SO YOU ADMIT IT'S LITTLE?!

Honestly from that video it looks to be nearly the size of an X-Wing to me. It takes up nearly as much space... But that doesn't really matter, not when it comes to XWM the game.

Right or wrong, LFL has set the official size of the A-Wing at 9.6m long.

FFG had to use the official size provided by LFL, because they own the license and have final approval.

So unless you can show that FFG had another option open to them for the size of the A-Wing then how big the A-Wing is in the movie is a moot point. Unless you can convince LFL to change the canon size and then get FFG to reprint them at that size.

Yep, nowt FFG can do.

FFG Please close this thread, or give these people an answer this doesn't happen again.......

Pretty please?

OK, we're edging into the realms of TL:DR again. Doesn't at least one A-Wing (and, incredulously, a Y-Wing if I recall correctly) fly inside DS2? Surely somebody less lazy than I could find some shots of the same area of tunnel with the different ships in it, for conclusive proof?

That is assuming they were both there in the original Jedi, who knows how the scale changed at later dates...

The full Space Endor video I've been using for screencaps. Tried to get some stills of the DSII superstructure run but it's really hard to get the ships in the same place.

Some shots the A-wing looks like FFG's one, and some it looks much smaller.

FFG Please close this thread, or give these people an answer this doesn't happen again.......

Pretty please?

Once again, easiest way to not have to look at a discussion you don't like isn't to get FFG to blow it up.

It's to not click on the thread.

LFL are NOT the people who made it.

ILM then. Which is part of LFL.

So unless you can show that FFG had another option open to them for the size of the A-Wing then how big the A-Wing is in the movie is a moot point. Unless you can convince LFL to change the canon size and then get FFG to reprint them at that size.

You're assuming FFG doesn't agree on the scale of the A-wing.

Here is an easy way to test it. Take out your Y-wing model and your A-wing model. Check out their cockpit sizes.

Which is bigger?

Which one fits 1 person and which one fits 2 people?

If the cockpit that fits one person is as large or larger than the 2 person cockpit, there is probably a scale issue.

Now maybe the scale issue is because the one person ship is meant to only have Wookies and Trandoshans flying them, or maybe it is because the ship models are built to a different scale.

Those are probably the most canon official values, and based on them, the scaling in X-Wing is correct.

No, the most cannon official values are the ones obtained directly from the movies. And the movies show a much smaller a-wing.

I'm sorry I just don't understand this position. I'm not trying to be rude. I thought that cannon was what the Intellectual Property owners say it is. Yes, like the Executioner, they can change the scale. Make it smaller, larger, microscopic. But the companies that license the material is legally bound by the property owners not the fans . The fans can complain, make all sorts of arguments, even say that they are the true voice of all that is right and true. That doesn't make the world flat or their point valid.

The tiny A-wings are from one painted backdrop for RotJ where the painter wasn't given any scale information and thus that backdrop scalewise isn't even consistent with the rest of the film.

No, they're from pictures of the model used in the film:

See how small it is relative to the pilot? Either the a-wing is a TINY ship, or a-wing pilots are all 10' tall aliens. And just to deal with any questions about "they weren't careful with the scale of the pilot figure you can't even see in the film" the interior shots from the movie show a very similar tight fit for the pilot:

Now, it's likely that the scale in the two shots isn't quite a 100% match, but they both confirm a very small a-wing. Any mismatch is the difference between "much smaller than the FFG model" and "much smaller than the FFG model, but very slightly larger than the other option".

As for movie cannon:

If you're argument is correct then cannon requires Chewie's feet to dangle in space.

P.S. I happen to be okay with the size as they are portrayed in X-Wing. It is according to LFL, it is actually cannon.

And Han did shoot first.

Here is an easy way to test it. Take out your Y-wing model and your A-wing model. Check out their cockpit sizes.

Which is bigger?

Which one fits 1 person and which one fits 2 people?

If the cockpit that fits one person is as large or larger than the 2 person cockpit, there is probably a scale issue.

Now maybe the scale issue is because the one person ship is meant to only have Wookies and Trandoshans flying them, or maybe it is because the ship models are built to a different scale.

Now compare the Z-95 and the X-wing models. Then compare the X-wing and the TIE fighter.

The scale of the ships in the movie was made to fit the movie. Just like when some actors stand on platforms to make them look taller or when Lucas make several scales of ships to fit the scene. The cannon scale is what LFL says it is. Everything else is just our own opinion.

LFL may someday say oops the A-Wing is actually 20 meters long, and that will be cannon then.

Here is an easy way to test it. Take out your Y-wing model and your A-wing model. Check out their cockpit sizes.

Which is bigger?

Which one fits 1 person and which one fits 2 people?

If the cockpit that fits one person is as large or larger than the 2 person cockpit, there is probably a scale issue.

Now maybe the scale issue is because the one person ship is meant to only have Wookies and Trandoshans flying them, or maybe it is because the ship models are built to a different scale.

Now compare the Z-95 and the X-wing models. Then compare the X-wing and the TIE fighter.

Now look back at me, I'm on a horse.

Yeah, I am not sure how spacious a Z-95 is supposed to be, I never saw it in the film. Fortunately I have seen the TIEs in action, and there is a ton of space inside them.

Those are probably the most canon official values, and based on them, the scaling in X-Wing is correct.

No, the most cannon official values are the ones obtained directly from the movies. And the movies show a much smaller a-wing.

I'm sorry I just don't understand this position. I'm not trying to be rude. I thought that cannon was what the Intellectual Property owners say it is. Yes, like the Executioner, they can change the scale. Make it smaller, larger, microscopic. But the companies that license the material is legally bound by the property owners not the fans . The fans can complain, make all sorts of arguments, even say that they are the true voice of all that is right and true. That doesn't make the world flat or their point valid.

The tiny A-wings are from one painted backdrop for RotJ where the painter wasn't given any scale information and thus that backdrop scalewise isn't even consistent with the rest of the film.

No, they're from pictures of the model used in the film:

See how small it is relative to the pilot? Either the a-wing is a TINY ship, or a-wing pilots are all 10' tall aliens. And just to deal with any questions about "they weren't careful with the scale of the pilot figure you can't even see in the film" the interior shots from the movie show a very similar tight fit for the pilot:

Now, it's likely that the scale in the two shots isn't quite a 100% match, but they both confirm a very small a-wing. Any mismatch is the difference between "much smaller than the FFG model" and "much smaller than the FFG model, but very slightly larger than the other option".

As for movie cannon:

If you're argument is correct then cannon requires Chewie's feet to dangle in space.

P.S. I happen to be okay with the size as they are portrayed in X-Wing. It is according to LFL, it is actually cannon.

And Han did shoot first.

You do realize that you just admited that LFL has problems with their scaling numbers, right?

There might be a ton of space inside them but unless those helmet lens are connected to a 180 or 360 degree display there is a reason they die like flies.

I've got a tie pilot cosplay costume and you can see bugger all with one of those buckets on your head

I have figured out the solution, use 2-3 extra stand peices for the A-wings and always look at the game from above!

Wouldn't that make the A-wing look relatively bigger?

In other news, thanks to Battlefront II I've got an image of an X-wing and an A-wing in (almost) FFG scale with visible pilots.

Going by the stats in the back of my 2014 Complete Vehicles cross-sections book, the A-Wing is 9.6m long, while the Y-wing is 16.

Those stats are wrong. It's kind of like how, for a long time, the official length of the Executor was ~8km despite indisputable evidence from the movies that it was much longer. Why? Because some old RPG supplement had said 8km, and that's what everyone kept using. It was finally changed after fans persuaded someone to make the correct (~16km IIRC) length official and stop using the incorrect number.

Those are probably the most canon official values, and based on them, the scaling in X-Wing is correct.

No, the most cannon official values are the ones obtained directly from the movies. And the movies show a much smaller a-wing.

(Also, remember that virtually all EU stuff, including your book, is no longer canon.)

Thats not what two important SW writters said about Legends, one of them being a writter for Rebels. Its all secondary Canon.

That being said what is written scale wise is correct when approved by LFL. IM going to check the model used in ROTJ but IM sure that it would be 9.6m long in 1/1 scale.

There might be a ton of space inside them but unless those helmet lens are connected to a 180 or 360 degree display there is a reason they die like flies.

I've got a tie pilot cosplay costume and you can see bugger all with one of those buckets on your head

The have the ability to see in other angles and see locked on targets through the hull. I made a big list of things TIE gear does dont ya remember =p

Just like theres unwritten lore for the single barrel Y-Wing BTL-A4 turret how do we know there wasnt supposed to be two versions of A-Wing? It could share some sim history that the F-16 and F-2 Zero Viper share. That F-2 is a giant monster alt block of the F-16 A/B

You do realize that you just admited that LFL has problems with their scaling numbers, right?

Yes! Exactly right. Thank you! Whoo Hoo!!!!!

The movies had a scale that fit the scene the director had in mind. Something like TOS Star Trek with different directors wanting/insisting on different buttons for the same function or the latest Star Trek movie with ships that had large open spaces. In movies the scene is all important. For the mood it sets, the actors to act/react, for the feeling it portrays. Some directors insist in proper scale, physics, etc. Others take artistic license with practically anything.

And for all the stuff that is supposed to fit into an A-Wing (how many missiles, ECM, RECON, etc...) I'm good with the size.

However this is a miniature game with specs directly from the owners of the design.

And that... is canon.

IM going to check the model used in ROTJ but IM sure that it would be 9.6m long in 1/1 scale.

You are sure, but you are wrong. I already posted a picture showing the ROTJ model with lines drawn to scale it based on the size of the visible pilot, and it supports the "tiny a-wing" numbers. And then there's an official source which confirms that the ROTJ model was small (from here :

A size analysis of the studio model used for Return of the Jedi suggests that the length of the ship is twice as short as the documented 9.6 meters. Star Wars Technical Journal (Volume Three) states the model is 60 cm long and the pilot figure a 1/8 scale action figure, which results into a length of 4.8 meters.

However this is a miniature game with specs directly from the owners of the design.

And that... is canon.

No it isn't. Even according to LFL's own canon policies the movies take priority over all EU sources, and the movies show a tiny a-wing. The fact that some later EU source said it is bigger just means that LFL gave "EU-official" status to an incorrect number.

And also note that while the large a-wing number is "official" according to the IP owner it does NOT come from anyone involved in designing the a-wing models/sets or filming scenes involving the a-wing. So the number is just some IP lawyers saying "this source is approved", not a statement of intent from the artist.

IM going to check the model used in ROTJ but IM sure that it would be 9.6m long in 1/1 scale.

You are sure, but you are wrong. I already posted a picture showing the ROTJ model with lines drawn to scale it based on the size of the visible pilot, and it supports the "tiny a-wing" numbers. And then there's an official source which confirms that the ROTJ model was small (from here :

A size analysis of the studio model used for Return of the Jedi suggests that the length of the ship is twice as short as the documented 9.6 meters. Star Wars Technical Journal (Volume Three) states the model is 60 cm long and the pilot figure a 1/8 scale action figure, which results into a length of 4.8 meters.

However this is a miniature game with specs directly from the owners of the design.

And that... is canon.

No it isn't. Even according to LFL's own canon policies the movies take priority over all EU sources, and the movies show a tiny a-wing. The fact that some later EU source said it is bigger just means that LFL gave "EU-official" status to an incorrect number.

And also note that while the large a-wing number is "official" according to the IP owner it does NOT come from anyone involved in designing the a-wing models/sets or filming scenes involving the a-wing. So the number is just some IP lawyers saying "this source is approved", not a statement of intent from the artist.

Every fighter in ROTJ had at least two diffrent scales of model, some maybe three.

Your also using OLD rules for canon. Everything is now equal canon as long as it is canon. You got primary and secondary canon BUT unlike in the past everything you see is equal, feat, skill, lore, powerwise. Just as an example because all the canon mediums are equal canon what you Star Killer do is nolonger a exageration like it was under the older canon scale system

Also like I said before for all we know there couldve been a intent to have a uppercase A-Wing and a lowercase a-Wing blocks very sim to how Japan has a huge version of the F-16.

Looked at the scale discussion on Wookiee: I can buy 7m but 4.6m doesn't match the film shots.

I also noted that the scale deductions for the A-wing being small are all based on the pilot. Is it not possible that the pilot in the model is just wrong?

You know, just because it's the cited source, doesn't mean the source is right.

I honestly don't know what your issue is. But I can say that if someone were to report a couple of the posts you've made in this thread for personal attacks and cursing, you'd likely get a 3 day vacation.Simple fact is you can't win this argument, because I don't care . You're debating something I'm no longer even discussing or care about in the least.I don't care what size the A-Wing in the movies was. I don't care what images you have to back up your opinion. I don't care if you could produce a signed letter from George himself saying a A-Wing is 4m long or what ever.LFL has said that a A-Wing is 9.6m and so FFG made it 9.6m. That's the only thing that matters, and nothing you can do or say will change that. Based on the data that FFG was given even if it doesn't match up with the movies, the A-Wing is the size LFL says it should be.

I did report him he's out of order.

Their not in scale at all.

Everything is now equal canon as long as it is canon.

All things might be equal now, but all of the old sources are no longer canon. The old EU is gone, and with it goes any reference to the 9.6m a-wing.

Also like I said before for all we know there couldve been a intent to have a uppercase A-Wing and a lowercase a-Wing blocks very sim to how Japan has a huge version of the F-16.

No such plane exists.

I also noted that the scale deductions for the A-wing being small are all based on the pilot. Is it not possible that the pilot in the model is just wrong?

It is theoretically possible, but not likely. Remember, the interior cockpit shots confirm the general size of the pilot figure in the ship model and scaling the pilot down enough to justify the 9.6m length would require the pilot to be about 1/2 to 1/3 of their actual size.

Everything is now equal canon as long as it is canon.

All things might be equal now, but all of the old sources are no longer canon. The old EU is gone, and with it goes any reference to the 9.6m a-wing.

Also like I said before for all we know there couldve been a intent to have a uppercase A-Wing and a lowercase a-Wing blocks very sim to how Japan has a huge version of the F-16.

No such plane exists.

I also noted that the scale deductions for the A-wing being small are all based on the pilot. Is it not possible that the pilot in the model is just wrong?

It is theoretically possible, but not likely. Remember, the interior cockpit shots confirm the general size of the pilot figure in the ship model and scaling the pilot down enough to justify the 9.6m length would require the pilot to be about 1/2 to 1/3 of their actual size.

All the past works are still canon, two important SW writers have said this. One is working on Rebels right now. One of them, I think the one that works on Rebels, said that when h news about Legends came out the fans misunderstood the announcement, I think LFL retracted there statment after the backlash but whatever. Its all canon until shown otherwise and even then one of the writers said it could just be he fine details that are noncanon. The other writer, they created Thrawn and. Mara Jade said they would repair any inconsistances that may happen involving the new stories.

Also you can look up the F-2 Viper Zero its made by Mitsubishi sorta...

You know, just because it's the cited source, doesn't mean the source is right.

I honestly don't know what your issue is. But I can say that if someone were to report a couple of the posts you've made in this thread for personal attacks and cursing, you'd likely get a 3 day vacation.Simple fact is you can't win this argument, because I don't care . You're debating something I'm no longer even discussing or care about in the least.I don't care what size the A-Wing in the movies was. I don't care what images you have to back up your opinion. I don't care if you could produce a signed letter from George himself saying a A-Wing is 4m long or what ever.LFL has said that a A-Wing is 9.6m and so FFG made it 9.6m. That's the only thing that matters, and nothing you can do or say will change that. Based on the data that FFG was given even if it doesn't match up with the movies, the A-Wing is the size LFL says it should be.

I did report him he's out of order.

You would.