In other words, the kind of people who put up with the warhammer game for a long time either LIKE having mechanics not really improve that much, or HATE the idea of having to learn a whole new system.

I have never been so in love with a setting that was mired in such terrible systems by the feedback loop between the developers and the fan base. That goes for tabletop and the RPG.

Semi-related question...

If I understand correctly (and perhaps I don't), Edge of the Empire and WFRP3rd ran on very similar systems. Does anyone have any insight as to why the former has been so successful and the latter was shelved after a 5 year run?

Possibly because WHFRP2's mechanics were pretty good, while most star wars RPGs have been borderline atrocious in the past.

Semi-related question...

If I understand correctly (and perhaps I don't), Edge of the Empire and WFRP3rd ran on very similar systems. Does anyone have any insight as to why the former has been so successful and the latter was shelved after a 5 year run?

Possibly because WHFRP2's mechanics were pretty good, while most star wars RPGs have been borderline atrocious in the past.

This.

Also, I suspect that the shelving of the WHFRP3 was at least in part due to the widescale insanity going on in the Warhammer Fantasy franchise at the moment.

Warhammer Fantasy is by far one of my favourite settings, and I'm sad to say that there'll probably never be a quality (official) Warhammer Fantasy RP. D:

Also, at least so far, the EotE-line of SW RP:s are decidingly less "board game"-y compared to WHFRP3. The only thing that stands out is really the custom dies.

And if memory serves, WHFRP3 was insanely expensive to get started with. I'm not sure how EotE compares in that regard, I haven't paid for either, that's just second-hand info.

Edit: Oh ****, 2006th post? I missed my own 2000th post? Nooooooooooo!

Possibly because WHFRP2's mechanics were pretty good, while most star wars RPGs have been borderline atrocious in the past.

Yeah. I mean the career system takes some getting used to, but I'd always be willing to go back to 2nd ed. the reason I never tried 3rd was dice and cards. That's just a personal issue.

My favorite star wars rpg however has been Saga. Love the character creation and advancement system.

My favorite star wars rpg however has been Saga. Love the character creation and advancement system.

This. Saga has bern (IMO of course) the best RPG WotC ever made. It had surprisingly few fules issues, and most of them were easy to fix (leaving only Condition Track and general number bias toward defense as only major issues).

Another thing that contributed to Edge's success was the large population of people already playing the older SW RPGs. SW hadn't seen a rules update in some time yet still had a solid following (podcast listenerships can attest to this), so when a new and improved system came out there was already a lot of people excited about it.

And if memory serves, WHFRP3 was insanely expensive to get started with. I'm not sure how EotE compares in that regard, I haven't paid for either, that's just second-hand info.

I couldn't find an equivalent product for WHFRP, but last time I looked into it the base box set was like $80. So yeah. Kind of a **** marketing job on that one, FFG.

I also remember one big complaint of WHFRP3 was that character abilities were on the cards that came with the game, and if there weren't enough of them you'd have a real hard time tracking who had what ability. Like, sorry Joe, Jon and James already have Magic Missile and there's only two cards for it. Can you take something else?

Another thing that contributed to Edge's success was the large population of people already playing the older SW RPGs. SW hadn't seen a rules update in some time yet still had a solid following (podcast listenerships can attest to this), so when a new and improved system came out there was already a lot of people excited about it.

And if memory serves, WHFRP3 was insanely expensive to get started with. I'm not sure how EotE compares in that regard, I haven't paid for either, that's just second-hand info.

Amazon has the beginner box for Edge at $25, that includes a rules summary (albeit simplified from the full rulebook), a set of dice, an intro adventure, and pre-made characters.I couldn't find an equivalent product for WHFRP, but last time I looked into it the base box set was like $80. So yeah. Kind of a **** marketing job on that one, FFG.I also remember one big complaint of WHFRP3 was that character abilities were on the cards that came with the game, and if there weren't enough of them you'd have a real hard time tracking who had what ability. Like, sorry Joe, Jon and James already have Magic Missile and there's only two cards for it. Can you take something else?

I think the issue was that the core set had "basic actions" every character would have and had a set for just three players, though one supplement included a second set. FFG had a printable handout with all the basic actions, though. Things like the basic actions for wizards or priests had one set in the core and one set in the suppememt, so you'd be limited in how many of those you could play at once. All of the special actions would usually only have one copy per supplement/core set. This can be frustrating if two players want the same action, but on the other hand it guarantees more of a variety in player abilities.

Just as an example of some fun/clever cards from the game, I'd mention that each card had a reckless side and a conservative side to be used depending on how the character was acting/what stance they were choosing for combat. A social card for interrogation was "Good Witch Hunter" on conservative and "Bad Witch Hunter" on reckless. A card for a class called the troll slayer (a dwarf only class whose goal is seeking honorable death) called "This will be a glorious death" just says on its conservative side "what are you doing in conservative you pansy?!" Cards are also able to have all kinds of cool effects, like extra damage, free maneuvers, causing status effects (which include cards of their own if you don't have them memorized) and more. The magic system is really great. If you roll a critical failure result on the dice (similar to a despair from Star Wars, but occurring more frequently in WFRP) you draw from a miscast deck with results like being petrified or what have you.

Isn't Star Wars also more well known because of the movies? I know plenty of people who don't know a thing about Warhammer Fantasy or 40k, but almost everybody I know have seen the Star Wars movies. It's easier to get people to participate in RPGs if they have at least some feeling/connection with the setting.

It is a much more expensive investment. £70 for the core set, with £30 each for the main expansions, with smaller ones being £10-25. This was due to the cards and the token stuff. If it had been more approachable I am sure it would have been more successful.

The cards and the tokens are actually very good (thinking of introducing the tokens back into Star Wars, for Stress at least). Tokens made it really easy to track certain things, and the cards basically had most of the rules you need in front of you.

Isn't Saga edition something like D&D 4,5? I read it a little bit, and I like the character creation system, but the combat system seemed weird.

I only played SW d20, and it was reaaly unbalanced. A single jedi was so op, that it was either a jedi/force users only group or no jedi group.

How about Star Wars d6? I heard it's one of the better systems in star wars rpg.

Isn't Saga edition something like D&D 4,5? I read it a little bit, and I like the character creation system, but the combat system seemed weird.

Isn't Saga edition something like D&D 4,5? I read it a little bit, and I like the character creation system, but the combat system seemed weird.

I only played SW d20, and it was reaaly unbalanced. A single jedi was so op, that it was either a jedi/force users only group or no jedi group.

How about Star Wars d6? I heard it's one of the better systems in star wars rpg.

I actually remember a friend lamenting how lightsabres were underpowered in d20 Star Wars, because their statline was 2d8 damage and HP was easily past 30 at low levels.

D6 is a lot more playable. It's literally been years, though, so I can't give you any details without rereading the rules, sorry.

If you played Jedi in d20, lightsaber damage increased with jedi lvl, so at higher lvls you did something like 7d8 or more with crit from 17 or less with form VII, dealing dmg straight into wounds which were equal to Con = dead.

It was what DnD 4th really should have been (saga). Personal opinion.

I played Saga once, was the guy with a bullet machine gun...somehow was a better char than the 3 Jedis we had with us that were all for not doing anything..

but seriously- how did the chat went fomr Dark Heresy to Star Wars?

I played Saga once, was the guy with a bullet machine gun...somehow was a better char than the 3 Jedis we had with us that were all for not doing anything..

but seriously- how did the chat went fomr Dark Heresy to Star Wars?

It's easier to talk about something else.

Exactly, when all else fails, talk about something that a lot of people can appreciate.

If you played Jedi in d20, lightsaber damage increased with jedi lvl, so at higher lvls you did something like 7d8 or more with crit from 17 or less with form VII, dealing dmg straight into wounds which were equal to Con = dead.

That actually seems a bit more sensible than my friend made it seem. Perhaps they simply did it wrong when they tried it out. Happens with folks new to a system.

Isn't Saga edition something like D&D 4,5? I read it a little bit, and I like the character creation system, but the combat system seemed weird.

I only played SW d20, and it was reaaly unbalanced. A single jedi was so op, that it was either a jedi/force users only group or no jedi group.

How about Star Wars d6? I heard it's one of the better systems in star wars rpg.

I actually remember a friend lamenting how lightsabres were underpowered in d20 Star Wars, because their statline was 2d8 damage and HP was easily past 30 at low levels.

D6 is a lot more playable. It's literally been years, though, so I can't give you any details without rereading the rules, sorry.

The lightsaber in the new FFG star wars has a quality called Breach or something that basically scales it as a ship class weapon, meaning that it would ignore 1 armor on ship, but would ignore 10 armor AND toughness on a character because ship class weapons multiply damage by 10 against human scale targets. This also neatly allows it to cut through doors and so on easily.

11 pages of the naysayer's taking turns on why they don't like the game has become old and stale really quick.

11 pages of the naysayer's taking turns on why they don't like the game has become old and stale really quick.

Cool, go read something else then.

Cool, go read something else then.

Query, what's different between me asking complainers to post this stuff elsewhere as to you asking others to not read complainers complaining?

Cool, go read something else then.

Query, what's different between me asking complainers to post this stuff elsewhere as to you asking others to not read complainers complaining?

Just report and Ignore. It's really the only option with some people.

Cool, go read something else then.

Query, what's different between me asking complainers to post this stuff elsewhere as to you asking others to not read complainers complaining?

Very little. You wanted to shift the conversation (to what was unspecified). This guy just felt the need to voice his dissatisfaction with the conversation. Neither post was particularly constructive but his was much less so.

edit: I'll also point out that this guy sh!tposted in two threads, asking why the mods hadn't closed the other one.

So who else played a Saga character with a bullet firing gun instead of a blaster?