They most likely had some basic idea of how big an A-Wing should've been and at some point decided to give it a hard number.

Except that's not necessarily true, because some RPG author said the ~17-19km Executor was only 8km long despite clear movie evidence otherwise. Did they have any good reasons for the 8km number? Nope, they just decided that's what they were going to publish. And finally LFL conceded the obvious and fixed the mistake based on that film evidence. So unless you have some evidence that the a-wing was intended to be larger I think we can dismiss this as just another EU mistake.

Frankly this whole thing is the epitome of a academic argument, that in the end means nothing and changes nothing.

If it's so meaningless then why do you keep posting? Honestly, "none of this matters anyway" is always the last resort of the losing side when they know they have no real argument left.

Again, perspective. The a-wing is closer to the camera than the x-wing, so it's going to look larger relative to the x-wing than it actually is. To properly comapre the two you either need a clear shot where the models are the same distance from the camera and there are no other perspective issues, or you need to scale them based on common features (in this case the pilots).

As I have already said, in the gif posted above, the A-Wing is entering the shot at the same time as the X-Wing. Putting them at the same distance from the camera. If perspective is having any effect it is to make the A-Wing look SMALLER than it actually is in those shots.

Plus, this isn't just case of some scenes getting it wrong. The ship models show a tiny a-wing, the interior cockpit shots confirm the a-wing's size relative to the pilot, and nothing in any other movie source shows a large a-wing. The ONLY place the large a-wing appears is in non-movie sources.

As several of us have been saying for dozens of posts now, the size of the ship models in the film compared to other ships that are at the same distance from the camera look consistent with the ship models in the game.

The model of the a-wing that was used in the movie includes a visible pilot,

And that visible pilot makes the A-Wing look to be around 8-10M long, as I mentioned something like 2 pages ago.

As I have already said, in the gif posted above, the A-Wing is entering the shot at the same time as the X-Wing. Putting them at the same distance from the camera. If perspective is having any effect it is to make the A-Wing look SMALLER than it actually is in those shots.

They are not at the same distance. There are two a-wing/x-wing pairs:

The first one clearly shows the x-wing entering the shot first, followed by the a-wing.

The second one has them enter too close to tell, but remember that this is not a square image. The x-wing is closer to centered horizontally, while the a-wing enters from the left side. So if the a-wing is following just behind the x-wing we should expect them to enter the shot roughly simultaneously. And that's what we see.

As several of us have been saying for dozens of posts now, the size of the ship models in the film compared to other ships that are at the same distance from the camera look consistent with the ship models in the game.

And, again, those film shots are not as conclusive as you think. You have perspective issues to deal with, a moving camera, etc. All you can get is a rough approximation that the a-wing and x-wing are in the same general size range of "single-pilot fighter".

And that visible pilot makes the A-Wing look to be around 8-10M long, as I mentioned something like 2 pages ago.

No it doesn't. Look at this picture with scale lines drawn:

You can argue a bit about the thickness of the pilot's helmet and whether 8" is a perfect approximation for the size of a head, but that still won't get you to the 8-10m figure. You'd have to have a massive cartoonish 16-20" head to get to that point, and that's clearly not the case.

You know, just because it's the cited source, doesn't mean the source is right.

I honestly don't know what your issue is. But I can say that if someone were to report a couple of the posts you've made in this thread for personal attacks and cursing, you'd likely get a 3 day vacation.

Simple fact is you can't win this argument, because I don't care. You're debating something I'm no longer even discussing or care about in the least.

I don't care what size the A-Wing in the movies was. I don't care what images you have to back up your opinion. I don't care if you could produce a signed letter from George himself saying a A-Wing is 4m long or what ever.

LFL has said that a A-Wing is 9.6m and so FFG made it 9.6m. That's the only thing that matters, and nothing you can do or say will change that. Based on the data that FFG was given even if it doesn't match up with the movies, the A-Wing is the size LFL says it should be.

Simple fact is you can't win this argument, because I don't care.

Then stop posting. People that genuinely don't care about a subject don't keep reading threads about it and posting long replies. As long as you continue to participate in this discussion it will be clear that you really do care about it, and "I don't care" is nothing more than the last resort of someone who has no better argument.

Based on the data that FFG was given even if it doesn't match up with the movies, the A-Wing is the size LFL says it should be.

And the simple fact is that LFL is wrong. The fact that FFG just did what the IP owner told them to do doesn't make the a-wing the correct scale. It just means that, like the problem with the Executor, LFL allowed an obviously incorrect number to get into the EU.

And you know what? The EU is gone now by LFL's own policy. The only canon example of the a-wing is ROTJ, and that movie shows a tiny a-wing.

As A-Wings don't actually exist I'm thinking this debate could continue to spiral downward forever, especially when half of the debate refuses to believe numbers from the creative entity that imagined it in the first place.

In the end what does this come out to? Being able to claim FFG doesn't make things out of scale anymore so X-Wing sucks? Will people leave the game in droves because FFG broke their "promises" of keeping things relatively in scale? What will the result be out of deciding whether the A-Wing is in scale or not?

How about this: The RZ-1 A-Wing as we know it is 9.6m. Meanwhile, the Preceeding R-22 Spearhead can be the 4.8m A-Wing to help differentiate the two (Since an R-22 is basically indistinguishable from an A-Wing otherwise). That way Small A-Wings are R-22s, and larger A-Wings are proper RZ-1s, and both were present at Endor.

As A-Wings don't actually exist I'm thinking this debate could continue to spiral downward forever, especially when half of the debate refuses to believe numbers from the creative entity that imagined it in the first place.

Except it isn't from the person who designed the a-wing, it's from a corporate licensing department that gave "official" status to a random number someone invented after the movie.

In the end what does this come out to? Being able to claim FFG doesn't make things out of scale anymore so X-Wing sucks? Will people leave the game in droves because FFG broke their "promises" of keeping things relatively in scale? What will the result be out of deciding whether the A-Wing is in scale or not?

Why does there need to be a purpose before we can say that the scale is wrong? It's wrong whether or not you personally feel that the error matters.

In the end what does this come out to? Being able to claim FFG doesn't make things out of scale anymore so X-Wing sucks?

It is as I said a completely academic argument, one that will change nothing.

Even if you could prove that the A-Wing in XWM is the wrong size, because LFL has it wrong. The most anyone could say is that FFG picked the size based on bad data.

Unless anyone honestly thinks FFG should of told LFL to sod off and make it the size they think it should've been. Maybe LFL got rid of all the models they used to shoot RotJ and so the models FFG had as examples weren't the same scale as the ones used for the movie.

It still doesn't change the fact that FFG used the size and scale that they had to. So it's really a moot point.

Thank you for existing, iPeregrine. We need more people like you.

You know, just because it's the cited source, doesn't mean the source is right.

I honestly don't know what your issue is. But I can say that if someone were to report a couple of the posts you've made in this thread for personal attacks and cursing, you'd likely get a 3 day vacation.

Simple fact is you can't win this argument, because I don't care. You're debating something I'm no longer even discussing or care about in the least.

I don't care what size the A-Wing in the movies was. I don't care what images you have to back up your opinion. I don't care if you could produce a signed letter from George himself saying a A-Wing is 4m long or what ever.

LFL has said that a A-Wing is 9.6m and so FFG made it 9.6m. That's the only thing that matters, and nothing you can do or say will change that. Based on the data that FFG was given even if it doesn't match up with the movies, the A-Wing is the size LFL says it should be.

That's what you sound like right now.

EDIT: Also, mod-wielding? Threatening? Hah. You know that just makes you look even worse than me, right?

No, you are all succeeding in making yourselves look pretty rediculous. So congratulations on that, I suppose.

Any way you look at it, FFG used the [wrong] figures from LFL and probably didn't have much of a choice, so I don't think they can be faulted for it.

The TIEs are not scale either

Look in the back of the X-wing rulebook if you want to find out just how certain FFG are that the TIE fighter isn't off.

The only canon example of the a-wing is ROTJ, and that movie shows a tiny a-wing.

^^RotJ^^

How about this: The RZ-1 A-Wing as we know it is 9.6m. Meanwhile, the Preceeding R-22 Spearhead can be the 4.8m A-Wing to help differentiate the two (Since an R-22 is basically indistinguishable from an A-Wing otherwise). That way Small A-Wings are R-22s, and larger A-Wings are proper RZ-1s, and both were present at Endor.

Headcanon doesn't really factor in when discussing film scale facts. If we both agreed to make it twice the size of an AT-AT that wouldn' make it so.

The A-wing in the film shots is no thumbnail A-wing: it's in FFG scale to the X-wings or pretty close.

The A-wing where we can see the pilot however, quite clearly doesn't match that based on the many analyses Peregrine's provided.

The film A-wing can't be externally to scale with the X-wing and the pilot internally to scale with the A-wing at the same time.

Sounds like the EU being a total mess. I'd be convinced it was a simple giant A-wing problem were it not for the giant A-wing in the film shot above.

We have beaten the A-wing scale thing to death numerous times before. It is not to scale, it may be scaled off a movie model which was not built to scale with the other ships. As for your scale armada a-wings, green squadron is shown below.

.

. .

If you are old, put your glasses on!

Every time I poke my head in and read a little bit of one of these threads all I can picture is Ben Affleck explaining to Jay and Silent Bob that people are talking about fictional characters on the internet, not them.

If we had the old kenner toys, where each of them had the action figure, You would see the clear size difference between the a-wing and xwing. the same with the lego models. The A-wing is about the size of the front section of a y-wing. That is clear when you use a human for reference, and this should simply be obvious. It has been hashed out several times on these forums before, nothing more to add this time around.

EDIT: Also, mod-wielding? Threatening?

I have no intention of reporting you. I was just giving you a friendly warning because I generally appreciate your posts and wouldn't want you to get into trouble with all your personal attacks and swearing on the form.

In the films the A-Wing is much smaller than the Y-Wing and X-Wing

I would say that based on those images on page 2, the A-Wing isn't that much smaller. Not anywhere near as small as some people are claiming.

People say that the A-Wing is about the size of the wedge at the front of the Y-Wing, based on that image that's not even close to true.

I couldn't really tell from those shots, them all seemed to be from behind.

OK, we're edging into the realms of TL:DR again. Doesn't at least one A-Wing (and, incredulously, a Y-Wing if I recall correctly) fly inside DS2? Surely somebody less lazy than I could find some shots of the same area of tunnel with the different ships in it, for conclusive proof?

That is assuming they were both there in the original Jedi, who knows how the scale changed at later dates...

Well LFL is f*cking wrong.

Well there we go then. Captain Lackwit know more about how big a A-Wing should be then the people who made it. Despite the film evidence to the contrary. Because looking at the gifs which is much more conclusive then anything I've seen so far it does look like it should be 9.6m.

Bottom line is this.

LFL says the A-Wing is 9.6m long. So FFG made their model the size that LFL said it was.

So there is no reason to argue the point because even if you could prove for an absolute fact that the 9.6m size is wrong by producing a real A-Wing or a spec sheet from LFL saying it's something other then 9.6m it still wouldn't change the size FFG had to use.

So Im going to take my own advice and run.

LFL are NOT the people who made it. This inordinate respect for bloody lawyers and committees is absurd. It's a work of art, the artist can sell the rights, change his mind, wish things were different, say they are, whatever he wants, but what was in the art is fixed, and that's what matters to a lot of people. What was in the original work of art.

Edit: made my first sentence bold cos I thought it was an important point.

Surely somebody less lazy than I could find some shots of the same area of tunnel with the different ships in it, for conclusive proof?

Yes actually they show it in that DSII - Danger Zone video posted here.

Surely somebody less lazy than I could find some shots of the same area of tunnel with the different ships in it, for conclusive proof?

Yes actually they show it in that DSII - Danger Zone video posted here.

Yeah, just stop a few seconds too soon doesn't it?

This makes me want to have a Star Wars Fest.

Heh, would finish watching them and think "wasn't I meant to keep an eye out for something?"

Yeah, just stop a few seconds too soon doesn't it?

So it doesn't show it? I was too distracted by how awesome it was to pay attention to the little details.

Yeah, just stop a few seconds too soon doesn't it?

So it doesn't show it? I was too distracted by how awesome it was to pay attention to the little details.

SO YOU ADMIT IT'S LITTLE?!

SO YOU ADMIT IT'S LITTLE?!

Honestly from that video it looks to be nearly the size of an X-Wing to me. It takes up nearly as much space... But that doesn't really matter, not when it comes to XWM the game.

Right or wrong, LFL has set the official size of the A-Wing at 9.6m long.

FFG had to use the official size provided by LFL, because they own the license and have final approval.

So unless you can show that FFG had another option open to them for the size of the A-Wing then how big the A-Wing is in the movie is a moot point. Unless you can convince LFL to change the canon size and then get FFG to reprint them at that size.