In case you missed it, it's on twitch, ffglive-> past broadcasts:

http://www.twitch.tv/ffglive/b/586727040

(1:10 hour mark)

So what did you think of the game? I only saw a few comments in the other threads, and instant reactions from the live game. Having slept on it, I think there were a few deciding moments (DISCLAIMER: I am well aware that it was a long day and both players were probably tired, congratulations to both of them are in order since they got this far undefeated, they are fantastic players. The following opinion is not meant to criticize any play, but is meant to get a better understanding of what happened and what could have gone differently)

Please refrain from posting balance-related replies.

Asteroid placement: I think this was the most important point of the game, and this is also the part that I don't understand at all, since both players seem to have put asteroids favouring Paul's Han. I have watched this part 3-4 times and I still don't understand. Why would the phantom player (Morgan) continue the zig-zag-ing pattern that doesn't allow any decloaks and is very difficult to pass with a 4-Tie formation, but allows Han to thrive? You could actually see in the game that as soon as the Imperial player entered the asteroid field, Whisper had 2 decloaks blocked (laterals) and the mini-swarm was forced to break formation. You might argue that Han barely fit with that 4 straight, but a 3 straight would have fit perfectly with room to spare.

There's also the question of the first asteroid. Why put it in the center? I'm really curious if he had a special plan in mind.

Deployment: Having all the asteroids in the center, not knowing where the Z's are, where should the mini-swarm deploy? I get that the deploying in the middle is more versatile, but in this case it sets you up either to go straight into the asteroids or go the long way around, neither option looks good from this angle.

Undershooting the target (aka bank towards Han doing 4 forward and boost): I think that what Han did was a bit unexpected (a 3 forward, then boost left was very safe play in my opinion), but I also don't think Morgan's move accounted for future turns. The banks were very nice and the formation entered the asteroid field nicely, but there was not room to turn right on the next turn to continue chasing Han, so any damage done to him would have been for nothing. Maybe he thought Han would do a 1 hard right? This would probably have won him the game, but I don't think any Han player would do that. Banking left with all fighters would have got him very good shots on the bandits, maybe it would have been better. Why do I say undershooting? 1 hard right on the academies would have left them in a better position to shoot at Han *for this particular move*, albeit it wouldn't have been a very good move for all other possibilities.

Honestly this is as far as I will go, because after this the game was lost. The crowd cheered for that 4 forward, but it was also the moment where the position became impossibly difficult for the Imperial player, getting caught in a pincer in the asteroid field with no clear turns, no way to maintain formation, no way to get a decent shot the following turn.

What are your thoughts on this? I am well aware that previous attempts I had at starting conversations failed miserably, but I genuinely want to discuss the game as it was played the first few turns (again, please, no balance talk, I am sick of it)

When I saw the asteroids go down I thought "Oh, neither of them can go through that." Then after the falcon moves it is very obvious that he has at least one path through, maybe 2. I don't know how to counter someone who can move that precisely. Those asteroids were about as tight as they could be.

It's very hard to judge how a big ship moves through the asteroids unless you play them a lot, because the base is much larger than the template. Final position might be easier to judge, but seeing where the template will go and whether or not it will touch the asteroids is difficult. It also means that if you know what you're doing, maneuvering through a tight asteroid is still doable with a large ship.

Anyone want to talk about actually putting down asteroids that hurt Han? Doesn't seem like there are many. He has too many movement options.

Actually it becomes much easier when after a few tries. Give it a go.

Shuttle has the worst time. Its much easier when you dont have to worry about your bearing or being limited by your choices.

Really, the Falcon shouldn't have that good of a dial. Best in the game. Whyyyy?????

And why is the Shuttles so crappy? Ugh. FFG fix your older ships!

Asteroids that hurt Han are asteroids that aren't there! So put them somewhere else, where he can't use them!

Are the complete lists out yet

Are the complete lists out yet

Check Major Juggler's thread http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/125842-2014-worlds-results/

Yep i agree that it seemed that Morgans play selections didn't account for future turns. But i think it's due to the fact that Paul always had several threatening moves on him where then Morgan had to minimise the risk level. Like the turn when Han made that 4 straight.

Sure banking towards the bandits would have been a better option, but what if hand chose to turn 1 right... Morgan would have been trapped. So i understand why he wanted to prevent that from happening and turned in on the falcon. He could have chosen another maneuver tho (making longer banks or hard turns), which would have set him up for a better turn next round...

And i also would have set up my whisper differntly, maybe right across of his bandits so Paul would have to think twice if he turned them in on the Ties.

All in all it seemed that Paul had the upper hand from the beginning and executed his plan from start to finish almost perfectly. As of Morgan he always only could react and never really could put some pressure on Paul which made the impression that he had not a good strategy at all (no offense here), which is understandable after such an intense gaming weekend.

But i also think that some more luck on the first dice rolling on Morgans behalf when he shot with whisper at the Talas, right after the ties turned right out of the asteroid field, (turn after hans straight 4) could have made the game more interesting.

I like to think I've got a good grasp on the game, but asteroid placement still seems random and I'm not sure how to set up to benefit me. Though, I pretty much only hit them if it's a conscious decision. I can fly these ships well, attacking is a different story.

I like to think I've got a good grasp on the game, but asteroid placement still seems random and I'm not sure how to set up to benefit me. Though, I pretty much only hit them if it's a conscious decision. I can fly these ships well, attacking is a different story.

Back when I started playing X-wing I used this (you need a BGG account to open it). There's also an article Paul Heaver wrote about placing asteroids, you should check it out here. There are other guest articles by Paul Heaver and others, you should check them out, they're really worth the read.

I'm hoping that the Nova Squadron guys interview both Paul and Morgan soon. **hint, hint, nudge, nudge**

Thank you chill

All interesting points and thoughts. I just hope this thread doesn't go the way of the Team Covenant thread that got removed due to all the negative posts.

Cheers

At first when han went into the asteroids I thought paul made a mistake. He left his 3 Z-95 open with no way to get back to them for at least 3 rounds. But the imperial player took the bait and went after him. That for me was the deciding error. He should have just let han maneuver his way through the asteroids and then around them again, focussing his full imperial power on those z-95's. Instead he choose to split his formation and went through the asteroids himself. From that point on he was fighting an uphill battle. He made one final error with the phantom, when he was blocking the falcon for a couple of rounds but then went straight, but at that point it already didnt matter anymore. There was no way to block until the end of time, so either way, sooner or later he would have to give up doing that.

Thank you for posting it! I had an obligation right when the game was starting the other day. Watching it now!

I though the asteroid placement in the final was very similar to that of the Flight 2 game of Sable vs Typo. Offset, two rocks deep, cutting the board in half between the two players. A similar thing happened that match with a 4 straight followed by a boost by the Falcon leaving the Tie Bombers with no shots and no clear path through the rocks to turn back into Han.

Not that I'm criticising, Sable and Morgan are both top, top players, but it looked like they had a plan and it didn't work out. I'd be interested in knowing what their plans were, both their rock placements and planed initial engagement, and what they learned from the resulting games.

I agree that Paul put Morgan in difficult situations and there were no good options in several moments because of Paul's maneuvering. I have the feeling that Paul just had a very good play, forcing Morgan into worse and worse positions, which should be the mark of the great player.

My opinion is that forcing the opponent into increasingly bad choices is something we haven't seen in a finals so far. Compare this to last year's final, where both players were arguably very well positioned but luck tilted a bit in Paul's favour ( I hope this isn't controversial, I remember Dallas' impeccable turns with his 6 ships, Paul weaving brilliantly through the asteroids, Howlrunner being one-shottted at range 3).

It wasn't the final of last year - when it comes to nail-biting - that is for sure.

I have to admit I was a bit spoiled with this year's Worlds broadcast as I got to share it with several members of NOVA Squadron (via chat) as we watched and analyzed the game as it happened. (I love being part of the podcast!)

A couple of things I noted (with a lot of help from the rest of the team) included the asteroid placement. It seemed to us that Morgan inadvertently helped Paul out with his placement of the rocks and Paul played on that early to help lore him into the rocks. Paul used Han as bait to draw him into those rocks and some of those TIEs never made it out.

That 4 Straight was HUGE! It was the trap snapping shut in reality as after that Morgan only ever got one clean shot on Han and the Talas were doing their job. Morgan was forced to play Whisper defensively and after those two TIEs went in the same turn it was an uphill battle from there.

Overall, it was an exciting game to watch and Paul is without a doubt one of the best players in the world. He has now proven it twice.

I can't wait to talk to him again on the post-Worlds show! Check it out.

It looked like paul caught morgan in something of a catch 22 at 1:35:00. If he didn't 3 bank his squad into the asteroids and turned to engage the Talas, Han would have Hard 1'ed to the right and approached out of arc. Instead Morgan moved for the block or at least R1 Fire from all his ships, maybe hoping to put a massive early hurt on Han when the Talas would have had ineffective fire. Unfortunately thats exactly what Paul was counting on, and Morgan got caught in the asteroids and ripped apart after his formation broke and those Talas tore into him. If morgan had instead 2-Straight or 1banked left then Barrel rolled he would have cleared the asteroids and gotten out of arc from at least 1 of the Talas and had everyone with shots. He could have crippled or outright eliminated Pauls support and then dictated the flow of the game.

To me, the best part of this match wasn't how good Paul's maneuvers were, it was how amazingly well Paul dictated Morgan's moves and then punished him for them.

Morgan went for Han when he should have gone for the Talas. Asteroid placement made for huge lanes on the outside. Should have set up a wide box so that he could cut through the middle with his squad as he needed to.

The Empire should have gone up the left side after the Talas, wiped them out and take the loss of a ship or two, then go after Han, but don't chase him. Fly, regourp to the open area and wait for him to come to you. I would've been a long play for a game but it was untimed.

Never chase a Fat Han, make him come to you.

Morgan went for Han when he should have gone for the Talas. Asteroid placement made for huge lanes on the outside. Should have set up a wide box so that he could cut through the middle with his squad as he needed to.

The Empire should have gone up the left side after the Talas, wiped them out and take the loss of a ship or two, then go after Han, but don't chase him. Fly, regourp to the open area and wait for him to come to you. I would've been a long play for a game but it was untimed.

Never chase a Fat Han, make him come to you.

I am not sure I agree with that. A Falcon with 3P0 and R2D2 is sort of hard to bring down in the late game, especially with TIEs where their two red dice really suffer. Your best option is to really focus fire on Han and get him down as far as possible when you are at the height of your firepower. The Talas you can almost ignore in the early mid-game to be honest.

I If Paul doesn't pull that straight 4, Paul is in trouble with basically Morgan's entire force to bear down on him. Where I feel the misplay was was after that, when Morgan broke off to face the Talas. I realize this would have meant turning his back on the Talas, but in the end once Han is off the board, the game would have been Morgan's to lose. Whisper does what Whisper does after all!

Overall, both players played their butts off to get there and there can only be one winner in the end. Paul got the upper hand early with rock placement and early maneuvering, and that was all he needed to pull out the big win! Two big whiffs on Whispers dice did not help Morgan's efforts at all!

Anyone want to talk about actually putting down asteroids that hurt Han? Doesn't seem like there are many. He has too many movement options.

Actually it becomes much easier when after a few tries. Give it a go.

Shuttle has the worst time. Its much easier when you dont have to worry about your bearing or being limited by your choices.

Really, the Falcon shouldn't have that good of a dial. Best in the game. Whyyyy?????

And why is the Shuttles so crappy? Ugh. FFG fix your older ships!

If you're complaining now, just wait for a few more weeks and the Outrider to hit the play table.

Not suggesting you're wrong or anything, just pointing out that the Outriders dial is crazy.

I would also love if the shuttle could fly just...a...little better. I keep trying to make that **** thing work to no avail for me.

I think Paul legally owns the 4 forward now.

I enjoyed watching that final match.

People need to start to accept that turret primaries are not going anywhere in this game.