale is wrong.

Any way you look at it, FFG used the [wrong] figures from LFL and probably didn't have much of a choice, so I don't think they can be faulted for it.

The TIEs are not scale either

Look in the back of the X-wing rulebook if you want to find out just how certain FFG are that the TIE fighter isn't off.

I devoured the rulebook before setting up the ships for the first time. This game was obviously made with a lot of love; quantifiably more than can be found at a corporate licensing division. I have no real issue with FFG's approach, considering. My issue is that the numbers provided to them were wrong.

In the instance of the TIE fighters, it looks like the FFG model would be about 9m long, compared to the X-Wing. That's almost certainly based on this figure from the official Star Wars databank: "Length: 8.99m"

Aside from a 9m TIE looking comically large, the following dimensions are from the official Star Wars databank concerning the B-Wing: "Length: 16.9m"

Note the exact same syntax as the TIE entry. Do you entertain the idea that the B-Wing is 17m long from the tip of its cannons to the back engine nozzles? Of course not. That is obviously a measure of height—the dimensions listed in the databank tend to favor measurement on the longest axis.

Now even Wookieepedia agrees with me that the TIE should instead be just over half the length of the X-Wing, which I think is relatively consistent in the films. I definitely agree that a TIE cockpit appears spacious, but with a 9m long craft, which is what the FFG model represents, the cockpit interior would be TEN FEET FROM WALL TO WALL. With a 6m craft it would be closer to a six foot diameter, which is both spacious and has the benefit of being consistent with the films.

The TIEs are not scale, man. Neither is the A-Wing. Again, I don't pin that FFG—I think they did the right thing. I love this game and its slightly-out-of-scale minis. It's a better representative than anything I've seen, and it works well the way it is. But I will not concede that the LFL numbers are accurate. They just aren't.

You really ought to post pictures showing the TIEs in the films relative to the XWings, for those of us too lazy to check them ourselves. I thoughts the TIEs looked fine, to be honest. What makes you think the cockpit is supposed to be just big enough to fit a person in? There's bugger all to the rest of the ship is there, so that's where everything has to go.

To clarify, the LFL/FFG-scale TIE in this game has an equivalent ten-foot diameter cockpit: you could stand up in it, and then stand someone on your shoulders.

The ball isn't just the cockpit, it's a fuselage too. Everything is in there. If you look at really close up shots of TIEs only the top half of the window can be seen through.

Back-of-the-napkin math puts the LFL/FFG-scale A-Wing cockpit—just the transparent part—at around eight feet long. Let that sink in.

Assumes the bubble canopy is tight to the pilot. It could be a four foot cockpit with half of it as controls.

My friend who was anticipating Armada just told me today that Armada wave 1 totaled up to $290. He said he was out already due to cost. I was never in, but that does seem steep for just 1 of each available model and it is only wave 1.

I can't tell which would be more amusing: the Armada A-Wing ending up still too big or way too small to appease the scale fanatics

Armada isn't to scale.

Well, there's this:

Ignore the image on the right, obviously. This was the interior set for the TIE fighters in Episode IV.

"No, the most cannon official values are the ones obtained directly from the movies. And the movies show a much smaller a-wing."

so...you, as a faithful fan, can SEE that the A-wing is size "X" while Disney/LFL the official owners of said A-wing say it is size "Y"

I get the issue.

I have no problem with how the A-wings are scaled in the game.

To clarify, the LFL/FFG-scale TIE in this game has an equivalent ten-foot diameter cockpit: you could stand up in it, and then stand someone on your shoulders.

The ball isn't just the cockpit, it's a fuselage too. Everything is in there. If you look at really close up shots of TIEs only the top half of the window can be seen through.

Back-of-the-napkin math puts the LFL/FFG-scale A-Wing cockpit—just the transparent part—at around eight feet long. Let that sink in.

Assumes the bubble canopy is tight to the pilot. It could be a four foot cockpit with half of it as controls.

only the top half of the window can be seen through

That's also not inconsistent with what I'm saying. On most TIEs that we've seen, the controls creep halfway up the window from both interior and exterior shots. The pilot is situated with his head being roughly in the center of the sphere. You can see that the fuselage is only an inch or two thick by looking at any image of a TIE window (top and front both). The TIE cockpit interior in all the shots from the movies appear to be fairly consistent—There is just no way the central ball portion of a canon TIE represents a 3 meter sphere. Additionally, you're arguing for specs that would put a TIE at 13.5 meters tall. If it's easier for you to think in terms of feet (which it is for me) that's about 44 feet tall. That's average four-story apartment building tall. Two T-Rexes tall.

You may not accept Rebels as having any say in the matter, which is fine, but if you're willing to consider it please watch the episode "Fighter Flight". Although the TIE's side panels on that show are obviously shorter, it is otherwise proportioned consistently with the films—but NOT with LFL's claim of nine meters.

To clarify, the LFL/FFG-scale TIE in this game has an equivalent ten-foot diameter cockpit: you could stand up in it, and then stand someone on your shoulders.

The ball isn't just the cockpit, it's a fuselage too. Everything is in there. If you look at really close up shots of TIEs only the top half of the window can be seen through.

Back-of-the-napkin math puts the LFL/FFG-scale A-Wing cockpit—just the transparent part—at around eight feet long. Let that sink in.

Assumes the bubble canopy is tight to the pilot. It could be a four foot cockpit with half of it as controls.

could be a four foot cockpit

That's not inconsistent with what I'm saying [unless you mean four feet wide]. Whoever claims the FFG A-Wing is in scale is effectively saying that bubble canopy is actually eight feet long . Look at that pilot's head. That is not a goddammed eight-foot long bubble canopy.

only the top half of the window can be seen through

That's also not inconsistent with what I'm saying. On most TIEs that we've seen, the controls creep halfway up the window from both interior and exterior shots. The pilot is situated with his head being roughly in the center of the sphere. You can see that the fuselage is only an inch or two thick by looking at any image of a TIE window (top and front both). The TIE cockpit interior in all the shots from the movies appear to be fairly consistent—There is just no way the central ball portion of a canon TIE represents a 3 meter sphere. Additionally, you're arguing for specs that would put a TIE at 13.5 meters tall. If it's easier for you to think in terms of feet (which it is for me) that's about 44 feet tall. That's average four-story apartment building tall. Two T-Rexes tall.

You may not accept Rebels as having any say in the matter, which is fine, but if you're willing to consider it please watch the episode "Fighter Flight". Although the TIE's side panels on that show are obviously shorter, it is otherwise proportioned consistently with the films—but NOT with LFL's claim of nine meters.

You really ought to post pictures showing the TIEs in the films relative to the XWings, for those of us too lazy to check them ourselves. I thoughts the TIEs looked fine, to be honest. What makes you think the cockpit is supposed to be just big enough to fit a person in? There's bugger all to the rest of the ship is there, so that's where everything has to go.

Not "just big enough". At 2m interior diameter, which I think is indicated on screen, there's plenty of room. At 3m, you're getting into the small bedroom range.

I think the TIEs look fine, too. The scale is wrong—as a matter of fact. I'm mostly okay with that. The only thing I have a problem with, being a matter of principle, is people claiming otherwise.

After taking a look at a diffrent scale model for the A-Wing, I believe a picture of it is on the offical SW home page, I believe ether there twoo diffrent sized A-Wings or one of the models had a incorrect sized pilot and LFL was left with a choice to pick which one they wanted to be the canon size.

Alternative debate: The Y-Wing's too small.

...Now let's hope I've not started anything.

Can someone move this to the Game that should nott be named Forum ?

That's not inconsistent with what I'm saying [unless you mean four feet wide]. Whoever claims the FFG A-Wing is in scale is effectively saying that bubble canopy is actually eight feet long . Look at that pilot's head. That is not a goddammed eight-foot long bubble canopy.

Assuming the pilot is to scale and not simply a model that fit. Based on the movie shots FFG's A-wing looks about right relative to the other ships.

That's not inconsistent with what I'm saying [unless you mean four feet wide]. Whoever claims the FFG A-Wing is in scale is effectively saying that bubble canopy is actually eight feet long . Look at that pilot's head. That is not a goddammed eight-foot long bubble canopy.

Assuming the pilot is to scale and not simply a model that fit. Based on the movie shots FFG's A-wing looks about right relative to the other ships.

The dark Lord really likes his ship...like maybe a little too much.