If Falcons didn't exist, how would you counter Phantoms?
If Swarms didn't exist, how would you counter Falcons?

I'm open to more versions of the questions as well

Phantom? Easy: Good piloting. OFC, it's easier to outfly a phantom with certain lists and ships, but I've seen Wes, Wedge and Hobbie beat a Whisper + mini swarm before.

If good plays didn't exist, then how would you counter bad plays?

Phantom? Easy: Good piloting. OFC, it's easier to outfly a phantom with certain lists and ships, but I've seen Wes, Wedge and Hobbie beat a Whisper + mini swarm before.

And i would also use the same build to beat the falcon, put opportunist on Wedge and maybe outmaneuver on the others and unload a crapload into the falcon without its defensive tokens on, so i dont care if i'm at long range.

Or i would try it with an interceptor list

If bacon didn't exist, how would you counter eggs?

(c'mon, we were all thinking of how to bring bacon/breakfast into this conversation... I just did it first.)

Falcons? Lots of cheap ordnance carriers loaded for bear, or as many 3 attack dice ships as I can fit.

Phantoms? PS10 ships with movement shenanigans.

The problem isn't that these specific lists are difficult to counter, it's that by the time you know exactly what you'll be facing in a competitive (or often even a friendly) environment you'll already have committed to a particular list or build. It's also quite difficult to adequately prepare for and counter both at the same time.

Which is fine, because that's where flying skill and experience comes into play.

If bacon didn't exist, how would you counter eggs?

(c'mon, we were all thinking of how to bring bacon/breakfast into this conversation... I just did it first.)

If Firesprays didn't exist, what would you use to counter Lack of Awesome?

If bacon didn't exist, how would you counter eggs?

Livermush or Breakfast Sausage.

If bacon didn't exist, how would you counter eggs?

(c'mon, we were all thinking of how to bring bacon/breakfast into this conversation... I just did it first.)

Flour, sugar, cocoa, butter and coca-cola.

If 360 Weapons didn't exist, I'd---

Who am I kidding, I use Interceptors to solve all of my problems anyway.

If Firesprays didn't exist, what would you use to counter Lack of Awesome?

Y-Wings, Squints, and Bisons

The best way to counter falcons is other falcons. Phantoms can be beat with good asteroid placement and good flying.

OP,

The number of hard counters to Phantoms currently released; makes this a silly juxtaposition.

OP,

The number of hard counters to Phantoms currently released; makes this a silly juxtaposition.

That's a strange use of a semicolon.

OP,

The number of hard counters to Phantoms currently released; makes this a silly juxtaposition.

List some. The only one used competatively these days is the Fat Falcon.

I've never seen Phantoms as being in need of a "counter" so much as good placement of asteroids and your squad. Just forcing it in between asteroids really chumps down its de-cloak options and makes it incredibly predictable.

Whisper in particular never struck me as much more than super-Soontir, only she/he costs the same 33 base(w/ VI) as Soontir (PTL & stealth) before taking all the necessary upgrades (such as ACD) that make it more reliable (same green dice + focus generation even after losing action, for example). Once you break out of that bracket with all the shiney crew and system upgrades, it starts costing enough to justify being silly imo.

Without swarms, the best counter to Falcons would be patience and the hope that your opponent will eventually outgrow the oversized training wheels those turrets happen to be mounted on

To counter Fat Falcons, Outmaneuver lists. Take away his one defense die and he gets no 3P0 roll.

If good plays didn't exist, then how would you counter bad plays?

Crazy plays.

OP,

The number of hard counters to Phantoms currently released; makes this a silly juxtaposition.

List some. The only one used competatively these days is the Fat Falcon.

Almost any control element will do; Phantoms hate being ionized and they hate being stressed. Almost anything with PS9+, an acceptable dial, and the ability to reposition will do it. Almost anything with a turret will do it, including Ion Cannon Turrets (a twofer!) and the upcoming Blaster Turret + R4 Agromech combo.

The Falcon is used competitively because it's familiar, it's very good, and it's a Phantom counter. People aren't using R3-A2, Flechette Torpedoes, Gold Squadron + Ion Cannon Turret, Kath + Marksmanship, etc. because they're less familiar and/or more situational.

Kavil + Blaster + Aggro + V.I is going to be brutal for everyone at a mere 31 points, Phantoms included

Everyone but Carnor, that is

To counter Fat Falcons, Outmaneuver lists. Take away his one defense die and he gets no 3P0 roll.

Only works if every ship has Outmaneuver and you don't ever shoot at Range 3. Otherwise 3PO can still trigger.

That being said, 3PO is massively overblown as a contributor to the Falcon's success. Mathematically it's a 5/8 of an evade action.

If Falcons didn't exist, how would you counter Phantoms?

Pilot skill, ion mechanics, stress mechanics, Roark Garnet, blocking, the other turrets, pump so much firepower into it the green dice fail...

If Swarms didn't exist, how would you counter Falcons?

I don't see how you can make a swarm not exist when it's such a broad term. If you mean no TIE fighters or Z-95s then use B-wings and X-wings. You beat a Falcon by outgunning it, it beats you by dodging your ships so that you can't focus it down.

List some. The only one used competatively these days is the Fat Falcon.

Everyone forgets this little piece of glory that showed up at Worlds.

If mother in laws didn't exist how would you counter domestic tranquility?

Everyone forgets this little piece of glory that showed up at Worlds.

I honestly think R3 on the right Pilot (Hobbie, Porkins) is a steal. Couple with Flechette n' Failsafe for 2 stress a turn, for no stress on you. Goodbye Phantoms and Falcons!