So the new game is billed for up to Six Players. And, one of the recurring problems we've had is that 3-player Melee is terribad.

http://i.imgur.com/wycQ33A.jpg

So, here's what I'd like:

1. Master of Laws
2. Master of Whispers
3. Master of Coin
4. Hand of the King
5. Regent
6. Lord Commander
7. Master of Ships (as per Aurane Waters)

Well, on version 1.0, the Influence Title was the Hand of The King. Most of the time I played melee it was one of the last chosen Titles. Most decks dind't needed the influence, and the ones that did usually had it on table before needing the Title (until the Red Keep became restricted, at least). And I always thought that was not Nedly since the Hand of the King is the number 2 man on Westeros (sometimes number 1). So I believe they'll make the Title a lot more desirable and a lot stronger. Or they could simply put the effect as "Exchange Titles with target player (limit once per round)" and see what happens.

yeah, no big surprise that HotK will need reworking since Influence is going away. Maybe +2 Reserve Value or something.

If there are seven Titles, they could alternately represent the new gods for more of a "Faith of the Seven" feel. Pray to whichever aspect whose guidance you need on a given turn.

1. The Mother

2. The Crone

3. The Smith

4. The Maiden

5. The Father

6. The Warrior

7. The Stranger

In that order, and with benefits corresponding to the above Titles. I imagine that for flavor, there could be an option on a given turn to "keep the old gods" and abstain from selecting a Title, if the situation arises in which no available Title would benefit you given the player relationships provided by them.

Total disagree with 3 player melee being bad. This is the format i play the majority of the time and it is fantastic. Obviously you have to take into accunt the different dynamics and you get situations where two gang up on one but to me that is part of the fun. Knowing when to time your runs makes it for me a beautiful format to play and alot of strategising and negotiating.

I wish that influence was still a factor as i think it added to the strategy of the game and only hope the streamlining dosent make this an ABC for Thrones..

Total disagree with 3 player melee being bad. This is the format i play the majority of the time and it is fantastic. Obviously you have to take into accunt the different dynamics and you get situations where two gang up on one but to me that is part of the fun. Knowing when to time your runs makes it for me a beautiful format to play and alot of strategising and negotiating.

I wish that influence was still a factor as i think it added to the strategy of the game and only hope the streamlining dosent make this an ABC for Thrones..

Are you playing 3-player melee casually? Because it can definitely be fun casually. Competitively it can be rotten as two players ganging up on another is a huge deal when it comes to gaining points for tournament advancement.

The problem with 3-Player Melee is that it's not a balanced experience. Initiative can turn into an "I Win" button especially on alternate rounds, when the person who *needs* to be attacked grabs whatever title they need to keep themselves safe from at least one of the opponents, and so the give and take and dealmaking is completely undercut because you can't do what needs to be done to keep from losing.

We don't use the titles in 3 player matches. That is our solution

Yeah, I have to agree that three player melee is pretty bad. It inevitably turns into 2 on 1 in a way that isn't really fun or exciting.

I've been wondering myself what they might do about multiplayer. I personally really love the titles, and would just like to see a tweak to Hand of the King to ditch the influence. +2 reserve sounds solid.

What I'd really like is to see the tournament rules bump up to a few 5 player tables instead of down to 3 player if things don't work out to an even multiple of 4.

What I'd really like is to see the tournament rules bump up to a few 5 player tables instead of down to 3 player if things don't work out to an even multiple of 4.

considering they're billing the new game as for up to six players I wouldn't consider that unlikely at all.

Yeah, I've been pushing for them to re-do 3 player tables for a long time now. It's even worse with Myrcella or Varys, which can functionally be a complete "I win" button in a 3 player table.

Total disagree with 3 player melee being bad. This is the format i play the majority of the time and it is fantastic. Obviously you have to take into accunt the different dynamics and you get situations where two gang up on one but to me that is part of the fun. Knowing when to time your runs makes it for me a beautiful format to play and alot of strategising and negotiating.

I wish that influence was still a factor as i think it added to the strategy of the game and only hope the streamlining dosent make this an ABC for Thrones..

Are you playing 3-player melee casually? Because it can definitely be fun casually. Competitively it can be rotten as two players ganging up on another is a huge deal when it comes to gaining points for tournament advancement.

Yes always for fun. I understand why competitevely it is problematic but with a couple of mates it works well.

at my meta we used to take 3 titles and for the second round choose the remaining titles

and it worked just fine

at my meta we used to take 3 titles and for the second round choose the remaining titles

and it worked just fine

That's what you're supposed to do (as it is the official rule). The problem is, in rounds with only 3 titles, one player can have a huge advantage (or alternately one player can have a huge disadvantage), due to titles

I'm with Kennon on the 5-player tables, though hopefully, the new title selection will lead to fewer problems on 3-player tables (and the 2-on-1 can be always against the leader).

I would just like to say that I very much appreciate the Master of Ships replacing the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard as the Military title card. I always found it strange that the Lord Commander, a supposedly life-long title, could change hands each turn in 1E. All the other positions, with the exception of the Grand Maester and including the Crown Regent, change repeatedly over the course of the books (note that Ned Stark is technically Regent for one night and loses that position the following morning).

Now that the rules are up, I'm curious what the reaction to the new Melee changes are, namely:

• Significantly reduced Str boost during favoured challenge type (now +1, was +3).
• Titles are picked in secret. No more selecting a role to prevent a particular player from challenging you.
• No more defending for a player that your title supports, you are simply to unable to initiate a challenge against a player whom your title supports.
• Removal of a single random title (2 in the 3-player game), unknown to all players, before selection. This prevents the 2nd player knowing exactly what role the first player selected.
• Different effects on a few titles, no more Lord Commander title.

The 2nd point seems like a biggy here, that was definitely a strategy in the previous iteration, now you don't know who picked which title. Picking earlier seems better now, as you know which role is removed (in 4 or 5 player games).

Now that the rules are up, I'm curious what the reaction to the new Melee changes are, namely:

• Significantly reduced Str boost during favoured challenge type (now +1, was +3).
• Titles are picked in secret. No more selecting a role to prevent a particular player from challenging you.
• No more defending for a player that your title supports, you are simply to unable to initiate a challenge against a player whom your title supports.
• Removal of a single random title (2 in the 3-player game), unknown to all players, before selection. This prevents the 2nd player knowing exactly what role the first player selected.
• Different effects on a few titles, no more Lord Commander title.

The 2nd point seems like a biggy here, that was definitely a strategy in the previous iteration, now you don't know who picked which title. Picking earlier seems better now, as you know which role is removed (in 4 or 5 player games).

Probably not a whole lot, since basically all of that was already included in the melee article , a ways back.

However, there are a few (new) gems; the scaling of removing titles for 3-6 player games, the fact that the Crown Regent's redirect bypasses supports.